Chance me for T25s as an international Middle Eastern junior (who’s cooked)

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics:

For a bit of context I’m applying as a pre-med hopefully to become a Surgeon. I’m applying as an international student (Middle Eastern middle class girl). I hopefully aim to get into a T20 (Yale, Georgetown, Columbia, UMich, etc.) school with financial aid, what do you think my chances are? & what schools do you think I’m likely to get into?

Academics:

4.0 UW GPA

Still taking the SATs but 1500 estimate for now

No APs or Honors because my school doesn’t offer them. Our yearly coursework includes 12 subjects every year including English (Literature & Grammar), Arabic, French, Bio, Chem, Physics, History, Religion, Physical Education, a math subject (Alg 1 for 9th, Alg 2 for 10th, Calc 1 for 11th, Calc 2 + Stats for 12th).

Extra Curricular Activities so far:

  • Founder & Executive Director of my own non-profit organization. We make community events & projects & donate a big portion of the profits & use the rest for more events & projects.

  • A sector of my nonprofit. A 7 episode podcast with some of the most influential & incredible women from mainly Arab countries. After each episode they contribute something that is meaningful to them & with the help of sponsors & investors we also gather hygiene supplies such as pads, clothes, childcare items, etc. We put everything together into boxes to donate to women’s shelters.

  • Finance & Enterprise Manager of my team in the global Formula 1 in Schools program. Dedicated 15+ hours/week for 5+ months. Raised over $8000 to promote sustainability and motorsports. I gained experience interacting with different companies, sponsors, & public figures such as Formula 1 drivers. Connected logistics with communications.

  • Had the privilege of mentoring 400+ high school students in applying to the most prestigious college prep program in the country for 6+ months (reviewed essays, offered tips & advice to hundreds of students, etc.). Connected with students & created meaningful relationships with them for months. Learned to interact with all sorts of different people.

  • Interned at Georgetown University for Advanced Medical & Public Health for a summer in DC.

  • Koding With Klossy web development program/camp scholarship awardee

  • Co Director & Producer of an upcoming documentary on the next financial crisis (sponsored by a university in London, supported & supervised by a professor from that university, first documentary by only youth in my country)

  • Director of Community Service in my school. Organized community service trips with local charities & universities, oversaw all high school students’ analytics for service work, accumulated 100+ hours myself.

-Working in marketing for local volunteering organizations.

  • Brand consultant for small community businesses & nonprofits.
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Be aware that getting into a US medical school as an international student is far more difficult than the (already difficult) task of getting into a US medical school for a US citizen or permanent resident. @WayOutWestMom may have more details.

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International student faced very long odds when seeking to attend a US medical school.

  1. In 2023, only 143 internationals were accepted into all US MD program combined. Approx. 85% of those 143 internationals were Canadians. (More med schools will accept Canadian students than other internationals. Canadian students are eligible for guaranteed loans from their government to attend med schools in the US.)

  2. Only 48 US med schools will even consider international students for admission. The majority of those 48 accept 0-2 students/year. (Mostly in-house applicants from their own undergrad.) Fewer than 10 accept 4 or more international students/year. Those are among the most competitive med schools in the US. (For US students, that is.)

  3. International students are placed in a separate admissions pool at every med school and compete against other international applicants for a handful of available seats.

  4. International students are expected to fund 100% of the cost of their US medical education. They are asked to place at a minimum into a US bank escrow account an amount that will cover the cost of tuition and fees for the first 2 years. (Typically around $250,000. Some med schools also require funds to cover a student living expenses since med students are not allowed to work during med school. Still other schools expect the student to cover the cost of 4 years of med school before being allowed to enroll.)

  5. International students are not eligible of MSTP programs (fully funded MD/PhD), Because MSTPs are funded by the US government, only US citizens and permanent residents may apply.

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Hi! Thank you so much for this info. From what I understood, you’re referring to medical school, so after undergraduate/premed. Do you have any information on premed or undergraduate university studies? My chances with my current work, any schools that might fit my situation & needs? Any sort of scholarships or aid I can get as well!! Also as a current high schooler, my academics for what my school offers are stellar & my extra curricular activities might be enough to boost my application, is there anything else I could do to boost my application enough to reach for a need blind school such as Yale? Thank you so so much!!

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Yes, my post was about US medical schools. You mentioned pre-med and wanting to become a surgeon.

Pre-med is a list of classes required to fulfill med school admission requirements, but pre med is not a major. Most pre-meds major in biology, chemistry, biochemistry, neuroscience or biomedical engineering because these majors have the biggest overlap with the required courses for med school.

What is your intended major?

And what do you plan to do with your degree? Medical school in the US is a very, very remote possibility. (And an impossible one unless you can pay for it with your own family’s finances.) Will you return to your home country to study medicine there? Will a US undergraduate education allow you to enter medical school in your home country?

How much financial aid will you required to attend a US university?

There are only 5 US universities that are both need blind and meet full need for international students. Yale, Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Amherst.

Need blind means the amount of financial you need will not be considered when deciding whether or not to accept you. Meets full need mean the university will provide 100% of the aid they calculate you will need to attend their school.

Yale is need blind and meets full need for international students, but its acceptance rate for internationals is in the low single digits. It’s a reach for everyone, moreso for internationals

Georgetown is need blind for admission but, has extremely limited financial aid for international students and recommends all international applicants should plan on taking out private loans to attend this school.

Columbia University meets 100% of need for international students, but is need aware for international students. That means the amount of aid you require will affect you chances for admission.

University of Michigan is need blind for international applicants , but has extremely limited financial aid for international students and recommends international students should plan on taking out private loans to attend this school.

There are a limited number of other universities that are like Columbia–need aware but will meet your full need if you are accepted. And there are many universities that are need blind for internationals but provide no or extremely limited financial aid.

If you can tell use your major and give a idea of you level of need, maybe posters can suggest some colleges for you.

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It is not a R1 research university like your other schhols, but Washington and Lee University will also meet your need if they admit you. They have an eclectic mix of international kids, so I think they are quite intentional about admitting international students.

I think what posters are concerned about is where you would go to medical school if you can’t in the USA. Your home country? Would a US degree be a negative then?

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Here is the list of undergrad schools that are both need blind and meet full need for all accepted international students:

Here are a handful of universities that are need-blind for all students and meet full need, regardless of citizenship or immigration status:

Amherst College
Harvard
Yale
Bowdoin
MIT
Brown
Princeton

And starting fall 2025 Dartmouth

These are highly competitive for admission for international students.

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@Janaglobal where do you plan to go to medical school?

Where do you plan to practice medicine!

What country??

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“Premed” in the US is not in any way medical - it’s just a set of courses you have to take and get an A (or B …) in. You must also have a major, which can be literally anything (Music, Spanish, Political science, Gender studies, statistics plus any typical science major…) as long as you can take the premed pre-reqs alongside it (ie., not nursing for instance). In addition, you must get experience with people, it could be volunteering at a women’s shelter, working as an EMT…

If you’re high need you have 2 possibilities: colleges that meet need for internationals (need blind or need aware) or colleges that offer full tuition or full rides for high test scores.

Your odds are probably better if you do NOT apply as a premed. Public health or Women’s Studies may make more sense based on your ECs, would be less competitive, and do not prevent you from being premed.
The key question is, would med schools in your country appreciate your being premed in the US?

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If you want to go to med school, you are better off with the 6 year program in your home country.

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Hii, yess I’m so sorry for the confusion I meant that I’m a current international high schooler looking to pursue an undergraduate degree to be able to qualify or apply to a medical school. My major is undecided but it will be under the list of majors that are considered premed!

I’m just going to list a bunch of information that you guys might be able to help me with, since I’m very lost & pretty overwhelmed.

After I hopefully complete my undergraduate studies, if I won’t be able to go into a U.S. medical school (with either aid, scholarships, grants, or loans since there’s no way I could afford it) then I plan to go to either Europe or an Arab country which both do accept a U.S. undergrad degree (but if anyone has further knowledge please let me know).

I’m from Egypt & to my knowledge, my parents make around $120,000 per year combined (subject to change in later years since we live abroad in Saudi, if we move to Egypt they will make I think around $30,000 per year combined), I only have 1 little sister who will graduate in 2030

I have most of my family in the US, in the DMV, my great uncle & aunt went to Columbia for graduate school (journalism) (I don’t think it qualifies as a legacy though). My mom worked at Harvard Medical School for around 2 years, she might know some professors, but I don’t know what I could ask for from them while I’m here (I could probably travel for a summer if it would really boost my chances, but I need ideas on what to do).

Also I wanted to add that I’m an UPCOMING junior, so I still have a good year left to boost myself considerably, so please be brutal!!

I honestly really really want this, I’m ready to work as hard as I possibly can, so I’ll take literally any advice or brutal criticism!!

Thank you all so so much for all your support & concern!!

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Could you please elaborate on the last part? You mean like switch my major later on?

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Hi! Thank you so much, the 6 year program I’m my own country is of course my plan b, but I do really want to be near my family (along with other reasons), so I want to maximize my chances, especially since I do still have over a year left!!

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With your ecs, I would look into applying to schools with full ride scholarships like Boston College, Emory, little Ivies like U Richmond, and anywhere with a Stamps Scholarship. I was the UMiami scholars day and at least one of the Stamps scholars was an international student.

You’ll want to make sure that your essays are stellar, too.

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Based on @WayOutWestMom 's post #5 in this thread, getting into a US medical school as an international student and getting any funding (including loans) if you and your parents cannot pay list price (probably in the US$500,000 for four years range by the time you would be applying) is unrealistically tiny, so you may want to make your future education plans based on something other than trying to attend a US medical school.

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The problem is that even were you to get into a US school with funding, youhave little chance of med school in the usa.

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Yess, so what I’m saying is that after I get my undergraduate degree, I have options to either go back to an Arab country or go to Europe if a U.S. medical school is unattainable!!

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Hi! I know, what I’m saying is that I can use that degree to get into a really good medical school back in an Arab country or in Europe thats suitable for my needs if med school in the states is unattainable

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Realistically, is there a path to enter after your undergrad degree? Dont they standardly have a 6 yr program filling all spots?

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There are no premed majors. You should plan on applying to cairo U and any other programs in Egypt for entering med school as an undergrad. Once you finish, you can prob come to the US for residency.

You might get into a US college for undergrad with fin aid, but the Egyptian route makes the most financial sense for you. Do you think you can get into an Egyptian 6 yr program?

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