The list looks good to me except too many safeties IMO. I know at least some of your safeties do not require any additional effort (ie no essays or anything other than hitting "submit"so it really doesn’t hurt to submit them or help at all not to (except for the fee).
But even just considering the reaches and targets you still have at least a dozen schools that require supplemental essays. Some of them probably require more than one. It’s a lot. Last year my D24 applied to 16 schools, 11 had supplemental essays. Some required as many as 4 supplements. It was a lot. Even though she got in to her ED1, she had already written everything else. I suspect the later ones she wrote were not nearly as good and it was a good thing she didn’t end up need them!
He should ONLY do ED if he has a clear favorite school. Do not take chances into account. If Bowdoin is his favorite, why would he ED1 to Middlebury?
ED is a “be careful what you wish for” thing. He gets in ED1? He’s done. Better make sure it’s his tippy top choice and he’ll be ecstatic and happily ignore the rest of the schools.
He’s a fantastic candidate, you have no cost constraints, and he’ll get into excellent schools. Don’t try to game ED. Don’t get caught up in what his peers are doing. It should only be done for his clear favorite (that is also affordable). Don’t worry, he’ll have wonderful options since you’re ensuring his list is balanced.
I agree that ED is a binding decision that a kid should be comfortable with for sure. But these colleges “game the system” with ED (filling up more than half the class before RD) so considering the numbers is necessary IMO. Also, I could understand a kid who would be happy to go to either Midd or Bowdoin, for example. Of course, there may be reasons to favor one over the other (location, programs, vibe, food, etc.) but they do provide more similar than different experiences. It’s not like a large state school vs. a small LAC for instance, or rural vs city, or vastly different weather or vibe (though of course a student could have strong opinions about these issues at any school). So while I agree that picking an ED school for percentages only is not a good strategy, I understand considering the chances can be a factor in the process. So ColdWombat’s caution about ED is warranted, but I could see a situation where a kid may have a few “clear first choices” of type of highly selective LAC and use chance to help consider which one to apply to. I think my son did that when he got deferred from his ED1 school (Bowdoin) and applied to another school ED2, because he liked them both a lot and thought ED2 would help his chances, and it did and he was very happy at the ED2 school. They were both LACs, though in different regions, and provided what I would say to be more similar experiences than different.
Thank you for the different perspectives on ED. Our son has two clear, tippy-top favorites - Bowdoin & Midd. However, we are still visiting schools — Hamilton and Colgate in October, so the landscape may change. Will certainly keep y’all posted along the way!
Here’s a new issue for today—our son has three high school foreign language credits: Spanish (one year), Latin 1 and Latin 2.
He began senior year last week with Honors Ancient Greek …and he absolutely hates it. He has trouble with the pronunciations and foreign language just is not his cup of tea.
He is considering:
Toughing it out in Ancient Greek
Dropping it and taking an AP English or Math
Dropping it and taking a non-AP/Honors Elective
We see a lot of LAC recommending 4 years of language. How, if at all, do you think these options might affect his chances? I see value in taking more rigorous English or Math courses. I also see potential value in a less rigorous course that he enjoys.
Thanks for the continued feedback. It’s all been very helpful.
Yes, but like I said, he really doesn’t like foreign language. He gets excellent grades in them, but really dislikes them. After Latin 2 — which he hated — he was trying an alternative with Greek, hoping for more history/culture than conversation. But it has all been about pronunciation thus far, and is well turned off.
So completely a personal opinion but I think Greek 1 isn’t any more helpful than no language at all. If he’s happy with 2 years of Latin then I would just let him take whatever he likes.
I believe the previous poster is right though, if you’re primarily concerned with admission chances then Latin 3 would be the best call.
If Latin 3 is possible that would be the best plan. According to the Bowdoin CDS, 4 years of language are recommended (same language). It also considers academic rigor as very important.
You can check this for Midd and any other school by searching “school name” + CDS and reviewing sections C3-C7.
Just a statistical note, but while some colleges may enroll a majority of their students ED, they typically admit far more applicants in RD. The difference, of course, is that many of the RD admits enroll somewhere else.
Like if you look at that Bowdoin CDS, they admitted 276 ED applicants. Probably a few didn’t end up enrolling, but obviously most did.
They then admitted 879 total, so 603 not-ED. Well over twice as many, or in other words, ED admits made up around 31% of admits, non-ED admits around 69%.
But only 504 enrolled. Assuming, say, 270 ED admits enrolled, that leaves only 234 non-ED admits enrolling. So their non-ED yield was about 39%, which is actually really good. But still, thanks to that much lower non-ED yield, that almost 69% of admits who were non-ED became only something like 46% of enrolled students who were non-ED.
Anyway, none of this really tells you what your ED strategy should be. I just think it is important to note that even these sorts of colleges do in fact admit lots of applicants outside of ED. But then predictably a lot of those admits choose another college instead, because they can.
He would need to reach level 3 in Latin.
Alternatively, he could ask when the content of his Classical Greek class will move to learning rules, memorizing vocabulary, and reading sentences - typically, pronunciation is taught very very early on, before they’ve mastered enough grammar to read much, so there may be a focus on pronunciation early on so that they memorize the alphabet and its combinations better, before moving to short texts? I suppose he could make a case for Latin2+Greek1 form a cohesive whole wrt Ancient language&culture learning worth “3”.
I think that if he can do well in Latin 3 he should take it. Set your application up for success. The LAC’s want 4 years of world language. Also I agree if he would be happy at Middlebury or Bowdoin then pick the one you feel you have the best app and chance with. With Bowdoin do all the app components. The extra short answer and the video.
You can’t infer from your experience that Hamilton doesn’t care about units of FL. You can only say that it wasn’t dispositive in your case. Holistic admissions does that sometimes. OP, your results may vary.
My point is, proof by example is a logical fallacy, and there’s a lot of it on these boards. You can’t make a blanket statement using your experience, especially since there are further caveats, like the one you just invoked. You also can’t impose Hamilton’s standards to other schools. According to Hamilton’s CDS, they want 3 years of FL, that won’t necessarily translate to other places, though.
Yes, but this applicant only has Level 2 (Latin 2).
The difference is a bit like stopping Math after Algebra2 and stopping Math after precalculus.
Typically, it means taking FL through grade 11 and then making a choice, especially if you’re in a 6-period system.
A simple solution would be for him to write Admissions at all the colleges on his list (a list which is absolutely appropriate except for this), and ask point blank “I want to major in history, took 2 years of Latin and am now taking 1 year of Ancient Greek, but I see you expect 3 years in one languages, does that combination fulfil the foreign language units you expect?”
The combination Latin+ Greek+ History may be sufficient for several colleges despite the Level 3 or Level 4 requirement and at least by writing OP will know where it’ll be 100% fine and where it might not be.
Finally, unless this student is interested in Ancient Mediterranean civilizations, knowledge of a foreign language appropriate for the geographical area of interest is very useful. It can come with a semester abroad and archival research or data gathering for a Senior or Honors thesis.
Of course he could turn that around and write in the commona app’s “additional information” section sth like “I’ve become interested in -region- and will start -FL appropriate for that region- in college since it is not offered at my HS, then plan to study in -city where the college has its study abroad program- for my senior thesis” if it’s accurate and if the college offers said language.
Thanks for the feedback. In this stage of predicting the future it is comforting to read success stories like yours, particularly when they directly address the anxieties that we feel as parents of seniors.
I recognized your comments as they were obviously intended—not as proof of acceptance at Hamilton for all kids with three years of high school language; or as somehow suggesting that the failure to get 3 or 4 years of the same language upon graduating from high school is or isn’t a determinator anyplace else. It’s a data point—in a constellation of them on CC—and I found it to be quite relevant to my son’s experience.
I will add that he has chosen to stick with Honors Ancient Greek, and believe it does contribute to his driving interest in world history, and his curiosity about other cultures and times. FWIW he earned a Spanish High School credit by taking three years of Spanish in middle school. So he will present with 4 foreign languages, albeit in three different tongues. And if he loses out on a college demanding something different then so be it.
That’s a LOT of applications. Lots of logistics to manage, lots of things to stay on top of. I don’t think a kid needs more than two safeties…
Former Classics major here. You don’t get very far into culture, history, architecture during a HS Greek 1 course. Mastering the basics of the language is time-consuming. The very best “Classics” courses in college were the ones taught by famous professors-- in English. Standing room only. The language classes were a grind, even for highly motivated students of antiquity who typically already had reading/translation fluency in another ancient language.
I want to reaffirm you- Hamilton is pretty much a reach for everyone. But having 3 years of FL isn’t keeping anyone out. There are much more meaningful things the school considers.
I wouldn’t list the one credit in Spanish. (It’ll be in the transcript but I wouldn’t highlight it.)
It’s not adding units (like for English) but proficiency (level reached) so the one credit doesn’t add anything, and if you can paint a logical picture with Latin 1&2+Greek1 that, while it wouldn’t be equivalent to Latin3, does make sense, 1 credit in Spanish distracts from the narrative.
