Chance Me - SCEA Yale or ED Dartmouth - Social Sciences and Humanities, 3.7 GPA, 1570 SAT

Sewanee was probably recommended for its creative writing program. As support for this, this article (which, although older, I consider to be among the best of its type) included it with just nine other schools narionally:

I’ll note the regrettable omission of Kenyon from the article, however.

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Yes, I have visited schools (and I am actually visiting more right now!). For all of them I attended information sessions, campus tours, walked around and talked to students, etc. Since there were a lot of schools, I’ll just list them out like this:

Yale: love love love!! Has always been my #1; visiting only cemented that love more. Great programs, student vibe, campus, etc. 10/10

Brown: didn’t like it much before, but loved it after visiting. Great student atmosphere (I don’t want to be somewhere extremely competitive between students). 9/10

Dartmouth: didn’t like it much before, but could definitely see myself thriving in the environment after the visit. Didn’t feel too remote, but obviously also had the benefits of being a smaller, undergrad-focused college. Also had great programs for my areas of interest. 10/10

Georgetown (just visited today): Loved the programs + majors, location, and opportunities. Also, our student guide was super passionate and seemed like she adored being there. They talked about tons of cool things Hoyas do and it felt right. 9.5/10

Wellesley: liked it. Being at an all-female college environment was interesting and fun. 8/10

Barnard: liked the college and its partnership with Columbia, but didn’t like the campus or some of its programs. 7/10

Swarthmore: visited yesterday actually! Liked the curriculum and campus, but felt a little too remote and was also worried about not being able to find a job after graduating. 8/10

Amherst: visited and hated it. Students didn’t come across as passionate about being there. Felt totally wrong, curriculum felt stifling, too isolated/remote, etc. 0/10

Wesleyan + Vassar: might investigate more; I briefly visited Wesleyan but am kind of ambivalent about it. I don’t have a huge interest in Vassar.

As for size, location, etc. I don’t have any preference for size. In terms of location, I’d like to go anywhere that isn’t totally isolated (funnily, Amherst gave me that lonely feeling while Dartmouth didn’t at all). Social vibe - I guess everyone knows how to have fun! But I’m worried about that toxic competitiveness between students, which I really want to avoid after high school. That’s why Yale, Brown, Dartmouth, Swarthmore, etc. are more appealing vs. Princeton or UPenn. As for political climate, I think I’m fine being anywhere because I’m not going to take part in anything I don’t believe but I do think students using their voices is good.

Finally, for Georgetown today I talked to an admissions officer and they said my GPA (I gave them specifics) wouldn’t be a huge deal if there was an upward trend and the rest of my application was strong. I guess this doesn’t change the situation much but it was encouraging at least. Thank you so much and sorry for the lengthy response!!!

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Yes, I noted Emory and Sewanee for their combo of creative writing and Poli Sci/Policy strength.

OP also needs a realistic option - Brown, Swat, Amherst, Wesleyan, etc. are more of the same. Great schools - but where is the realistic route.

OP may (not sure) also have budget issues or may be planning for four years but not 7, even though that’s right now, their plan.

A school like Sewanee would come in more budget friendly - still too much.

But the note on Sewanee and Emory (a less reachy top school) were made because OP introduced Creative Writing. And from what I was told (at W&L), Sewanee kills it in DC.

Looking at your list - great that you are stopping kids and talking to them. That’s most important - getting a feel for the area, etc.

Barnard - based on comments, seems an easy removal.

Swat - what led you to the conclusion that their kids struggle with jobs? So does this mean law school isn’t an assured desire at this point?

Your list is so big - it’s great you can eliminate Amherst/Wes/Vassar - you have too many.

Echoing @NiceUnparticularMan - are you only visiting the super reaches? Then you are missing the most important schools on your list - the ones you might be most likely to attend.

You mentioned Rutgers, Pitt, Charleston, AU - or whatever they were - make sure you are visiting those. These are these most important schools - and some of them will track interest.

Most, if not all you mentioned, do not track demonstrated interest. Nor have merit aid (if it matters).

FDS 2023 Report (uconnectlabs.com)

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Are you visiting lots of possible Likelies and Targets too?

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Does your HS use Scoir, Naviance, or one of the other databases that have scattergrams showing actual admission results from your HS? If so, please use those. Does your HS have a history of sending unhooked students outside the top 10% to elite schools?

While your ECs are strong, they may not enough for the schools you seem focused on. I echo those suggesting that you visit less selective schools with the idea of loving some of these schools too. Good luck.

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For Swat, most of the kids go to graduate school and they didn’t talk about jobs at all. This wasn’t a huge concern for me but it was for my parents, which is why we’re reconsidering Swarthmore. I also visited these schools:

Rutgers New Brunswick: Liked it!! Super friendly students, passionate, lots of opportunities, and good food :slight_smile: 10/10

American: Liked the environment, campus sort of mid, students were nice + great location and programs for my interests. 8.5/10

Also, I’m not sure about Barnard. I still feel interested in it and would still seriously consider attending if I were accepted.

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My HS uses Naviance. For some schools, like Cornell, we are a feeder. Last year out of maybe 60 applicants, ~15 were accepted to Cornell. Same for NYU, Boston University + College, etc. I can’t see the deciles on Naviance, but my stats put me typically at the range of accepted students or a little under (above for some schools, like BU). As for schools like Dartmouth, we previously didn’t have many students accepted but had one last year (ED) who I personally knew. While her GPA and SAT were good, she wasn’t extremely remarkable in anything else. She was more well-rounded, likely with great recs and essays.

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Yes! I will be doing more visits as the summer progresses

I also know a girl like me in the grade above at school (HS class of 2024; Asian, female, not legacy/donations/athlete/first generation, etc). She was super strong in writing and got in with a writing + econ major. She wasn’t in the top 10% when she applied; her SAT score was 1530. She also had several Bs and failed a couple APs. She got deferred from Yale EA and accepted into UPenn, Dartmouth, Brown, Georgetown, JHU etc. RD. I think her ECs were less strong than mine and our academic stats are about the same (except my SAT is obviously higher). Any thoughts on that? Thank you!!

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She failed AP classes and had those results? I’m not buying it. Do you mean she passed the AP classes but did poorly on the AP tests?

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If that is all so far, I’d definitely make a point of visiting more Likelies/Targets.

Ultimately at our feederish HS we aim for kids having something like 5-7 total Likelies/Targets, of which at least 2 are Likelies (it can be more than 2 of course). Ideally all of them would be 9.5-10/10 schools, meaning schools that are very good fits for you in particular which you would be excited to attend.

And it looks like Rutgers is one, which is great. American, on the other hand, sounded like it was OK but not at that level for you. And American is a problematic Likely/Target in cases like that because they are really big on demonstrated interest and in the past have waitlisted high numbers kids I know about where it sure seems like they are just not convinced the kid is really enthused about them.

So again just based on what you have reported here, to me that sounds like that is one Likely/Target down, 4-6 more to go.

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Barnard - If you don’t like the campus and need to be somewhere for four years, day after day, given your list is unrealistically long, seems an easy removal to me. In my mind anyway.

Per the report I posted 2.5 times the Swat grads go to work vs continuing education. Are your parents basing a conclusion on rumor or fact ?

Yale, by the way, is the same. 58% of people working and a similar percentage in grad school.

You have to eliminate schools so if you eliminate Swat I get it - but make sure your family has accurate data and not perception.

Swat too remote ? Forget (not that you were looking) Sewanee. I didn’t find Swat remote at all but to me, which doesn’t matter, then your note on Dartmouth makes little sense.

Based on what you wrote, definitely get to Pitt (maybe too big) and Charleston. They may be more your flavor in regards to safeties. Of course if you like Rutgers, Pitt won’t be too big. You might like Syracuse too (Maxwell School is strong).

Wow you are hitting a lot of schools. That’s great.

https://ocs.yale.edu/outcomes/

I don’t necessarily want to get down in the weeds on all this, but I note Swarthmore basically has a train station on campus that will take you to the center of Philly in like 30 minutes.

But the immediately-adjacent commercial area is a little small (although it does have a nice mix of stuff).

Personally I think that makes it very well-located, but I also get that some kids want more that is directly walkable.

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Swathmore’s suburban campus offers proximity to several historic East Coast cities, however.

Swarthmore places 63rd in “career outcomes” in this analysis, which may partly reflect the choice of its graduates to pursue a diversity of paths:

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I echo the advice of others that you need to visit schools that are matches and safeties for you; not just the reaches. I disagree with other advice that Wesleyan and Vassar are “more of the same” if you were to consider them for ED, and could be matches for ED.

On Georgetown, I think you probably will not want to apply EA; the admission rate is almost the same as RD (and that includes all of the 100% admitted recruited athletes, which are many of the EA applicants at Georgetown). So the question will be whether you want to use ED1 or ED2 shots elsewhere or take your RD chances at Georgetown, which will be a lot more likely in RD than the Ivies and uberselective LACs. D22 did not use any ED shots at all because Georgetown was in her top two and the other school did not have ED.

Let’s go back to fit. Other than prestige and academic programs, what is important to you re the other 50-70% of your life in college? Fit is particularly important for LACs; most of them are not “for everyone”. Location, demographics, size and political climate will greatly affect your happiness and probably success.

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I recommend you discuss that with the college counselor at your school, who will know what actually happened there. Stats and outcomes in my family’s experience are not always what peers say they are.

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Agree with @MYOS1634 at post #7. Normally a 3.7 would be a big red flag for schools like Yale and Dartmouth, but AO’s also consider grades in the context of rigor and tends. The awards should catch the AO’s attention so that they will do a deeper dive on the grades. LoR’s will be critical to support the EC’s/Impact.

SCEA Yale based on on focus and interest. EA or rolling some good publics. The results will tell you the mix of reaches, matches and safeties to apply RD. A deferral from Yale tells you you are in the ballpark. Acceptance by a good public eliminates lower personal ranked schools. Rejects tell you to reconsider if you have shot too high.

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Op wrote this….reason enough to not move further given an already too long list. Imho

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Yeah, not to be overly anecdotal, but my S24 got a Yale deferral, admission to Pitt, and admission to St Andrews (basically also rolling) in the early rounds. It was comforting to have those two admissions, and then his counselor agreed the Yale deferral indicated he was on track to keep going with his RD strategy. And he did not in fact get into Yale, but he got into a variety of great colleges RD to choose between.

The point is just that while there is not much reason to think Yale SCEA gives you any sort of boost, it is in fact potentially useful information, as are rolling admissions applications. And hey, you might actually get accepted–one of our HS kids did, and actually more an EC superstar than academic superstar (although also a legacy), and then she was done.

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Agree, and thanks for pointing that out, but I do think OP would have a good shot/match at ED at LACs with that general level of selectivity (Tufts, Hamilton, Colby, Bates) if a good fit; that was my main point in bringing those up.

I am a bit concerned about Ivies and uberrejectives for OP in view of GPA and overall profile, and not applying under a STEM major. I sensed a very strong preference for STEM female applicants at those in the last two cycles at our school which seems comparable to OPs in placement (virtually exclusively STEM major applicants for the less than perfect GPAs).

But OP needs to provide more info on fit elements.

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