Chance My Junior Daughter: Small Northeast LACs [NJ resident, 3.8 GPA, psychology, dance]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics:

  • US domestic
  • New Jersey
  • Well respected and highly ranked public high school
  • Female / white

Personality:

  • Studious but well balanced
  • Enjoys learning for learning sakes
  • Heavily involved in the arts, in and out of school
  • Quirky
  • Artsy
  • Outdoorsy

Intended Major(s):

  • Psychology (major)
  • Dance (minor)

(interested in dance movement therapy)

Academics:

  • UW: 3.8 / W: 4.0
  • Rank: Unavailable (top 25% would be my guess)

Coursework:

  • Honors English track
  • Honors World Language track
  • Five APs (highest level students generally cap at ~7, school has ~20 available)

Test Scores:

  • SAT: Not expecting it to be competitive enough to submit
  • APs:
    • Psychology (A/4-5 anticipated)
    • Environmental Science (B+/3-4 anticipated)
    • English Literature (senior year, TBD)
    • Human Geography (senior year, TBD)
    • French (senior year, TBD)

Awards:

  • National Honor Society
  • National French Honors Society
  • National Dance Honors Society

Extracurriculars:

  • HS Anti-Bias Coalition / Gender & Sexuality Alliance (9-10th)
  • HS Dance Program (9th-12th, choreographs and performs in 4-5 performances twice annually)
  • HS Dance Team (half time performances / 10th: member, 11th: junior lead, 12th: senior lead)
  • HS Bracelets For Change (fundraising / 10th: member, 11th: lead, 12th: lead)
  • Local Theater Company (major roles in performances, 3 per year, 9-12th)
  • Local Dance Troupe (major role in performances, 2 per year, 10th-12th)
  • Guitar Lessons (9th-12th)
  • Summer job as a camp counselor (9th-12th)

Essays/LORs/Other

  • Strong writer, expecting strong essay
  • Strong relationships with teachers, expecting strong LORs
  • Will likely submit a dance supplemental to add depth to application

Cost Constraints / Budget

  • Minimal constraints but of course would be happy with any merit

Schools (will likely EDI/II and EA wherever possible)

  • High Reach: Bates, Wesleyan
  • Reach: Richmond, Skidmore
  • Hard Target: Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison
  • Target: Connecticut College, Franklin & Marshall, Dickinson, Bard
  • Likely: Hobarts & Williams Smith, Muhlenberg, Ithaca

Are the high reaches really out of reaches? Do the groupings feel right? Other schools to consider? ED I/II strategies?

First time parent going through this process with their kids (and gosh have things changed since I applied to colleges) so any and all feedback would be welcomed.

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I think you have the schools pretty well categorized and think your daughter would have some choices from this list. I don’t think any of these schools offer EA but ED/EDII is available at most/all. In terms of budget, make sure you are comfortable with spending around $80-90,000 per year as that is the cost of attendance at many of these schools. Bates, Skidmore and Wesleyan do not offer merit so if you do not qualify for need-based financial aid you’d be paying the full cost of attendance there. I mention this because people are often surprised at exactly how expensive it is - $350,000 is a lot to spend on an undergraduate degree and it’s better to know the possible price going in.

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Check out Macalester, which is probably a reach or hard target. They also have EA and good merit, which is nice.

If she really likes Bates/Wesleyan, she should apply ED. Being full-pay could help.

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Agreed. Even considering recruited athletes and other hooked applicants, small LACs really like ED and chances are definitely boosted by going ED.

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Edit: As I was writing, I see some others posted similar on the $350K. Apologies for the redundancy.

As an fyi - you don’t need awards per se and Honors Societies aren’t awards - they should be activities.

So most schools likelydon’t give them value unless you did things with them. In other words, are they doing service projects, etc. that make them impactful.

So the chance me part:

So a 3.8 UW and no test - with decent but not the highest rigor.

Are students capped at 7 - because with 20 offered, it seems like some would be in 10-12. But there is some rigor.

It’s just a chance me - so please realize - not an AO - and with the little info I have - it’s how I see it:

Bates possible ED but not RD. Wesleyan unlikely. Neither gives any chance of merit. So assuming you are full pay - you are $350K and climbing and for a psych degree - which likely means grad school or uncertain job prospects - so just making you aware.

And you have to take TO for what it is - we are back at many schools, that it’s a disadvantage - 76% of Wes submitted - per the CDS.

But ED gives you a better chance at these places.

Richmond no

Skidmore - reasonable reach. Only 38% submitted tests. But again, it will be $350K - and no merit - are you ready for that because you note happy with any merit - and a lot is out there!!

Your three hard targets are all reaches.

F&M you have a chance - especially full pay - and CC too. Likely Dickinson and Bard as well. F&M just started doing merit - but very little. I know a recent student that was high caliber didn’t get into Bard…so maybe it’s not as easy as I think.

Likely list - yes to all three - Hobart, Muhlenberg, Ithaca (odd choice with the rest of the list).

ED should only be used - if:

  1. You truly want that school - 100%

  2. You are willing to pay for said school - run the NPC but assuming you are full pay, assume full price

You do not have to ED - it’s a choice. But for a school like Bates - it is clear it helps.

So here’s a question -

if I said - you could go to a SUNY Geneseo for under $40K or a Kalamazoo or Wooster or Allegheny type for $40-$K vs. $85K to your top schools - which would you choose?

Multiply those amounts x 4 so you’re maybe $200K differential.

And you’re likely getting a degree that requires grad school - and it’s unlikely to matter the undergrad school you went to - which would you choose?

Because you have to factor all that into - should I ED? Once you ED, there’s no going back - but yes it gives you better odds.

And when you say - * Minimal constraints but of course would be happy with any merit - is why I’m asking the question.

It’s easy on paper to say - I’ll pay for school but once you are writing that check 2x per year - not so easy!!!

I do think there are acceptances here and some reasonable reaches but most the list will be tough gets.

Just my opinion.

But - I also think you have to really think about finances before you can consider an ED.

And you need to ensure the student visits, gets a feel for, etc. the campus, before you can consider an ED.

Too many use it to game for acceptance - and that’s troubling because they have to be on campus four years, day after day after day - and it’s most important they are at the right place, not the highest ranked place - especially when you’re going to be a psych major (in my opinion, not a great ROI out of undergrad).

Best of luck.

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Love the thinking and candor here, thanks so much!

100% aligned on all the feedback regarding cost. We’re fortunate to have had the foresight, discipline and frankly privilege to prepare for the cost of college. Nevertheless, it’s clearly a hefty investment. I like your note regarding the other schools, will bring those into the conversation.

100% aligned on all the feedback regarding ED.

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I second Macalester as a possible addition to your list. Could be a reach/hard target. You might think about St. Olaf, as well, which would be more of a soft target/likely, and would allow opportunities to register for classes at Carleton. If your daughter is willing to consider all-women’s schools, definitely check out Bryn Mawr and Mt. Holyoke. Both offer merit (I believe – MHC does for sure), and both are part of consortia that include coed schools, so it would be a not-quite-all-women’s academic experience. Same goes for Scripps, if California is not too far away. Scripps would really be like a co-ed school with all-women’s dorms, because it meshes pretty seamlessly with the Claremont Colleges. And if California is ok with you, check out Occidental. Closer to home, Sarah Lawrence should be a soft target or likely with generous merit.

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Thanks.

There’s a lot of other names that could work - was just throwing out a few examples.

Fortunately, I haven’t had to stroke those big checks but I’d have had a stroke if I did. I could afford it - but I didn’t want to afford it.

Actually, as WUSTL pushed me incessantly on ED, I asked what if I don’t like the offer. And they said - if you can’t afford us, we’ll let you out of ED. And I said - it’s not a question of if I can, it’s a question of - do I want to? And every full pay family really needs to have a deep conversation on that. Many say they will - but then put up the line like you did about merit - and that’s what gives me pause.

So before you make any decision on applying to any school - you really have to have that discussion - on what are we really comfortable spending.

So many have this: We’re fortunate to have had the foresight, discipline and frankly privilege to prepare for the cost of college But having and using are too different things - and only you all can determine that - and that’s step one. It’s a very personal decision.

If the answer is we don’t want to spend that - then you bring assured to hit budget schools but still leave some you have - like Connecticut - which has merit, etc. But you eliminate the Wesleyan and Bates because you have no chance.

Some people are willing to spend if it was x major…but not y major. So then you have to decide - is psych worth spending for? What’s the logical outcome? Work? More school - ie more expense? If work, what are the odds of pulling a salary to justify the expense, etc. These are all questions only you can answer. Well others can - but it’s your money.

If the answer is we’re good no matter the cost and major - then you keep your list - and if you’re open to others - Mac was mentioned a few times - and there’s many more - you could peruse. But even offering merit is a may get you there so then you find some that will 100% get you there. And depending on your #, they exist.

You have Muhlenberg and Hobart on your list. I’m not sure how much merit they give- but they’re in the range rank wise - that it might be decent. Certainly the mid western and southern schools give deep merit - and you could always peruse - say the muhlenberg chats, etc. or St. Olaf or Lawrence is another people have love for on the CC for artsy kids - and see - how are their kids doing merit wise.

But I think you’re off to a great start.

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Wesleyan publishes a pretty detailed class profile, with information on both admitted and enrolled students: Class Profile, Admission & Aid - Wesleyan University

Could be helpful as you assess your daughter’s options.

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Clark in Worcester, Mass., might be worth a look. Generous with merit, and I know kids with similar profiles who are very happy there. Maybe St. Lawrence? Also generous with merit, and definitely outdoorsy. My daughter, who applied to several of the schools on your list, applied there, and though we never got up there for a visit and can’t speak to the vibe on campus, we appreciated the personal touch in their outreach (handwritten note on her acceptance letter referencing her essay, etc). Good luck!

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Just seconding some ideas.

First, I would definitely look into women’s colleges if she is at all interested, in consortiums if necessary to reduce the gender issues. Off hand, to me a Bryn Mawr or Mt Holyoke just feels like a better fit than, say, Richmond. Wellesley and Smith also have great Psych departments, so I would consider them for high reach purposes.

Second, I would consider taking a deeper dive into possible targets and likelies in the Great Lakes/Upper Midwest region. The three “hard targets” you listed are really just the tip of the iceberg (no pun intended).

Others already mentioned Macalester, which has a very good Psych program but is a harder admit.

Kalamazoo, though, also has an excellent Psych program, and is actually a really cool school in general–an innovative curriculum with integrated study abroad called the K Plan, in a very fun college town they share with Western Michigan University, and they are not only a lot less hard of an admit, they have a robust merit program. But . . . no Dance. Still, maybe worth considering anyway.

St Olaf is in a similar category–very good for Psych, great overall SLAC experience, less of a hard admit with merit . . . but while they do have Dance, they don’t have minors. But again, maybe worth considering.

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I think your groupings look pretty good, and it seems as though you have a very balanced perspective on the college search process.

Seconding Sarah Lawrence. It also has a Master’s in dance therapy, so the faculty should be available to help your D further her interests in that area.

Another school your D may want to consider is Indiana University of Pennsylvania. It too has a dance therapy Master’s, but also has a pre-dance therapy certificate for dance majors and minors, along with other more niche areas related to dance. To provide a bit more context on IUP, this chart (source) shows the number of alums from these schools who went on to earn a doctorate in any field. Doctorates are not necessary, but they can be an indicator of something about many of the students who attend (intellectual curiosity and/or, ambition, though I usually go with the former).

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On this chart of public colleges in the mid-Atlantic states, IUP is right between SUNY Geneseo and The College of New Jersey, to give you some additional frames of reference. IUP and TCNJ both hav about 7k undergrads while Geneseo is a bit smaller with about 4100 undergrads. TCNJ doesn’t seem to offer any kind of formal dance program, but Geneseo does offer a concentration and minor in dance. There are a lot of outdoor opportunities at both IUP and Geneseo, too.

Some other schools that would fall in the likely/extremely like buckets that your family may want to check out that seem to have very strong arts offerings (in addition to regular subjects):

  • Baldwin Wallace (OH): About 2700 undergrads
  • Goucher (MD): About 1k undergrads and in a cosortium with other Baltimore-area schools like Johns Hopkins, Loyola Maryland, etc.
  • Hollins (VA): About 700 undergrads at this women’s college in the Roanoke area which is terrific for lovers of the outdoors. Mackenzie Scott gave them a $75M donation about 2 years ago.
  • Hope (MI): About 3300 undergrads and, from all reports on CC, just a super friendly and warm campus
  • Shenandoah (VA): About 2500 undergrads
  • U. of Hartford (CT): About 4k undergrads
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This is amazing. Thank you for taking the time on this.

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Agree - Bates and Wesleyan are reaches so would ED1. A few kids from my daughter’s school did get into Bates with similar stats (4.0-4.2 weighted and 5-7 APs) – but all through ED process. Psych/dance combo is a good match for either school. Good luck!

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Another school to check that has a strong psych program and gives really great merit and has dance opportunities (maybe not to the exact level of dance she is looking for though) is Washington college in Maryland. Really great sense of community and very involved professors. Cute town attached. A lot of the students fit the personality as you described your daughter.

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I saw that you have the three Ohio schools on your list, and they don’t seem to have been discussed much in the thread. I can’t really speak to your groupings, but it does seem odd to me that Richmond and Skidmore would be more difficult than Oberlin, Kenyon, Denison. I grew up in New Jersey and stayed in the Northeast for college and law school, so when we started putting a list together for our S19, it was initially very “coastal” except for a few EA schools (Trinity University in Texas, Colorado College). As we learned more about his preferences, I realized I was being stupid avoiding the Midwest, and we added in Denison and Kenyon. He ended up choosing Denison and graduated last May. It wasn’t necessarily part of his reasoning, but we the parents appreciated Denison’s very generous merit award. He double-majored in psychology and health, exercise and sports studies (HESS), and was very happy with both departments. He also looked at the dance program when making his decision, and, although, in the end he didn’t pursue dance, it is a neat department and might suit your daughter’s interests (some of the HESS classes might also interest her). The new Michael Eisner arts facility is terrific. Denison is located in a picture-perfect village that was founded by New Englanders (and looks it), about a half hour from Columbus, a growing and very vibrant city. I don’t know as much about Kenyon, which didn’t appeal to my son, but I’ve been there for track meets, and it is a beautiful campus. The two schools are only about 45 minutes apart, so if you visit one it’s easy to see the other. Oberlin is another hour and a half north . You don’t have the College of Wooster (half way between Kenyon and Oberlin) on your list, but it is another Ohio school that many people love, and it is an EA school. I am a big fan of EA, as having one or more acceptances in hand before Thanksgiving (or at least before Christmas) can really ease the pressure. We really liked Trinity in San Antonio, although I suppose people might be having concerns about Texas these days. Colorado College was gorgeous (quite a place for an outdoorsy kid) but a “no go” for our son, as he didn’t like the idea of the block program where students take only one class at a time on an accelerated schedule.

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I would add Union to your list (target). Generous merit and dance minor.
Also as an fyi, since mentioned above, my kid just received 40k/year merit from Hobart with lower stats than your daughter.

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I second checking out Clark in Worcester MA. Strong psych department and reputation. Not technically a SLAC but it feels and acts like one. My daughter is a freshman there and is loving it. We pay significantly less then the $64,000+ ticket price with very similar stats. Around 3,000 on campus but closer to 2,000 undergrad. Free masters in certain programs if accepted. Definitely quirky, urban vibe. We looked at a lot of the schools on your list too and she is happy she landed at Clark

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I agree with posters above who suggest the value of looking outside the NE. The college admissions “rat race” has mainly bypassed many strong LACs in the Midwest/Upper Midwest. An accomplished student like your daughter will find a straightforward admissions process, an excellent education, and a much lower cost at schools already mentioned such as St. Olaf, Lawrence, Wooster and Kalamazoo. I would also suggest Beloit.

Our S22 chose a college that requires a flight, and it has turned out much easier than expected. Chicago and Minneapolis are both airport hubs offering many inexpensive direct flights, and then these schools often run shuttles.

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So much great advice in here… thanks so much all. Learned a bunch, list and strategy enhanced as a result.

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