<p>I’m not sure even leaving his school will help. All those news stories about his father’s filing a lawsuit on his behalf will follow him on google/internet for his life. </p>
<p>Not too helpful when you’re facing admission officers, alums, and potential employers who aren’t inclined to admit/hire someone who is inclined to be litigious*…especially in an attempt to avoid what many would consider an extremely light punishment for actions which indicate serious issues with lack of honor/honesty, lack of sufficient work ethic, trying to take extreme unethical shortcuts, etc. </p>
<p>He certainly won’t be a shoo-in for colleges which have honor codes and take them seriously like my undergrad does…or careers which take character/ethics seriously in their professionals…such as law, medicine, banking, or military leadership.</p>
<p>At my school if you voice any objection to a teacher you’re sent to the principal and disciplinary actions are ensued. You then have to explain those on your college apps. If you cheat the worst that happens is you get a 100. So objecting to the homework isn’t really a valid option lol.</p>
<p>I recently read a NY Times article about a Chinese international student at UDelaware who openly admitted that she hired someone to write her admission essays. Do some of you really believe that colleges do not tolerate cheating? Stories such as those may actually encourage it.</p>
<p>Bay…How about we hold the students to the highest standards of behavior, especially in cases where they’re knowingly cheating? Exactly what would your argument be for this student? Do you honestly think they believed it was “ok” to cheat once, simply because there was an administrivia discrepancy between two documents?</p>
<p>I get so fricking tired of reading posts where we’re supposed to excuse the bad behavior of individuals for one crap reason or another. “Everybody does it”…crap. “The school is to blame because the policy is confusing”…crap. “You have to cheat to keep up”…crap (although you might have a future in professional sports). This student knew they were violating the school’s honor policy, and if it has long-term consequences for him…OUTSTANDING!! That’s one more spot open in whatever school he hoped to get into that an honest, hard-working, NON-CHEATING student can use.</p>
<p>Based upon the father’s actions in this situation, I can see exactly why this student thinks the rules don’t apply to him. Children who aren’t raised with a basic sense of what’s wrong and what’s right have no moral compass to guide them when they have to make decisions on their own…and this is what you get. Live with the consequences.</p>
<p>"Do some of you really believe that colleges do not tolerate cheating? "</p>
<p>Xiggi’s infamous “Kavya example” comes to mind. Harvard said essentially that the novel was not a factor in the admission decision and so they can’t dismiss her. </p>
<p>UPenn just last month was willing to look the other way about the dean with a non-existent Ph.D. from Columbia until the local newspapers made a big deal about it. In this case I think cheating would not have been the big problem but unwanted publicity usually has the bad impact. Think of those fresh out of college students who are the adcoms screening the applications who need to make the recommendations for the next step - how many want to recommend this kid who has been news for the wrong reasons?</p>
<p>There is no question that the boy cheated; he and his father admit that it happened. The only thing in dispute is the punishment.</p>
<p>Early on in this thread, I posted about our high school’s policy for breaking the rules, which I believe is reasonable. In a case such as this, the first cheating offense would result in a 0 or F on the assignment. Each subsequent offense results in escalated discipline, culminating in expulsion. The rationale is that we are talking about children; childhood and high school is a time to learn from one’s mistakes and not have one’s life ruined over the first offense, so long as the lesson is learned and it doesn’t happen again. I agree with this approach.</p>
<p>Bay…It’s personal preference which flavor of Academic Integrity policy is best. IMHO, I have no problem whatsoever with immediate dismissal from the Advanced Program for a first offense of cheating. If you prefer a graduated response plan like the one at your local school, that’s great. If a parent doesn’t like/doesn’t agree with a particular school policy, then work to change it. Attend PTO/PTA/school board meetings and voice your concern over the policy. Ask to get it modified if you don’t agree with it. If you feel strongly enough about it, enroll your child in another school or choose to homeschool.</p>
<p>What I won’t accept as an excuse is the student and at least one parent signing off on an Academic Integrity policy and then choosing to complain about the unfairness of it and sue the school over it after their little snowflake gets caught cheating. You want the students to learn some lessons in high school? How about “don’t sign a document agreeing to a policy you don’t understand or agree with”? How about “don’t blame others for your own shortcomings and faults”? Apparently, this entire family needs some refresher training in all these concepts. Had they actually read the policy before signing it, they would’ve noticed the “discrepancy” and could’ve asked for clarification. </p>
<p>If you want kids to learn valuable lessons in high school, teach them that actions have consequences. If you choose to skirt the rules, then hitch up your big boy pants and accept the consequences. By no means is this kid’s life “ruined”. Are there some schools that will deny him admission because of a disciplinary action on his record? Sure…and they’re completely within their rights to do so. Others may choose to overlook it if he provides an “I’ve learned from this” type explanation with his application. Who knows? But what lesson does this student learn by A) Cheating in the first place B) Trying to weasel out of the consequences he and his mother signed off on C) Watching dear old Dad pursue a frivolous lawsuit?</p>
<p>I don’t disagree with most of what you write, Wolverine. I abhor cheating, and I am a voice on this forum who encourages cheaters to turn themselves and cheaters in, if the facts are there.</p>
<p>I do not agree with your idea that if a student doesn’t like a policy, then he shouldn’t take the class or attend that school. If we were talking about a private school, I would agree with you, but we are not. Every student should be able to attend his/her public school and expect fair treatment, without having to be forced to sign an ambiguous document in order to take a class.</p>
<p>Why do they have this requirement to sign these papers only for this program and not the entire school? Is cheating acceptable once they go to the regular program? If the regular program kids cheat, what happens to them? Shouldn’t they have a uniform code of conduct for all students for cheating that is not specific one touted program?</p>
<p>How was he treated unfairly? He (and his mother) signed the policy statement!! If they were aware of a discrepancy they should’ve asked for clarification before signing. If they weren’t aware of any discrepancy, then they knew that cheating would result in dismissal from the class. It’s the same policy every student at the school agrees to. That, by definition, is fair. If this student is allowed to skate on the punishment simply because Daddy decides after the fact he doesn’t like the policy…THAT would be unfair to every student in that class/that school that adheres to the policy.</p>
<p>Apparently the boy did not understand the policy in the same way that the administration did, which backed off of the prescribed punishment remember, so obviously they admit it was ambiguous.</p>
<p>Just because a policy is applied in the same way to everyone, does not make the policy fair (although it does make the application of the policy fair).</p>
<p>As I understand it, the boy is not arguing for no punishment - he offered to do daily after school work, if I recall correctly. Also, he was given no recourse to appeal the decision to pull him from the class. I don’t know whether he has a right to that or not, but he must feel the need to appeal it, and had no where to go but to the courts.</p>
<p>Wolverine86, spot on in so many ways!! Love your comment about Beghouse’s (admitted) dishonesty opening another Ivy spot for a hard working honest kid (who sadly, according to most of the folks in this discussion, is as rare as bigfoot or unicorns…)</p>
<p>xleadinglifex “If you cheat the worst that happens is you get a 100.” Clearly at Sequoia HS, the worst that can happen is you kicked out of the class and/or the honors program. Unless your Dad’s rich or a lawyer…or ideally, both.</p>
<p>Lawyer dad’s proposed punishments like being an afterschool teacher’s assistant smack of cushy special treatment for his “wonderful son”. </p>
<p>Heck, why not propose punishments which are not only aren’t really punishments…but could easily be positions students could clamor for in order to strengthen their college app ECs?</p>
<p>You are getting ahead of yourself. As far as I know, the boy is still kicked out of the class, so the Dad’s actions have not helped him, yet, if they ever will at all.</p>
<p>Bay…That was exactly my point though. As long as the policy is applied uniformly (fairly) to all the students, there is no room to complain about it just because it’s being applied to you. If you think the policy itself is unfair, then work to change it or don’t agree to it in the first place. This student did not have to take this class…he CHOSE to take it. </p>
<p>Of course he’s not going to be happy with the agreed to punishment, but the policy doesn’t allow for him to “pick his own poison”. Working after school as an assistant?? Are you kidding me?? In our HS hard-working, ambitious, successful, non-cheating students apply to become teacher/administrator assistants as EC’s or work experience. That’s not punishment…it’s a reward and in no way should he get it.</p>
<p>I’m surprised and disappointed that the school even offered to back off on the punishment, simply because of the message it sends to other students/parents. Rules don’t have to apply to me if Mommy or Daddy threatens to sue. This has become the norm in our lawsuit happy society these days. Too many bleeding heart Oprah Winfrey types telling everyone that “nothing is your fault” and “someone else is to blame”. Probably the biggest joke of the whole story was the father’s quote at the end. </p>
<p>If a court finds that the boy’s argument is correct, then his serving as a free after-school assistant ought to be recognized for the community service that it is.</p>
<p>Why do you think the boy should agree to do something awful that he would not have been required to do if the two-strikes policy is held to be the one that governs?</p>
<p>Actually, the boy’s Dad really is most likely doing this “for the other kids at Sequioa,” because it is unlikely that his son will be able to recover from it, even if he is held to be in the right. Only future students will benefit from it.</p>
<p>Sorry Bay…but IF the policy gets changed as a result of this lawsuit (and I certainly hope it doesn’t) it’s purely an unintended consequence of Daddy’s actions. His sole reason for suing is to try and pull his son’s butt out of the fire. Trying to claim noble intentions for future Sequoia students is nothing short of pathetic on his part. As others have noted, he’s probably done his son more harm than good by bringing the lawsuit so at least in this case the law of unintended consequences may help ensure justice is done…regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit.</p>
<p>For someone who abhors cheating as much as I do, it’s hard for me to understand how you can see any way this student might be “held to be in the right” or how future students could “benefit” from this lawsuit. If this student is allowed to dodge the prescribed penalty or (worse yet) the school changes its policy, then every student there is basically being told that cheating is ok. It’s not…not once, twice, thrice or any other number you choose.</p>
<p>To discourage other kids from following his bad example. An essential part of a given punishment should be that it’s awful enough so that few would be willing to risk incurring it…especially when the issue…as is here deals with cheating…a behavior one should never minimize nor condone as it not only displays red flags for someone who lacks a decent work-ethic…but someone with serious character flaws and issues with honesty/ethics. </p>
<p>Not to mention possible sense of overentitlement as this son clearly displayed by dubbing what what IMO was a slap on the wrist at best as “tyranny”. If he had tried pulling all of that at my HS or moreso…my undergrad…I wouldn’t be surprised if he was immediately suspended, or worse…expelled with practically no chance of returning.</p>