<p>I agree with Hunt.</p>
<p>““This was not the case for customers purchasing from " the Apple Store”.”"</p>
<p>These kind of news spreads pretty quickly in China. Either the consumers would demand a deep discount or they would shop elsewhere. And consumers in China, are already conditioned to be more skeptical. A market economy isn’t perfect, but would work overall and in the long run.</p>
<p>““I agree with Hunt.””</p>
<p>I wouldn’t expect anything else. Somebody mentioned about blind patriotism earlier… :-)</p>
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<p>Theft of IP is theft of IP. Period. It is the first step we are talking about.</p>
<p>““Theft of IP is theft of IP. Period. It is the first step we are talking about.””</p>
<p>Then suspects are arrested, factories are closed down, and news are spread to alert consumers. No? :-)</p>
<p>Fake Gucci bags kill. Now please go and read up on why I say this.</p>
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<p>No, but that’s in large part because there are more Chinese kids who are fluent in English than American kids who are fluent in Chinese. </p>
<p>Moreover, in part because the US economy is so bad right now, there are a lot of Americans kids seeking jobs in China. Usually, but not always, those jobs involve teaching English. </p>
<p>I don’t condone the Chinese producing counterfeits. That said, have you ever visited NY? Almost every young woman working in my office has a counterfeit handbag–Gucci, Prada, Kate Spade, etc. They know where to buy them. There are degrees in the quality too. The Senegalese vendors on every street corner sell the lowest quality. There are much better fakes available elsewhere. At some of the stores, you need an “introduction.” Some of the best “fakes” come from Chinatown. I don’t buy but even I know that you can buy a DVD of any major movie MONTHS before the “authorized” DVD is released. </p>
<p>Yes, some of these “counterfeit” items are MADE in China, but a lot of them are SOLD here in the US.</p>
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I’m sure you would rather talk about fake Gucci bags than fake antibiotics. But they aren’t apples and oranges at all–they are part of the same criimnal universe tolerated by the Chinese government.</p>
<p>By the way, your defense is the same as that used to defend people in other countries who grow opium for heroin, and other drug producers.</p>
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<p>And there is more than fake killer drugs. We have had problems with parallel imports of lead painted toys. The issue of fake and substandard parts for the automobile and … aviation sector has raised its ugly head. The list probably goes on to computers and medical equipment. </p>
<p>There is quite a difference to knowingly buy a counterfeited Gucci, Chanel, or Rolex because those are only vanity items. While buying fake and cheaper Nike or New Balance might hurt your feet, dying from taking fake blood pressure pills that have poisoned our regular distribution channels, or having cars or planes crashing is a different story.</p>
<p>It is obnoxious to pretend that the pirates in China solely respond to a demand we created.</p>
<p>“Fake Gucci’s and Rolexes can’t be fatal, especially for those who knowingly buy them as counterfeits.”</p>
<p>Not so fast.</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.michiganjb.org/issues/1/article4.pdf[/url]”>http://www.michiganjb.org/issues/1/article4.pdf</a></p>
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<p>[Counterfeit</a> goods are linked to terror groups - Business - International Herald Tribune - The New York Times](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/12/business/worldbusiness/12iht-fake.4569452.html]Counterfeit”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/12/business/worldbusiness/12iht-fake.4569452.html)</p>
<p>I have to say that I have no problem with goods legitimately manufactured overseas, China included. The world is flater than it used to be. It is the counterfeit goods and blatant theft of IP and China’s slow response in dealing with these issues I have problems with.</p>
<p>I was listening to a book on tape about this that distinguishes between “pirated” and “counterfeit” goods. “Pirated” means that the technology is copied, and a knockoff produced that doesn’t actually claim to be the legitimate product–so if you buy a “Grucci” bag or a “Kalloway” golf club, you’re still buying something that is based on stolen intellectual property, but you know it’s a knockoff. A counterfeit actually pretends to be the real thing–and that’s where things like drugs and auto parts can be deadly.
I guess copies that everybody knows are fakes–like cheap Rolex watches on the street–are sort of a middle ground.</p>
<p>““I’m sure you would rather talk about fake Gucci bags than fake antibiotics. But they aren’t apples and oranges at all–they are part of the same criimnal universe tolerated by the Chinese government.””</p>
<p>The above is another strawman argument again. You can’t make any headway in terms of the original subject of consumer products, such as iPad and iPhone, and now you desperately want to branch toward other areas. 
As I have mentioned earlier, suspects are arrested, factories are closed down, and news are spread to alert consumers. No? :-)</p>
<p>““By the way, your defense is the same as that used to defend people in other countries who grow opium for heroin, and other drug producers.””</p>
<p>Your words, not mine. But then you mean as in the US government, “tolerating” opium production and trade in Afghanistan? Despite the lukewarm efforts to combat drug trafficking, Afghanistan still remains the leading opium producer in the entire world.</p>
<p>“But the real test for the Afghan government and the Pentagon came with the “force protection” issue. At high-level international conferences, the Afghans finally, under European pressure agreed to eradicate 50,000 hectares (more than 25 percent of the crop) in the first months of this year;… But once again, Karzai and his Pentagon friends thwarted the plan…They eradicated just over 1,000 hectares, about 1 percent of the Helmand crop, before withdrawing to Kabul.”, [Is</a> Afghanistan a Narco-State? - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Is Afghanistan a Narco-State? - The New York Times”>Is Afghanistan a Narco-State? - The New York Times) .</p>
<p>“Afghanistan supplies more than 90 per cent of the world’s opiates.”, [Tackling</a> the Afghan opium threat](<a href=“http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/frontpage/tackling-the-afghan-opium-threat.html]Tackling”>Tackling the Afghan opium threat), <a href=“http://www.unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/ORAS_report_2011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/ORAS_report_2011.pdf</a> .</p>
<p>Are you finding it hopeless with the US government, so that you must redirect your disappointments overseas toward the Chinese government? :-)</p>
<p>““And there is more than fake killer drugs… There is quite a difference to knowingly buy a counterfeited Gucci, Chanel, or Rolex because those are only vanity items… It is obnoxious to pretend that the pirates in China solely respond to a demand we created.””</p>
<p>The above is self-contradictory in the sense that, those fake items which are detrimental to the consumers, would only make them more alert and discretionary and in turn, wouldn’t support the kind of demand that vanity items would. Furthermore, law enforcement as well as regulatory procedures, continue to adapt in combating these issues.</p>
<p>““Not so fast… Some specific terrorist incidents also appear to have been funded by counterfeit operations””</p>
<p>You are grabbing on straws here. Some terrorists funding their operations with counterfeits, is far different from counterfeits existing for the sole purpose of funding terrorists. For example, a dog is an animal but an animal may not be a dog. :-)</p>
<p>““It is the counterfeit goods and blatant theft of IP and China’s slow response in dealing with these issues I have problems with.””</p>
<p>Then it is apparently only a disagreement of how much legal enforcement is good enough, because of different viewpoints on the actual constraints. :-)</p>
<p>Green, your twist-the-truth arguments are a tough sell to CC folks. You said fake Gucci bags have no potential of being lethal, I pointed to an example of why they kill. Terrorism is one of the illegal activities funded by counterfeit merchandise sales (I will leave it up to you to identify the other ones). Of course, no one can tell precisely what percentage of terrorist activities is funded through the trade of counterfeit merchandise because neither terrorists nor counterfeiters report their earnings to the public (neither GAAP nor non-GAAP, LOL). Only when a terror ring gets busted the books get open up and scrutinized by the FBI etc.</p>
<p>Please tell us how counterfeit merchandise and stolen intellectual property benefits the world, because you seem to see nothing wrong with it.</p>
<p>““Green, your twist-the-truth arguments are a tough sell to CC folks. You said fake Gucci bags have no potential of being lethal, I pointed to an example of why they kill…””</p>
<p>I am not selling anything. You have your opinion and I have mine. I do read some of the messages here and you mentioned that you work in the biotech sector. I find it appalling that somebody with your background, would even put up such a strawman argument, because, for example, most medicine would have been banned according to your standards of being supposedly “lethal”. And some of our water sources may have supported terrorists, is water supposedly “lethal” too? :-)</p>
<p>““Please tell us how counterfeit merchandise and stolen intellectual property benefits the world, because you seem to see nothing wrong with it.””</p>
<p>Your words, not mine. Now, see who is bending the truth? :-)</p>
<p>So you agree that counterfeiting is a real problem and China is not doing enough? Good.</p>
<p>For anyone who is interested in the issues of brand piracy which the fake Apple stores brought to light, here is an interesting article:</p>
<p>[Fake</a> Apple Store Cuts to Core of China’s Risk to Brands](<a href=“http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2011/07/22/207761.htm]Fake”>Fake Apple Store Cuts to Core of China’s Risk to Brands)</p>
<p>““So you agree that counterfeiting is a real problem and China is not doing enough? Good.””</p>
<p>Almost, but it is still your words, not mine. I have already written a bunch of messages on the subject here. Please read them through. Or skip them, if they bother you. :-)</p>
<p>“Johnny, did you pull the cat’s tail?”
“Billy stepped on the dog’s foot.”</p>