<p>@go2007: no, I got in UCLA and Cornell.</p>
<p>I would not argue that UC Berkeley is ahead of Princeton. Its research output and graduate programs more than make up for its undergrad.</p>
<p>
I always don’t understand when Americans say something like that. If you are, say, comparing between Cornell and John Hopkins, then it is true to say that Cornell is better than John Hopkins overall and if THES ranks John Hopkins ahead of Cornell THES is wrong. </p>
<p>But you are comparing Americans universities against foreign ones, and you must really be aware of the strengths of overseas universities to make good statements. I don’t see what is the problem of Cornell being ranked lower than Beijing. Cornell is among the lower Ivies in the US, you know it. Also, John Hopkins is also not HYPSM material. Beijing University (Beida), Tokyo University (Todai) and NUS are pretty much the top three universities in Asia. </p>
<p>May be you can help to explain why Cornell must be ahead of Beida and John Hopkins must be ahead of NUS. Frankly, I see that there is nothing wrong with it.</p>
<p>spencer11111,</p>
<p>I got many Chinese friends who immigrated to America or currently study abroad(some of them were top students in China) and all of them told me that even the best university in China can’t compete with the top universities in HongKong. In their opinions, American Universities are much better in terms of academic, research opportunities, and of course prestige. </p>
<p>If you live in California, UCLA and UCB share pretty much the same prestige. </p>
<p>Another thing you should look at is the endowment of the university. American universities usually have more financial endowment for less numbers of students comparing to overseas ones.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>why is it wrong if THES ranks JHU ahead of Cornell? isn’t it just your subjective bias? how long have you been in academia circle to know that this is wrong? isn’t your personal ranking is based on your personal anecdotal experience while you’re stilll in singapore. Have you been to Beijing uni or todai or whatever to know that they’re better than cornell/JHU? </p>
<p>I’m curious please explain.</p>
<p>
No… I used the Cornell vs JHU only as am example of US unis vs US unis. Not specifically intended.</p>
<p>Beida, Todai: Just four things:
- Look at the entrance
- Look at how much students need to study to get in
- They are top 0.1% and top 0.5% of China and Japan respectively. Cornell is no where as selective.
- Look at Todai’s research.</p>
<p>
I don’t know what type of “top students” they are, but they turning up at UCLA instead of Berkeley or Princeton looks interesting to me. I am 100% sure that they would not have made it to Beida if they had stayed in China. They are at UCLA only because their parents are rich, and can afford them to send them aboard. I repeat, they would not have made it into the top unis like Beida, Tsinghua, Fudan etc if they had stayed in China.</p>
<p>Beida and Tsinghua is already ahead of HKU. I don’t know how you rank a university as good. If you are ranking by, say, teaching and resource available to undegrads, then HKU would stand better. HKU have more money available to each students. But I believe that a more objective measure is by measuring research output and selectivity of the student population. In these two measures, Beida and Tsinghua wins University of Hong Kong hands down.</p>
<p>Finally, UC Berkeley has many top-notch researchers. I know UCLA has some, but Berkeley tends to have more. Also, Berkeley researchers are very highly cited.</p>
<p>Finally, the course-work at UCLA cannot be considered as extremely demanding, and the student population aren’t that selective. Definitely, it is way behind universities like Berkeley (graduate), Stanford and of course, mad Caltech.</p>
<p>spencer11111,</p>
<p>How do you know that the coursework at UCLA “cannot be considered as extremely demanding?” Have you actually taken courses there to know? I’ll tell you what: I went to UCLA for undergrad (also got into Cal and Cornell and a few others), and you know what?</p>
<p>The coursework at UCLA, in most things, is identical to Cal. Seriously, I compared syllabi to courses my friends took, and we had pretty much the same texts, the same loads, and the same requirements. The only real differences involved the quarters and fitting things around the weird times.</p>
<p>As far as Todai’s research goes, I suspect that you’re basing it on very little actual knowledge of the best research centers in Japan-- most would argue that Kyoto University is a better research university. Todai just produces a lot of high profile bureaucrats and politicians. Heck, last I read, Tsukuba was producing more good research than Todai, and I bet most people outside of Japan have NO idea what Tsukuba is.</p>
<p>And yes, I’ve actually studied and lived in Japan. I also considered doing grad school there, so I have a pretty fair idea of what’s what in Japanese academia. If you want, I can introduce you to some Todai and Kyodai grads. We can maybe schedule a discussion on which universities in Japan produce the highest quality research. Unless my Todai friends change their minds in the next few weeks, they’ll probably corroborate what I said before to you: Todai is not the best research university in Japan.</p>
<p>Yet THES seems to suggest it. Odd.</p>
<p>The fact is that Todai’s program quality is nowhere near that of the top 15 to 25 American universities. Most Japanese refer to undergrad in Japan as “adult kindergarten.” Todai is such a highly ranked university, yet it’s being blown away by “lowly” UCSD in terms of publications and Nobelists. Heck, in physics, one of Todai’s strengths, UCSB is a clearly better program.</p>
<p>UCSB!</p>
<p>Sorry, but Todai is impressive only because it represents a student who did well on the nyugakushiken. It is not terribly impressive as a research institution.</p>
<p>i’d say NUS would be the better option 4 u</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This wasn’t even said.</p>
<p>However, I think UCLA wins about 1/3 to 1/2 of the cross-admits with Berkeley.</p>
<p>Berkeley and UCLA both lose the vast majority of cross admits with Princeton-- this is not surprising.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Number 1 and 2 only tell you that they’re hard to get into. They don’t tell you that they’re any good. If a country has, by design, a highly restricted number of universities actually given the opportunity to develop good programs, then numbers alone tell you that it will have low admission numbers. However, it does not actually say whether or not those programs will be as good as other programs in other countries.</p>
<p>Arguing with Spencer is like banging your head on a wall. To answer the OP’s question : Go to Wesleyan.</p>
<p>UCLAri, so an average student at UCSB is more brilliant than one at Todai?</p>
<p>(I got in UCLA UCSD and UCSB.) </p>
<p>I know UCSB’s physics must be quite good. There are a couple of Nobel winners from there in the past few years. Considering the beautiful campus, I was almost tempted to go there.</p>
<p>Also, I believe that the UC system is extremely good. Probably the most successful public university system in the world.</p>
<p>spencer11111,</p>
<p>You missed my point entirely. I’m saying that a program’s quality is not necessarily indicated in its admissions.</p>
<p>If THES is so reliable, then why does it put Todai ahead of Kyodai, when it seems fairly obvious to many Japanese and observers of Japan that the latter is a better institution? If THES is an indication of research output and quality, then why does it miss the fact that Kyodai’s research is, generally, better?</p>
<p>There are countries whose best students are at substandard universities. Are you telling me that the very best German is really only 58th in the world? That they cannot compare to the very best Canadian, simply because THES tells us that?</p>
<p>I smell something, and it stinks.</p>
<p>What I’m saying is that the THES methodology is flawed. It doesn’t tell us the quality of education at a university. It tells us how many trinkets it has in its trophy case.</p>
<p>I think we are digressing. It’s quite pointless to argue which ranking list is better than the other because each has its own methodology and which you agree with depends very much on what you value more. Traditionally, the lists that attempt to rank all the universities in the world weighs very heavily on research prowess (or reputation, which hinges on research prowess anyway). It is in no way representative of the student quality at the institution, not to mention the quality of education that is offered. Take NUS for example. Well enough, being the NATIONAL university of Singapore (where all the academia in Singapore congregate) and one of the only TWO research universities here (effectively receiving half of the government funding or more), it produces enough research for it to be ranked as high as 18th on the THES. But that speaks nothing about the students. Our top students invariably end up at overseas universities, they simply dread going to the local universities (unless you’re doing medicine). Surely, there are still many bright students at our local varsities but they are more likely to be ‘mugging’ (our colloquia for studying) their asses off to keep themselves on the dean’s lists rather than engaging in intellectual discussions with you. While I will not say categorically that the education experience in NUS is inferior, I will at least say it is very different. If you’re doing engineering, NUS is not so bad. The academic rigor you get here will definitely be more intense than you will get elsewhere. But you’re doing the more art-sy majors, or want a more well-rounded education, or more research opportunities, I suggest you stay away from Singapore.</p>
<p>UCLAri,</p>
<p>The THES is quite good in the sense that it captures research quality, students, teaching, reputation, employment and etc. Todai may lose to Kyodai in research, but overall Todai is a better school and the Japanese would agree.</p>
<p>I guess when you are saying quality of education, you are thinking of well taken care of by faculty, whether notes are well typed, whether the activities are fun etc. When I am talaking about standard, I am referring to opportunities, faculty (whether they are leading scholars in their field), student population and so on.</p>
<p>spencer11111,</p>
<p>Not all Japanese agree that Todai is better. Most do.</p>
<p>However, YOU were the one harping on research at Todai without actually demonstrating that it’s a research powerhouse.</p>