Christian expectations of a college & their standards?

College Search & Lists
1

<p>(I realize this is not a Christian college issue, but please read on and maybe you’ll understand. Sorry, it is long.)</p>

<p>Is that realistic?</p>

<p>I have applied at several colleges and universities, and the crazy part is I have found that community colleges, for the most part, snub their noses at my faith. I’m not hard to please, nor am I thumbing my nose at them. </p>

<p>I am a Christian. An ordained preacher, in fact. I am not practicing at this time, perhaps someday. The faith itself is not important, as we simply refer to ourselves as Christians.</p>

<p>The issue that concerns me is when I apply for admissions, they ask for personal information. No problem. Just tell me why you need it, what you plan on doing with it, and who has access to it. In fact, for the Social Security Number part, for any college that asks for that, I tell them that specifically. </p>

<p>Well, applying for college is not new to me. I have applied at many. Those I appl;ied to that my application was accepted at are-
University of Utah (Salt Lake City UT)
Utah State University (Logan UT)
Utah State University (Roosevelt UT)
University of Wyoming (Laramie WY)
Sheldon Jackson College (Sitka AK)
University of Alaska (Fairbanks AK)
University of Colorado (Boulder)
Colorado State University (Ft. Collins CO?)
Adams State College (Alamosa CO)
Mesa State College (Grand Junction)</p>

<p>They asked why I was specific and I was honest- my personal info is very personal. They complied with my request and all went well. Every time I refuse my SSN, they ask and again I’m honest- in my faith we don’t give that out. BUT, in some instances “we” understand it is required by law. And with any college that accepts state or federal funding, they are required by federal law to give that information. Only college I ever applied to that does not (at least then) accept state or federal funding that I know of is Sheldon Jackson College in Sitka (they have one of the best fisheries programs around).</p>

<p>All of those colleges and universities I applied with and was accepted by acknowledged that and either did not push it or complied with my request. No one gave me any trouble.</p>

<p>Then there’s the colleges that have a problem with this-
Red Rocks Community College (Lakewood CO)
Colorado Northwestern Community College (Rangely CO)
Aims Community College (Loveland, CO)
Arapahoe Community College (Littleton, CO)
Colorado Mountain College (Leadville & Glenwood Springs, CO)
and Western State College (Gunnison CO)</p>

<p>I’m not trying to pick a fight, but I have several valid reasons for my “extreme” privacy concerns-
First, is religious. We consider the SSN to be the mark of the beast. Is it? Well, show me what you can do without it, then I’ll consider debating if it is or isn’t!
Second, I have been through Identity Theft when I gave it to a potential employer in 2001. I finally got THAT mess cleaned up in Feb. of this year (whoever says cleaning up IS theft is easy is a liar or a millionaire!)</p>

<p>When I have discussed this with admissions, I’m told “you can trust us!” Oh really? Ok, comply with my request. And legally, the request is mandatory for anyone that requests your SSN. I did a sermon on that once. Public Law 93-579, Section 7. In particular Section 7b. When I told the last community college that, the woman told me that by the Book of Romans I am to honor and obey those that have authority over me, so give it to them. That started the biggest fight with a college I have been in to date. Fine, I will honor their request. Just obey the law yourselves- comply with the Privacy Act as I asked and you’ll get it.</p>

<p>When I “pushed the envelope” and kept asking why they need it I have been told a myriad of reasons-
So they can verify that I pay my income taxes.
So they can verify that I pay my property taxes.
So they can verify my criminal history.
So they can do a credit check.</p>

<p>And when I disputed the validity of those checks, they became more extreme-
So they can verify that I am not a terrorist.
So they can verify my disability.
So they can comply with the Patriot Act.
And finally the biggest insult of all- So they can make sure I’m not another Timothy McVeigh.</p>

<p>Can you say angry? I can, and I was. I was beyond angry at the last one. Now, I am prohibited from entering any of the campuses for that college. In fact, I still have the letter from one of the administration claiming that some obscure IRS law they claims requires it, yet when I found it, it says nothing whatsoever about that.</p>

<p>So my attitude changed- if they really need it, they won’t lie. If they hada legal reason to have it, they won’t lie. These aren’t students, these are adults. Adults that graduated from college themselves and that have been doing the college administration work for years. So…why lie? Just tell me the truth.</p>

<p>I find it amazing that impressive four+ year institutions like CU/Boulder and uAK/Fairbaks has no problem with this, but a measly 2 year community college is willing ti lie about why they need it?</p>

<p>The comment has been made about this by college staff during discussion- “I bet that’s the only part of the Bible you obey, isn’t it!” Not a typo, because how they say it tells me they already think they know the answer. And no it’s not the only part. Case in point, the Book of Leviticus. I used to love pork. BLT sandwiches, I could live forever on! Pork chops? Yummy! Crabs & lobsters, oh man! But,the Book of Leviticus says no. So, I don’t eat them. There are some parts of the Book of Leviticus that no one can, in this day and age can comply with. Read it and you’ll see them. That argument has been used for the SSN and my no-pork diet as well. Something people must understand is there are times when you simply cannot control what is in the food. But I can control what I eat and who has my SSN.</p>

<p>So exactly HOW important is it? To me voluntarily giving my SSN is akin to spiting on Jesus and His works. It says in Revelations about it being the mark of the beast. You cannot accept that and just ask for forgiveness. It is what it is and once you use it (improperly), you have bowed down to Satan. When I have tried explaining this to administration, they comment about how their faith doesn’t believe that way, therefore now mine doesn’t. Or that I am defining my religion wrong. Or that because I give it once to a school that complies, that I must always iove it out because I am now “wearing” the mark. Excuse me, none of them have attended my church, that I know (because it’s a small church).</p>

<p>My attitude is if they force me to go against my faith, why not force Jews and Muslims to eat pork? Why that? Big difference? None at all. It’s against their teachings. No legal reason to force them to eat pork? As much legal reason to do that as there is to demand my SSN, in my eyes.</p>

<p>Because of this I have been refused enrollment at the last five colleges. All community colleges. Western State, after considering this, retracted their denial of my application, but when they had I stated no interest in attending there. Had my application gone through as planned, I would have had private funding for school and I would be attending right now. Somehow they have this idea that I can drop everything and move my life down there in two or three days. LOL! Maybe for a high schooler that hasn’t got their life going already. </p>

<p>So now I come to you asking for advice. Right now I have zero intent on attending that community college. I have no respect for them or the other colleges as professionals in the higher education field. I just want to go to college, but at the same time I refuse to spit on God or Jesus.</p>

2

<p>“Is it? Well, show me what you can do without it, then I’ll consider debating if it is or isn’t!”</p>

<p>According to the book of Revelation, you cannot buy or sell without the mark of the beast. I imagine that most of the transactions we carry out every day are done without ever giving out our SSNs. In fact, there is a greater effort today to protect them, due to the problems of identity theft, etc. </p>

<p>Second, note that the SSN is a distinctly American, rather than universal, phenomenon – which doesn’t correspond to the description of this mark in Revelation. </p>

<p>It sounded from your email as though you had some options of where you could attend. Why not just go there?</p>

<p>Finally, there are times when one has to pay the price of one’s religious convictions – that’s the way it was for Christians in the early Roman empire at least. Nobody honored the convictions of Christians who refused to offer a pinch of incense to Caesar; they paid with their lives. If you feel you must take a stance based on your convictions, are you not also called to bear the consequences?</p>

3

<p>

Because right now funding is an issue as well as location. The worst of the community colleges is unfortunately local, and anywhere else is at least 3 hours away, longer with winter setting in. And moving is not considered an option right now, or will be for a couple years.</p>

<p>

Perhaps. There is something about paying taxes that support a program/college that will openly discriminate. OTOH if they did that to someone Jewish or Muslum, the US Dept. of Justice would be crawling all over that school. I’m stuck with this idea that if I am paying taxes to support a college, they should be equally respectful of all religions. Not my opinion really, I see that as a Civil Rights Act of 1964 issue. And if I’m going to pay them money, be it through a loan or out of my pocket, they shouldn’t be treating me like a lower form of life.</p>

4

<p>What I failed to mention is those applications to the universities are since 1995.</p>

5

<p>One needs to understand the various cultures of institutional types and their foundations, not merely individual campuses. Community colleges will often, make that usually, be policy driven with less room given or taken for discretion. They tend to be vocationally and general education focused. They are nearly always public, quasi-governmental agencies and thus rarely is discretion granted, assumed, or embraced in realms of faith or religious issues. You know, the old “separation of” theme … You’ll not see the 10 Commandments posted or plaqued on community college campuses, nor courses in New Testament. Maybe a history or social studies course on “World Religions.” Few have a chapel or campus chaplain(s). It’s simply not their place. Or in your Utah, there may be some Mormon based 2 year schools, but they would be the anomalies. </p>

<p>So its sorely naive to be offended, upset that CC officials are oblivious or even put off by your concerns about such things. It’s like expecting a gourmet meal from McDonalds. Ain’t gonna happen…unless you’re my teenage son.</p>

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<p>You need to rethink your obsessions- misuse of your scriptures. Remember, Christ separated religion from secular things- his kingdom was not of this earth and there’s a passage about Caesar and coins. You are getting caught up in details and missing the message. -A Good Samaritan.</p>

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<p>So…seriously, where do you get this whole “SSN is the mark/number of the beast idea”? I mean, I researched it and there’s one guy who teaches it and no other scholars seem to agree. It’s not universal (global) and you have NO choice (as an American citizen) but to “take” it (that is, it’s forced upon you before you are old enough to make a choice against it – and if you did “refuse it,” the government would just assign you one anyway – in other words, short of your parents murdering you upon birth, there’s really no way they could have avoided an SSN being assigned to you).
Sorry, but from the Biblical Studies courses I have taken (I go to a Christian school requiring such), your beliefs have NO support in Scripture. Now, don’t get me wrong, you can certainly tell colleges that’s what you believe, but for you to get angry at them for not accepting your reasons as in line with a major religion is really kind of out of line. Not to mention the fact that if the people you are talking to call themselves Christians, they probably think you’re a total heretic and wonder why you’re trying to use their belief system to justify such a thing – to them you’re probably just causing trouble!</p>

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<p>I realize that others may agree or disagree with my/our beliefs. Even IF I didn’t use scriptures, Federal Law is not biblical. It is, well, Federal Law. So because the school may disagree with my use of scriptures, they are now exempt from obeying Federal Law? </p>

<p>THAT is the problem. The school got picky and asked why we are so touchy about the SSN. It came out what we believe, and some how that makes it all okey dokey?</p>

<p>Look at it from this prespective- let me erase all religion from the picture. They, the school administration, lied. Period. Excuse after excuse, none validated by the same laws they quoted. I realize that you may roll your eyes at this issue. Well, you tell me. If they are going to lie, and I can prove that beyond a shadow of the doubt, just to get my SSN so they can “validate” their need, then how am I to trust them (or how can any student trust them for that matter) that they do NOT have criminal intent in mind? If they lie to get it there is no reason to believe they will not lie about how it is used. </p>

<p>THAT is the problem. </p>

<p>I recently spoke with a close friend of one of the admin staff and he said they have made changes in their so-called “system” (to accommodate a law that was passed 30+ years ago!), so I may not be required to provide my SSN. But the problem remains the same- they will still want it IF I am going to pay resident tuition. Even though I have lived here for years, and they know I have. Another one of those miracles of science, I suppose. They can somehow do what even the federal government cannot do- prove I am who I say I am and where I have lived based solely on my SSN. No such database or information structure exists. </p>

<p>Religion or not, the school lied. If I lived in a bigger community where there were multiple schools available, I would not care. But right now if I go to any other school I’m looking at at least a 3 hour drive (it’s winter time now) one way.</p>

<p><em>I</em> can tell the difference between religion and politics. Just because the school disagrees with my church does not give them the right to lie and break the law. And now we are talking about criminal law (18-5-904 CRS).</p>

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<p>Well, if you believe they have violated that law, show it to them, threaten to contact their accrediting agency, the BBB, state and federal Depts of Education, etc., (or just hire a lawyer) and they may reconsider…although it might be a bit awkward attending a school where you basically forced your admission. I honestly can’t say I know what any of us here can tell you beyond that.
Out of curiosity, do you give employers your SSN? I know they can take, say, a passport instead. Perhaps you could try that with those schools?</p>

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<p>“let me erase all religion from the picture. They, the school administration, lied.”</p>

<p>uhhhhhh, that’s a nonsequitir.
what, did you think the school administration is made up of the twelve apostles?
did you not know we live in a fallen world?
have you ever lied?
reality check.
some people are congenital liars.
surprised?
people and institutions are not perfect - else why a need for a messiah?
get over it, pray for them, play by their rules or don’t play - it’s not as if you have resisted unto blood or anything.</p>

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<p>I will be honest with you. At some of these schools, probably most of them, they think that you are making a big deal over a minor matter, and they can anticipate that this is what they will have to deal with if they admit you. They are not going to go to very great lengths to accomodate somebody who is likely to be a hassle in the future. You may have to find a religious school that shares (or at least tolerates) your views.</p>

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<p>I read over the “law” you state gives you the right to withhold your social…however, I see no where where it states that a school cannot demand your social security number…only that they must inform you of why they require it and have safeguards in place to protect unauthorized persons from accessing the information. The only thing it states is that federal, state and local government agencies must protect the information if it is given. Also, you may want to read up on later laws that were written which override the Privacy Act you refer to. Educational institutions have a legitimate need to request and have your social security number on hand…it is used to confirm your identity between institutions and with the Federal Government.</p>

<p>If you want to hold to the “it’s against my religion” routine, you will find that you will lose out on many things in life. Society is not going to conform to one individual’s “fear” that the social security number is the mark of the beast. If this belief was held by a majority, you might have luck…if this belief were established by a legitimate religious organization, you might have luck…but as someone else has already said, this isn’t a widely held belief by any religious organization.</p>

<p>And I guarantee…if you refused to provide your social to my institution, they would refuse to accept your application for enrollment.</p>

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<p>Well, be that as it may Nikki. But no law says it’s ok for the school to lie to get it. And, I have those lies on their letterhead. If they have to lie to get it, who says they’re telling the truth about what they do with it? “The law”? The same law they are already breaking by lying about it?</p>

<p>I have discussed this with US Dept. Justice/Civil Rights and the Wash. D.C. office of FERPA and both have said that the schools must comply with the Privacy Act. </p>

<p>I’m not saying I “won’t” give them my SSN. But if they want it they gotta comply with the law, and if you read that law you’ll see that it’s really not hard to do. </p>

<p>And if your school receives state or federal funding, they must comply with the law as well.</p>

<p>So tell me about these laws you speak of that overrule the Privacy Act. Betcha they don’t exist.</p>

14

<p>If you’re really willing to give them your SSN in order to avoid that 3-hour drive, the best advice I can give you is to stop fighting them, apologize for creating an inconvenience, and just give it to them. I can guarantee you that you will never get satisfaction by pursuing this to higher levels–you will only find greater and greater frustration.</p>

15

<p>The laws I work under require me to obtain a student’s social security number and require me to refuse service if the student fails to cooperate. Welcome to the wonderful world of Federal regulations, where one law easily supercedes others.</p>

<p>In my world, socials are used to administer financial aid, track and report enrollment to the Federal Government, using NSLDS and National Clearinghouse. If we didn’t have the student’s social, we would not be able to submit the Federally required reports and could lose Title IV funding for the ENTIRE institution…even if the student didn’t want any type of Title IV funding.</p>

<p>You are really making a BIG deal out of nothing. If you can’t handle their reasons, then find another institution and move on. Some colleges do run background checks on their potential students…who are you to dispute their reasons…just because you don’t think they are valid? And then to drag the Christian faith into the argument? Do you honestly believe that Christ would have behaved this way if He werefaced with this situation? I don’t.</p>

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<p>Good good point. Now try reading what I wrote.</p>

<p>If I pay out of my pocket what gives them the need to do a credit check?
If I pay out of my pocket how does financial aid become involved?
Am I forced by law or the school to take out a loan?<br>
Why does a CC need to do a background check when 4 year colleges don’t have the same “need”?
Why is it that these college-educated people think that people like myself are stupid?
Quick primer- I have started & owned several small businesses as well as been assistant manager at several stores (at different times) and general manager at a larger store. I have hired and fired people, and I know that there is noneed for a SSN to doa background check. </p>

<p>You say there are laws that say you must or can kick me out for not giving my SSN. Is that a fact? Actually, there are no such laws saying that. Not your school or any school can kick me out or refuse me enrollment for not giving my SSN. Is that my opinion? No. But just to be sure I’ll get you references on that!</p>

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<p>To the OP. To be honest I am having a hard time understanding your perspective on the situation. What I “hear” when I read the replies is that the schools should trust my good intentions when I describe my need for an exception (fair enough) but when the school explains their need your perspective does not return the favor; you are assuming bad intentions on their part. Why does this matter? Because maybe some if these issues can be resolved if boh sides are willing to work towards a compromise.</p>

<p>I certainly do not know the specifics of your specific situation but I can guess some non-combative reasons for the schools rules … they may not be great rules and you may not agree with them … but they mat exist for valid reasons other than trying to screw over the students.</p>

<p>Why would a CC require a credit check? especially since some other schools did not. CC draw more students from lower income/asset backgrounds so maybe the school has a history of students not being able to pay the bills. Even if you paid cash for the first semester how do they know you’ll be able to pay for all 4 semesters? BTW - given you willing to pay for cash I’d think some creative solutions could be worked out … can the cash be but into an account where a trustee pays the school for you (or you could pay in advance for your whole time at the school) … then there is no need for a credit check and the school knows it will be paid. </p>

<p>The SSN question is more interesting to me. In MA the state provides an alternative identification number for driver’s licenses so the SSN is not public. Maybe the school will except another goverment offical ID number (passport number or license number). However as another poster mentioned if they need SSN number because of some Federal regulation that allows them to accept Federal funds you’re probably out of luck … I can’t see a school losing all their Federal funding to help out one student. I guess you could pursue this requirement legally … I have no idea if this would be seen as restricting your religious freedom at a public school … but I would think a lawyer who has worked religious freedom cases could give you an opinion.</p>

<p>Another comment if any of these are private schools they can require there students to give up lots of legal rights … for example, many Christian colleges do not allow their students to drink or have sex … these students choose to give up these rights and attend the school and the limitations of the school. If any of these schools are private and want a SSN or credit report they can require them … and applicants can choose to comply or not.</p>

18

<p>All Title IV regulations apply to ALL students, even those who are cash paying and have no desire to receive financial aid. Title IV regulations include MANY mandates that apply to students who do not even complete a FAFSA to receive institutional aid. Being a cash paying student doesn’t change that fact. Institutional policies must be written and applied to ALL students, even those who do not want financial aid. The reason: Federal Regulations prohibit schools from distinguishing a difference between financial aid students and non-financial aid students. This may even be the reason they require the social from you…because they require socials from their FA students.</p>

<p>Actually, without your social, how can any admissions office confirm your eligibility for enrollment in a US school? How can they confirm that the transfer credits you present are actually yours? How can they confirm that you are even the person you are claiming to be? A quick search through NSDLS, using social name and DOB, can easily confirm many of the required elements. How can we notify Clearinghouse or NSLDS that you are a full time student without your social?</p>

<p>It is your opinion that we are not required to have a student’s social…it is fact that to submit all of the federally required reports, we MUST have the social security number.</p>

<p>And yes…an institution CAN lose complete Title IV eligibility if they violate ANY Title IV regulation…even if the violation only occurred with ONE student. It is likely to happen? Probably not…but I am not willing to take that chance with my institution.</p>

19

<p>Nikki I will reply later on this.</p>

20

<p>Ok, Nikki. I think I’m going to have to start over on this. Not your fault as I have an impairment (which I have discussed before, here, and it can be validated) that makes writing (or typing) difficult at times and I feel the wrong impression has been made.</p>

<p>Now with that said, I’m asking you for a clarification on “Title IV”. Because there is already a strong change of violations of Titles II, Title VI, and Title XI, and some of those violations are criminal in nature. And NOW you’re confused, right? Right. </p>

<p>Because when you talk of “Title” that isn’t a law in and of itself, but a SUB-SECTION of a law. You say “Title IV”, but no reference to the specific law. I say “Title II, Title VI, and Title XI” it’s specifically of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. </p>

<p>So if you can please be more specific than just saying “Title IV”, I’d appreciate it.</p>

<p>Now, to start over again in order to remove the confusion-</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I initially applied for college with the intent of paying out of my pocket and not seeking financial aid.</p></li>
<li><p>The school requested my SSN, and I asked them why they need it.</p></li>
<li><p>School scoffs at my inquiry, and asks WHY I need to know.</p></li>
<li><p>I tell them Public Law 93-579, also known as an amedndment of the Privacy Act of 1974, says they have to. Law says they have to, me OTOH just ASKED them to.</p></li>
<li><p>School gets more specific on WHY I have to know why they need it. I break it down to religion. Book or revelations and OUR (my faith) interpretation of it. The school tries pulling the Book of Romans on me saying I must obey their authority. To which I agreed, but then I told them THAT is why I asked for them to comply with the Privacy Act, because they might have authority over me, but the Privacy Act of 1974 has authority over THEM. And this has been confirmed by the US Dept. of Education, US Dept. of Justice Civil Rights Division, and the Washington DC office of FERPA. I said I will comply with their request, provided they comply with the law governing their request. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>And that law specifically states they must comply (Section 7b says that). And if they do not comply, they cannot refuse me service because they cannot/will not comply (Section 7a says that).</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I detailed to them that in a private school or business I can decide IF I give it to them or not (like anywhere else), and they can say “no” to me enrolling. BUT, it’s a public school with public funding (state and federal) and they have no choice but to comply with my request.</p></li>
<li><p>I have from school administration letters stating they ARE a private school even though they receive state and federal funding (not on letterhead but recorded with law enforcement AS official letters from school administration).</p></li>
<li><p>The State of Colorado Dept. of Higher Education says they are a public school.</p></li>
<li><p>I also have in writing from their school on official letter head stating what generalized “laws” they want the information for, but still refusing to say what those laws are other than (for example) “counter-terrorist laws”, which is not compliant with Section 7b.</p></li>
<li><p>The school has used multiple excuses without validating them-
a. So they can verify that I pay my income taxes.
-Doesn’t matter that they have no access to state or federal income tax information (confirmed by both US IRS and Colorado State Dept. of Revenue).
b. So they can verify that I pay my property taxes.
-Doesn’t matter that they have no access to state or federal income tax information (confirmed by both Colorado State Dept. of Revenue and the county clerk).
c. So they can verify my criminal history.
-That seems partially reasonable, though as I know from personal experience they really don’t need my SSN to do this.
d. So they can do a credit check.
-Unless I am asking for the school to loan me money, that is none of their concerns.</p></li>
<li><p>And when I disputed the validity of those statements, the school employees became more extreme-
a. So they can verify that I am not a terrorist.
-Doesn’t matter that they have no access to state or federal databases that have that information (as confirmed by the FBI and Dept. Homeland Security).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>b. Again telling me to confirm my income tax information.
-Again, it doesn’t matter that they have no access to state or federal income tax information (confirmed by both US IRS and Colorado State Dept. of Revenue).</p>

<p>c. So they can verify my disability.
-They have no need or right to confirm my disability unless I ask for accommodations specific for my disability.</p>

<p>d. So they can comply with the Patriot Act.
-There is no section of Patriot Act I (the only PA in effect at the time) that says this.</p>

<p>e. And finally, So they can make sure I’m not another Timothy McVeigh.
-They can go f* themselves over that one. There is no way in America or elsewhere where you can tell that by using a SSN and even then they won’t trust that capability to a stupid 17 year old kid.**</p>

<p>Now, referring to the aforementioned Privacy Act Sections-</p>

<p>Section 7 of the Privacy Act (found at 5 U.S.C. § 552a note- Disclosure of Social Security Number) provides that:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>As stated by the US Dept of Justice-

</p>

<p>Let me explain what is missed here by the school- When it says “this provision” is means Section 7a. They must still comply with Section 7b.</p>

<p>Section 7b says

</p>

<p>Very simple to comply with, provided the school has such authority to request the SSN.</p>

<p>Now, regarding the Partiot Act, more like the ONLY place in the Patriot Act I found any reference to the Social Security Number-</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>So it’s referring to “foreign nationals”, which I’m not, and not only does it say “comparable to that which is required of United States nationals”, it does not ANYWHERE in the Act say the Privacy Act can be ignored.</p>

<p>In telephone discussion with an “Acting Duty Agent” of the Dept. of Homeland Security, nothing in the Patriot act or any of the anti-terrorism laws (though unnamed) “requires” a SSN, and even then the requesting agency or public college (no matter if it’s a 2 year, 4 year or graduate) must still comply with the Privacy act.</p>

<p>In detailed reviewed of the Patriot Act by US Senator Leahy of Vermont nothing is mentioned as stated by the college. In fact, from that review I quote- </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>And I have reviewed “FERPA” (Title 20, Chapter 31, Sub-Chapter III, Part 4 Section 1232g. Family educational and privacy rights) and nothing there covers what the Privacy Act of 1974 can or cannot do. It covers, in general, financial and in-school records. I have not been able to get into the details yet regarding FERPA, but in discussion with a Duty Agent with the FERPA office in Washington DC there are no Privacy Act exemptions.</p>

<p>Nikki, I can understand their desire to obey the law. But WHAT law? How can they obey what they cannot identify? Show me the law and I’ll honor it. But they can’t. In fact, they lied. Which I have in writing, Nikki. Is that permitted? It’s ok for the school to lie about why the need it and what they do with it? But, if they lie about that, which is illegal and unethical, can you tell me what prevents them from mis-using that same information?</p>

<p>I have a problem with people that lie to get such information, Nikki. Wouldn’t it bother you?</p>

<p>Why not move to go to school elsewhere then? Because right now I don’t have the funds or capability to move. And honestly, no desire either. I like where I’m at. And if I have to move my domicile to lessen or remove any unlawful harassment or discrimination, that falls under the Fair Housing Act (going off of memory alone, there). </p>

<p>All they had to do is tell the truth, but that’s clearly too difficult for them.</p>