People I know whose kids applied to more “mid-level” music schools tended to have better experiences - like the teacher being very accommodating as to giving a trial lesson, giving tours himself, having them sit in on classes, etc. Schools like J’yard, Colburn, Curtis, Rice, even BU… not so lucky to get a quick or even any response. I understand that some big name schools and professors might get way way too many requests for trial lessons than they can handle, but if some admin asst. could at least screen those and respond simply that lessons in advance aren’t available or say to email again in a later month when the teacher has more time, at least that’s better than no answer at all. And yes, I think having the trial lessons and some personal contact definitely can help with the ultimate admission decision. Maybe even scholarships…
Regarding trial lessons and not getting emails/calls back – the top teachers at top schools get literally hundreds of requests annually. They simply cannot respond to all of them or give trial lessons to all of them. And to be honest, from what I know, at least half have zero likelihood of getting into the studio.
I would not make a judgment about not hearing back quickly (or at all) if you just sent a cold request. We did find that some things helped with overcoming these issues:
- Send a video link with your email
- Send a bio or resume or at least mention some of the major things you have done recently
- If you are in a precollege program, have a teacher, director, or other faculty member reach out on your behalf
- Figure out how to see them at another location, like a masterclass
It is still true that many of these decisions involve behind-the-scenes networking, sadly.
(Long winded reply…) My spouse teaches at two “big name” schools and he gets really frustrated regarding conversations like these. He (and many of his colleagues) don’t teach as their “day job”; they hold positions in a major symphony orchestra which is a full time job. They teach on top of this and still try to see their own families at some point. He does try and respond to email requests from prospective applicants the best he can but sometimes things slip through - there is not an administrative assistant screening his emails. The biggest frustration is when people assume he should offer a “trial lesson” at no cost. He is more than happy to try and schedule a lesson online or in person around his orchestra schedule and already enrolled students (who take priority over prospective students), but his time is not for free. Considering how many students are interested that would be a huge number of hours but more importantly he tells students they must realize that just because they are trying to make a career in music doesn’t make their time and services less valuable than other professions. What other profession / service (doctors appointments, meals at restaurants, hair cuts etc) do people assume they deserve a “free trial”? He tells his students to learn quickly not to let people take advantage of them as young musicians starting out by letting people convince them that doing a gig for free will somehow benefit them. (So please don’t try and treat your future mentor / colleague like their service is not valuable.) Trial lessons are great for him to get to see what a student is like before they officially are in front of him at the live audition but please remember February is super busy with the final rounds of auditions plus in his case (and most of his peers) he is also listening to a hundred recordings of people applying to a summer festival so prospective students have a much greater chance of getting a lesson scheduled in the late fall or even late spring for kids planning ahead (also not December when they are listening to hundreds of audition prescreen recordings). TooManyViolinists bullet point ideas are spot on.
Oh I get this completely–both your points and TooManyViolinists’. It’s the incongruity that bothers me: schools enthusiastically encouraging students to reach out to instructors and then the instructors not following up. And to be sure, my ds included a summary of his music resume as well as his specific interests in these programs.
In any event, his experience has been great overall.
Yes, as did my kid - always included video, resume, and offered to pay for lesson, but still often time no response, and then we’d contact admissions who just told us to email the professor, so it’s an endless loop.
I think its that the schools websites tell you to do this, and to name your teacher preferences in order in your application - very very hard if you haven’t had a lesson (which we would always pay for). Perhaps the Schools need to stop pushing it if just not realistic. I don’t think you can blame the students for doing what the school tell them to do on the admissions pages. And yes always included a resume.
I’m not saying he is blaming the students for doing what admissions encourages; but am just trying to remind parents/students to remember that the teachers have to prioritize incredibly full schedules. To your comment that your daughter didn’t apply to a big name school because it seemed pointless if the faculty didn’t appear interested; my husband said something once about the difficulty of making time to schedule lessons for interested applicants versus his workload that as a parent rang true to me. During this busy time is when his current undergrad and grad students are also applying to summer festivals and graduate/doctoral programs along with taking orchestra auditions and he is carving out all the time possible to give them extra lessons, help them record etc because as a teacher he is fully committed to his enrolled students and the ones that have graduated that he still tries hard to support in their growing careers. Many of these teachers are so fully committed to their students but do not have the bandwidth to be recruiting. Looking back to his masters degree 25 years ago which was from a fancy school with a fancy teacher that was and still is in a major orchestra there was no lesson prior or recruitment tactics and the teacher seemed so hard to reach and ambivalent. Once he was in his studio this teacher treated him like family and to this day still does. Please don’t read non-response or being turned down for a lesson time by faculty at a school as them not wanting a kid to apply or that they will be that way once the kid is admitted. Also, I wish all parents could hear the teachers talk about the kids that audition, he comes home from long days of listening to live final rounds and talks about how amazing the auditionees are and he gets really excited about trying to shuffle his schedule to make space. Every year he tells me “oh I can really only take 3 new students because A/B/C are graduating but A might stay for a masters so maybe only 2 new students.” then after audition days he’ll say “I need to figure out how to make room in my schedule for 6 new students.” He will be fully committed to all that come to his studio but I’m certain there are high schoolers out there who have felt brushed off by him when he didn’t mean to.
But…if as posters above said you need to pull your contacts to get a trial lesson (paid) and that those help with places.scholarships, then that’s really excluding of a lot of kids. I an not blaming the teachers at all , please don’t misread me - i understand the pressures; but the Schools need to stop telling the kids they need to do this, and stop asking for teacher preference ranking before audition…and maybe there is a way of including a lot of kids to see teaching styles etc without the time commitment of individual lessons. DD got invited to quite a few masterclasses and workshops pre audition - that seemed a really good way to start to get a feel of teacher fit
By this do you mean that admissions department are asking prospective applicants to request trial lessons? We did not find this to be the case, but maybe this is true at schools where mine did not apply.
I hear all of what you are saying. It’s obviously not a perfect system. Our own kids are high schoolers now and we have one that plans on applying to conservatories and we know he is going to need a really thick skin to get through the process (and even thicker skin when job auditions happen). One other place outside of masterclasses is to search videos online. Especially post covid, so many performers/teachers have a wealth of interviews and masterclasses posted online that would give a kid a window into the person’s general way of being/teaching. It’s tough, I just feel bad seeing conversations of parents/applicants feeling like teachers are blowing them off or don’t care when from the other side it’s definitely not the case.
Hi yes and to rank the teachers on their application forms
I appreciate you taking the time to give a perspective from the other side of things! And, as the wife of a public school teacher, I am extremely sympathetic to the plight of overworked, under-appreciated educators! I will say that, from my music kids’ side of things, I don’t think either of them would choose a school where they weren’t able to meet with their potential teacher and do a lesson beforehand…not because they would think they were terrible people for not e-mailing back or being available, but just because the primary teacher is too important a part of music school to go into blind. And both of my music kids are wind players; I think there’s only been one school they’ve applied to between the two of them with more than one teacher on their instrument; they need to know they can work well with that person. I think it’s really, tough, too that there’s so little uniformity in how these things work. Most of us are learning this process from scratch when we find ourselves with a kid who wants to do a music major–and then we find out that every school does things differently. Maybe you go through the department for a lesson, maybe you track down the teacher yourself. Maybe you’re expected to pay; maybe you’re not. Maybe it’s a teacher who’s a full-time, tenure or tenure-track professor as a primary job; maybe it’s someone for whom performing is their primary job and teaching is on top of that (which I think definitely affects how they interact with their students/studio/school/etc). Etc. etc. I like the way Blair/Vanderbilt does it; you fill out a form on their website to request a lesson, pay (a relatively nominal fee) in advance through the site so that there’s no awkwardness about payment with the actual teacher, and done!
Of course, I have to jump in here.
My D’s sophomore year, she did some light admin work for her teacher (who had been famous) for free. Her “job” was to delete emails…plain and simple. When she told me this, I was horrified…and said…there has to be a better way. Then she told me the amount of emails (think fan mail worldwide, interview request worldwide, requests to perform at random places, children and adults wanting her opinion on their video with sly titles to make her open it and of course serious students…it just went on and on day after day). My D would do it a few times a week and it was pretty eye opening. Anyone that she wanted to speak with…they had her private number.
She also made clear to her studio that she did not take suggestions from her students on candidates. So don’t do it. She made clear that she picked students from the auditions only…with no bias. So everyone would get the same chance. THEN, once she liked someone…she would contact them and offer lessons. This had worked for her for years…so why would she change it. She had no problem filling her studio.
This teacher gave my D her private number at her first lesson and she could contact her at anytime. She was very devoted to her students. She is still in contact with my D…and gives her notes on occasion.
She is a teacher and she still works with opera companies coaching (at least a few years ago she did). She keeps her network up which helps her students. She has a full teaching schedule, full studio, assists with operas on campus and listens to prescreens and attends multiple auditions…and begins recruiting. So, no a lot of free time. She does not have good admin skills (my D didn’t think she knew the shift key existed…and she did a very slow hunt and peck to return a few emails).
So…another perspective. And yes, the SALES arm of the music dept will tell you anything (in my experience). They are there to “pump you up” (as well as application numbers) imho. On the other side is the teachers…with limited time and sometimes limted admin/computer skills. Keep that in mind.
Of course, there are some smaller run LACs (and maybe some big U or conservatories) that do run a tighter ship (again in my opinion). And then there are the others…where it the wild wild west to a degree. Again…important things to note.
I still suggest observing, taking note, being mad…but waiting the process out. You’re probably right with your frustrations and your kid will end up elsewhere…but you never know until the end.
BTW…my D has been “ghosted” (after spending money traveling and time auditioning) by opera companies…no reply…nothing…eventhough their marketing material will say how “supportive” they are of young artists…
Agree. This was my son’s #1 factor for the program he picked. He turned down a full scholarship at another top music program because he just did not click at all with the teacher. He was able to gather a lot of this during pre-college summer camps (he was lucky that the actual professors worked the week), meeting them on tours, and through auditions in addition to a trial lesson.
I am really glad the realistic picture is being conveyed on the issue of faculty communication, sample lessons and so on. My kid waited until accepted- when the school was trying to impress her rather than the other way around. Granted this was some time ago. And for grad school, connecting with a mentor is crucial.
The chair of the dept. at a school that was a top choice, where she had been accepted and was wanted (merit aid) never answered emails. Kid called admissions and they said “yeah, they never answer” and contacted the teacher for my kid. They ended up meeting. Didn’t really bother my kid.
None of the issues with teachers not getting back were considered as part of the decision process. I know teacher fit is important and noone has a crystal ball. The posts above add more info on drains on faculty time beyond teaching and auditions: grad school applications for current students, letters of recommendation, and family life.
I do think summer programs and master classes can be valuable for meeting teachers. Perhaps that is one of the best criteria for choosing a summer program. We went to concerts and listened to things online and read bios. Etc. Tours and info sessions helped too.
Yes, every year, after he has heard live auditions and has a strong idea of which applicants he is excited about, he reaches out to them and tells them what he thought of their audition and asks if they have any questions; if they ask for a lesson he works really hard to find a time to schedule it while they are making their decisions. He doesn’t have say over scholarships/aid and the most he can do is tell admission department he really would like this kid at the school but he doesn’t have the power to say “here is another 10k” to a student. He teaches at both a college age and a high school age summer program so he does get to know future applicants through that “feeder”. This is why our music minded high school kid applied to specific summer programs to get himself in front of specific faculty he might want to study with in a couple of years. We looked far less at “name brand prestige” of programs and 100% at who is faculty for his specific instrument.
@77mom that is one reason I always like Walden. Top musicians are there for awhile and eat meals with students, hike with students, rehearse with students. Kind of a mutual immersive experience. Granted many of the visiting musicians are more contemporary classical, which could be a broadening, even clarifying, experience. Composing a piece is a really “holistic” musical experience and I think benefits instrumentalists too.
Yes, this was the case at at least six of the schools to which my son applied. Four were incredibly accommodating and two were totally unresponsive.
This definitely changed the course of both my kid’s UG selection. Very frustrating! It would definitely be better if they were just clear on their process - ie we don’t do sample lessons prior to acceptance, contact X in music admissions for questions. I think having an optional sit in masterclasses audition weekend is a great idea. As well as student panels with QA on student life. It’s the teachers/schools that say “contact for sample lessons” on their websites and just ignore that are most frustrating. It is totally understandable it’s not always doable, just make that clear. VAnderbilt is smart with an online form. We always offered to pay, it’s odd to me people would assume it is free.
We had been doing lessons in multiple things in our metro for many years. Sat in on many master classes. Have had to switch music teachers under duress. Teacher fit is huge and it also felt risky to us to not have a sense of how fit was going to be. And I don’t think it’s any coincidence my kids ended up where they had a lot of one on one contact with their final teacher.
There was one school last year that ended up my kid’s final list that had 30-40 minute student-faculty interviews on youtube of every faculty member. That was great and super helpful and we did actually watch a lot of those. It really gave a nice snapshot of faculty personalities, backgrounds, studio vibe, etc. They were very conversational and authentic and didn’t feel like typical marketing videos. I know this is a school that can be hit or miss on sample lessons. That’s a one time thing more schools could put together and link to their application pages.
My kid last year tried multiple times to get a sample lesson at one particular school. Because it is a common target for students that live local to us, we knew a number of students who successfully had a sample lesson or communicated with music teachers. Same school had all the love and time for her 2-3 weeks prior to May 1 decision day. LOL. That is a smaller program too.
This is an aside, but a faculty experience I haven’t shared from an audition day. This was one audition last year where we had to travel far and had no substantial contact ahead of auditions but she did get through prescreen. We flew across country for audition day. Kid is sitting in a hallway outside the room waiting for audition time. Faculty on a break, she was the first one up after break. While she was sitting there 2 people on her panel starting venting about how they hated undergrad auditions blah blah blah and all sorts of negativity. LOL, well that did not go over well with the kid who flew across the country. She was then completely DONE with that school. Wouldn’t do the student panel, info stuff, tour afterwards. I don’t doubt those days are long and exhausting for teachers. But dang, you can’t save it for a vent with your glass of wine later in the day?
I guess you just need thick skin for this business in general. Some of it is about money and connections and if you want to do it, you have to kind of learn to let go of those things you cannot control.
Just chiming in on my soprano D’s experience from last year. She only requested lessons from professors of schools that had already accepted her. I agree that this is an important part of the decision process. We really did not even think to ask for private lessons before acceptance.