It’a not your English skill, their website has directly conflicting information in the same paragraph. Looks like they copy and pasted incorrectly. Hopefully you get a clarification today. I would guess admissions is getting a lot of calls on this.
That’s definitely the idea I got from the Frost admissions pro at a Jazz House college fair event. Surprisingly heavy merit money too for Frost kids according to anecdotal conversations as well as their audition day presentation. We’ll see in a few days I hope. No safeties!
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My experience is with bfa acting programs but my old son had a 4.3 weighted and a mid 1400s sat with moderate rigor and was accepted academically to Michigan and nyu. Their criteria for arts students is definitely less than the general ones.
This is opinion. But I wouldn’t give up that easy on a school of interest. Most music schools have a good number of accompanists available. Even without a rehearsal, a good accompanist should be able to read the music quickly and follow along. Note that for vocal performance, you often walk into the room and hand the music to the accompanist with maybe 15-30 seconds to discuss. Then they plan…and you sing. No rehearsal given. And, the panel is on your kid’s side! They know that you don’t have a history with the accompanist…so they can overlook certain issues. They simply want to hear you play live.
Depending on the instrument, maybe it is more difficult. But if you can ask the school for help (a list of accompanists), you may be able to have your kid email a few and then send the music and a few notes. Maybe they can facetime briefly even if they don’t have time to rehearse.
And, auditions are NEVER perfect. Surviving a “messy” audition with your head help high is an important skill. STILL, I understand that it may be costly…and there is a chance that you can’t find an accompanist…but I think that is a small chance… I would at least try.
Finally if the school is low on your kid’s list, you could cancel it too. Just some thoughts.
I believe this is letting the applicant know that for the pre screening videos, accompaniment is not required, but for the live audition it is.
Except the sentence prior to the bolded one, directly contradicts it.
I know a bit about Bard,I know of its reputation, I know people who teach there I would trust to tell the truth and my son has ties to the school, he has performed and done master classes there and have known people who went there:
- I haven’t heard of the specific incident in question, but I have more than a bit of knowledge of these events happening at music schools and Spirit Manager is right, as sad as it is to say. There are all kinds of allegations out there, and CIM almost became bankrupt because they covered for William Prucell, settled a lawsuit that included huge financial payments, but kept him on staff (with the caveat he teach for free to help defer the amount of the judgement), and later he was found to again engaged in inappropriate behavior and fired (this is not inside info, this is all public). Curtis took a huge black eye when allegations happened against one of their famous teachers and they basically tried to silence the accuser (Lara St John), and there were other allegations. This has hit a lot of music schools big and small, that I can tell you. I don’t know the Bard incident, but it could very well have happened a long time ago. These days music schools know the consequences and are scared of it, but that kind of cover up and arrogance was wide spread. At many schools teacher studios now have glass panels in them and they have rules banning lessons at a teachers home unless someone else is there.
Not dismissing the concern, it has been and should be a concern, but basically because of the nature of the student/teacher relationship, the power a teacher has and how schools view ‘rock star teachers’ , this did happen and only recently has been addressed (and I apologize to others, I don’t want to turn this into bashing music schools, or make it seem like I am saying there is no problem; what i am saying is that Bard if this happened is not unique, the music world in general had problems with this kind of abuse because of power certain people held or hold.
- I would be careful about that. Most music schools imo are tying even merit awards to family income. One of the problems is people see on here someone saying they got a 30k merit award, when the school costs 80k. Bard from what I know is neither parsimomious or generous, I suspect they are like most other music schools these days and there will be a need based component even to merit awards. Full ride merit scholarships happen in specific cases that may not be tied to need, but IME they are getting to be very rare and deal with someone they see as a prestige student or where the teacher is that powerful.
3)I would be careful about that. There is a huge wall of smoke around this (pun intended), and I think that the drinking and partying there is no better or worse than other schools (with the exception of Colburn, that is so small and insular, they basically are kind of like the bio dome project back in the day, and they are able to be very strict). I suspect the people saying this see that Bard is a liberal arts college , with a reputation for being ‘out there’, so of course it is a place where kids get drunk and stoned, it is anything goes,etc…and I don’t think it is true. I have heard the same thing about Oberlin, one person told me it is a haven for hippy-dippy thinking ,anything goes,etc.
Unless the student goes to a place like Colburn (and there are others I am sure, Idk what the status of drinking and drugs is at Curtis,but I suspect it isn’t much different than other schools) they are likely going to face this with either standalone or university programs. In the end it is going to be up to them if they get into the party scene or not, you can’t protect them.
One note on that, as a music student someone who falls into the partying lifestyle will end up being exposed pretty early. With the amount of practicing involved, with the work teachers expect kids to put in, a kid who becomes a party animal is going to find themselves in trouble fast. They won’t get placed well in orchestra, they won’t advance in their playing, their teacher could end up dropping them.
4)Bard is upstate and it is kind of the traditional college town experience , so are other music schools (Oberlin comes to mind). It isn’t like Juilliard or NEC or Curtis that are in cities, for sure. It isn’t that remote, it is a relatively short train trip to NYC, so if the kid wants to do things in a city area, that is fine. It also isn’t like the school is 50 people, it is a decent sized liberal arts college, so there are things going on there on campus.
5)I haven’t heard that. Yes, in winter when it is cold and gloomy it can be depressing, but even NYC can be like that or Boston (my son said the winter there seemed to last forever), and it isn’t quite like Syracuse or Rochester in Winter either.
6)I suspect this came from rumors and some facts about the finances at Bard. Leon Bottstein is a great music scholar, and is an intellectual, but I suspect he isn’t the world greatest finance guy, I have heard things about Bard with issues with finances, shortfalls from endowments, some other things. However, I can also tell you that many schools run into this all the time. They could have cut back on some classes to save money, and housing at many schools is tight. I can tell you that Bottstein is great at fund raising, and I suspect whatever they ran into he will help address the issue. I also will tell you that outside maybe Juilliard or Curtis, music schools generally are on the edge financially , they don’t have the endowments a Juilliard does (Juilliard had so much money endowed that at times, the IRS has sent them nasty grams because they don’t use enough of the earnings on their endowment). You hear things all the time, several years ago there were rumors that CIM was going to close, between the financial settlements with inappropriate teacher behavior and general issues…and it didn’t.
To be honest, I would be more worried about whether the teachers in the music school could work with the student, or maybe that Bard requires music students to dual degree, which some music students don’t want to do. Things like it is more a traditional college campus in a relatively rural area might now work for the student, which is fine, but the rest of it? From what I know, no different than at most of the music schools I know.
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From what I know in general with music schools in universities where the academic performance is part of getting admitted, they generally don’t hold music students to the same academics they would someone getting admitted for academic only study (and obviously this depends on how competitive the academic side; for example, might be different with Bienen at Northwestern than another music school at another university that is less competitive admit academically). They understand that serious music students don’t have the time to have the 12 APs, the honors classes, etc, that top academic students bring (I saw exceptions to that, at the pre college program my son went to I saw kids who were great musicians but also had the stellar stats; on the other hand they were aiming at elite academic schools like HYP, where music is a big edge getting in).
I suspect that with music students they probably have a cutoff with the academic side that says below this, forget it, and it likely isn’t as high as you think, so if most kids were admitted with a 3.9, with a music student they may be okay with a 3.3 or something (folks, that is a totally made up example). From what I have heard it also depends on how good the music school is, that despite being theoretically independent, if a kid is on the border they will ask the music school about if they feel they are strong and will then admit them. I can’t speak to situations like kid wants to do a dual degree, that very well could have higher academic admit standards then a kid just doing a bm.
Take a deep breath (I know, impossible). I can tell you that with music students (performance) , that schools don’t hold performance students to the same level as academic admits, even Northwestern which is a pretty tough academic admit gives a lot of leeway (note I am talking about BM only, dual degree could be very different). As long as the student has decent SAT and GPA (how APs became used in admissions I don’t know, that to me should be banned personally),they will be okay on the academic side. So you don’t need to be the 4.3 GPA, X APs, 1500+ SAT. I will add that despite claims to the contrary the academic side does talk to the music school, and sometimes kids with meh academics but stellar ability get in. I think if your kid has decent academics and SAT scores in the decent range, it likely won’t be a problem. I think where academics can kill a student (just based on my experience) is when they get into the music school but aren’t particularly great and their academics are just okay.
I can explain the kids who play at the highest level but then go to a top 20 school to study comp sci, etc etc. My son went to Juilliard pre college and there were a lot of students like that, who were going to academically challenging schools (talking about in the NYC area, places like Scarsdale, Basking Ridge, some school districts in Bergen County, NJ), taking big course loads of honor classes, APs,etc, but were also top level music students even for there.
The answer is that the parents know that elite schools give an edge to admissions to kids who are high level music students because they see it as prestigious and they get the kids to take up music as a result. The Ivies (HYP in particular) don’t have performance degrees, but they have an orchestra program they are proud of, they will pay for students to have private lessons, often have chamber music too. The kids generally fall into several camps 1)kids who are really into music, would like to go into it, but their parents wouldn’t let them, given the fraught nature of music. Some of these kids get the prestigious degree and then go into whatever outside music, some continue to play as amateurs. Or they make mom and dad happy, then in grad school go for performance. 2)Kids who do it because their parents want them to do it, then in college drop it as a soon as they can.
Anyway, likely what you saw was that, high level pre college music as a kind of ‘super ec’ to give them an edge in admissions among kids equally loaded for bear academically.
I would recommend that you look at any emails that were sent from UCLA after the prescreen pass notification. My daughter (VP) was asked to send an email with music scores for accompaniment. She did that and was contacted by the Pianist that was assigned to her. There may be more detailed instructions in an email compared to what is on the website. My daughter will have 15 minutes of practice time with Pianist the day of the audition. There was also the option for additional time.
You do what you can, there are tradeoffs between academic rigor and music. It is why a lot of serious music students homeschool because of the time constraints of going to school in person.
One note, Yale school of music is graduate only, for undergrad while they have an orchestra and they will pay for private lessons, they don’t offer a BM degree.
Kids can change their mind, but in the end it can be hard to hedge your bets when it comes to music. Dual degrees seem like a great backstop, but as the big thread on that about the dual degree dilemma, trying to get both an academic and BM degree can be very, very difficult, especially to keep up with the BM side. Bard I believe requires dual degree, but they also are a 5 year program to allow for that. Applying strictly for a BM seems to limit you but it doesn’t. Kids finish BM degrees and go on to things in grad school or professional school, I know music students who got an MBA from Harvard Business School after going to a conservatory.
My son when he applied UG to music schools only applied to I think 5, he said those were the schools he felt would work for him, and said if he didn’t get in then he would either take a year and reapply or figure out something else. He said it didnt make sense to have safeties because that (to him) meant he wasn’t where he needed to be. Every kid takes a different approach to this, none of them is right or whatever, each path is its own.
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Does anybody know if Michigan requires string players to have an accompanist? If so how do we go around finding one?
U Michigan SMTD? I know some string applicants (violin, viola, and cello) in the past three years went without accompanist and were all accepted.
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From the violin audition requirements
Memorization of the Bach movements and your concerto is expected. Your audition program may include repertoire submitted on your prescreening videos. An accompanist is not expected or required." I checked viola and cello, same thing.
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Yes, we are all talking about that email of final audition here. That email context clearly states: VP need piano accompaniment, but BM instruments do NOT need.
Update from UCLA: the wrong audition piano accompaniment requirement was just removed and updated in web.
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UCLA: the wrong audition piano accompaniment requirement was just removed and corrected.
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@old_music_prnt I am not sure I agree 100% on the types of kids in pre-college programs who go on to Ivy type schools. I know several who went, for instance, to Harvard (and didn’t do the double degree with NEC) and then went on to grad work and careers in music. With continued lessons and performance, as well as summer festivals, it is possible to keep up.
For composition specifically, there are good arguments for going the academic route. Studying history, literature, art and so on can enhance a long term compositional career. I know PhD composers who followed an academic interest throughout undergrad and may or may not have majored in music.
There are many paths to a career in music. And of course music grads have access to lots of other paths too.
I am not naive. I have witnessed parents using conservatory prep for college admissions. But there are kids who are focused on music who truly want a BA not a BM and want the breadth and depth that that offers, as long as lessons and performance are on a par with what they need.
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I toured Bard two years ago with my daughter, who wasn’t interested in being a music major but the tour leader was a music student. He seemed to be genuinely thrilled with his education at Bard. The mandatory double major in music and something else over five years, with the students writing two different theses for their two majors struck me as a very heavy load – I agree that it wouldn’t be the right fit for all students. The campus is stunning, one of the most beautiful in the country and probably the world. There did seem to be some in-your-face drug users but there are substance-free dorms for students who don’t want to be around partiers. My sister-in-law’s family owns a summer camp nearby. The area feels remote but it’s 2-hour train ride from NYC to a station nine miles away.
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They did not need an accompanist last year.
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I believe @SnowyJoJo has a child currently at Bard in the conservatory. Not sure if they are still checking on these boards but I’ve tagged them in the hopes that they can speak to your concerns.
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