<p>^^^ Puzzled … is that not possible/not okay? I don’t think it changes what we’ve been talking about here, does it?</p>
<p>So she’s been “seriously dating a young man for a few years” but you’ve only known about it since fall?</p>
<p>Correct- ( she has lived in another state since college- we only see her a couple times year) I met him last fall ( or to be correct mid August), & now I remember that I knew about it at least in the spring, because they went back east to celebrate a family 4th of July.</p>
<p>frazzled1 - Huh? I am mystified. What do you mean? A cookbook is certainly possible and okay and I adored my grandmother and her cooking.</p>
<p>*I bought a good cookbook called “Not Your Mother’s Slow Cooker.” *
I just ordered the one for small slowcookers.
After reading the reviews for the cookbook I also ordered an oval cooker instead of a round one.</p>
<p>Puzzled- my grandma swore by Jiffy mixes especially for cornbread.
& we always followed the recipe on the package for toll house cookies.
I also use the recipe for risotto on the Lundrens bag o’ rice.
Saves time going through all my cookbooks.</p>
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This is what I am talking about, in our mind we still think there is a difference between living together vs married. When you are married, you are an unit. When you are in a relationship (even if you are living together), you could still come and go as you please. It is why people are more readily to move in together, but not to get married.</p>
<p>Sorry, Puzzled88 - I was trying to respond to post 60 but I can certainly see why you thought I was talking to you. Apologies and someday I will really have to try to get the hang of this internet thing. :o</p>
<p>I’m not passing a moral judgment on those who are living together. I don’t even see it as totally wrong if you’re heading in the right direction. But I agree with Oldford: living together is not a long term, committed relationship in the same way that marriage is. To me, marriage is forever. Living together is trying it out to see if it works. If you go into the relationship with those doubts already, then what’s the chance it will survive? Personally, I would not want to be with a person who won’t make that ultimate commitment; who wants to leave an escape route. Living together involves a relationship that is going to hurt just as much when broken up as if you were married. Why put yourself through that for something that might not work? When you know FOR SURE, then we’ll live together.</p>
<p>But that’s just me and my kids are under no obligation to see it my way. I would still support their decision and help with a wedding when the time comes.</p>
<p>Living together involves a relationship that is going to hurt just as much when broken up as if you were married.
Not always.
When I moved in with a BF, it was partially logistics & it was partially logistics when we broke up & I moved out. I remained friends with him even after I met the guy who would be my H, four years later.</p>
<p>Anyone living in the US in 2011, knows that even with the most responsible adults, staying married doesn’t make sense 100% of the time.
Although I have been married a long time, I was very young still when I married & didn’t take it as seriously as I expect someone my daughters age would.
Now I think there is a huge difference between living together & a legal commitment, at least to me.</p>
<p>Well…I’m much more conservative than the rest of you but…</p>
<p>Why are they living together, rather than marrying? It matters. In too many cases, it’s really because one person IS committed to the relationship and sees moving in together as the first step to marriage. The other is often not sure that this relationship is going to work long term and is hesitant to commit. The first thinks the second will become convinced if they live together first. </p>
<p>This rarely works. I don’t mean it never does–it does. I do mean that when the two people involved go into it with different expectations, it can create problems in the relationship. </p>
<p>Now, there are certainly circumstances in which this isn’t the case. For example, in some cases, being married makes it harder to get grants or borrow money for graduate school. The couple does plan to marriy as soon as they both get those degrees. </p>
<p>There are a gazillion illegal aliens living together because they can’t marry. There are also aliens living with US citizens and those US citizens may think that the allure is really a green card. So, they prefer to move in together and see if the alien sticks around for a while–or goes searching for someone else who will be willing to marry immediately. </p>
<p>I’m sure there are many other reasons. However, too often, IMO, someone–usually but not always the female–thinks (s)he can change the other partner’s mind if they live together. If you’re the one who is undecided, this may not be a bad deal. If you are the one who thinks this relationship is for always, it probably isn’t. </p>
<p>So, if both people are referring to each other as “my fiance” and talking about their future children, well…I don’t approve but who needs my approval? But if one is really much more committed than the other and my kid were the committed one, I’d be giving advice.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the whole thread, but I read the first post. I LOVE my bread machine, great gift if you haven’t bought one. </p>
<p>On the living together front, in my small experience, the success of a marriage is not dependent on whether someone lived together or not. A lot of you have said “it almost never works, etc” but you don’t present enough evidence either way. Most scientific studies I have seen show no relation between living together and divorce. People divorce over infidelity, money, etc and those are issues that can emerge in almost any type of marriage.</p>
<p>You’re free to use the term you want. I am an attorney and I meant an alien without a green card or with one that will expire. I didn’t mean all immigrants, many of whom already have a right to stay here and wouldn’t be trying to convince an American to marry them to stay. Indeed, one heck of a lot of the immigrants I personally know are NOT aliens; they have US citizenship. </p>
<p>And if “it almost never works” refers to my post, I didn’t say living together rarely works out. I said that when you live together when one person is genuinely committed to the relationship and sees living together as a step towards marriage and the other person is hesitant to commit and says (s)he will live together and then decide whether to commit, ir rarely works out in my own, admittedly limited experience.</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I know it’s the legal term as I said in my post, and a green card holder is a resident alien (it’s called resident alien card) but I deleted my comment already.</p>
<p>The other part of my post didn’t refer to your post specifically since you didn’t talk about divorce rates. Some people said living together was good to prevent divorces, others said it was bad, but gave no evidence either way besides anecdotes or personal beliefs. I was trying to say most studies have shown it makes no significant difference. So, if someone decides to live/not live together it shouldn’t be because of divorce rates. Sorry if you took it personally.</p>
<p>To be honest, I cannot think of one young couple I know who has not lived together before marriage. I have 5 Ds and between them, all their friends, all my friends’ children, and other random young couples, I honestly don’t know one couple who hasn’t lived together first for some period of time. It is the usual progression of a relationship here, generally after being together for anywhere from 6 months to a year in an exclusive serious relationship. My two Ds who are married, lived with their husbands for 2 and 3 years respectively, prior to the wedding. Two more Ds are currently living with longterm boyfriends, one is engaged, one is not. My youngest is in a longterm relationship but her boyfriend attends university in another city so they do not live together full-time but likely would do so if they were in the same city. I would worry if any of them made the decision to get married having not spent some time actually living together.</p>
<p>My son and his wife did not live together before being married. They did date for six years through some high school and all of college. Then he got a job, bought a house and they got married. It’s been four years. Second son and his fiance moved in together after getting engaged. Other son has never lived with a girl.</p>
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<p>I don’t think it is a negative to get married. I just don’t think that marriage needs to happen before 2 people move in together. I feel like it is a personal decision between the 2 people involved. I do not think it should be the view that 2 people SHOULD be married before they live together.</p>
<p>I guess what I am fundamentally saying is that there is no difference between living together not married on June 2nd, getting married on June 3rd, and living together on June 4th as a married couple. In my opinion, the situation that the two people are in on June 2nd and June 4th are identical, except in one instance they have a piece of legal paperwork, which does not noticeably impact their day to day lives.</p>
<p>Living together without being married lets you see what married life will be like, because it will be the same. But it allows each party an easier “out” if one of them wants/needs it.</p>
<p>“…or with one that will expire”</p>
<p>Correction. Permanent residency status has no expiration. The document does have an expiration date, but an expired document does not result in loss of one’s permanent resident staus, just like a US citizen does not lose his/her citizenship with the expiration of his/her passport. Someone with a green card does not to have to live with a US citizen in hopes of getting married and therefore becoming a US citizen someday. A green card holder is entitled to apply for US citizenship on his/her own after a certain period of time. Our SIL did not have to marry D to become a US citizen, but they did rush to get married to make their job/professional school search easier. Somehow, “my husband” and “my wife” have more weight than “my boyfriend” and “my girlfriend” when one is trying to negotiate with a prospective employer…</p>
<p>But going back to the marriage topic… OK, soccerguy, thanks for the explanation, that makes sense.</p>
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<p>My D has never lived with any of her former boyfriends.She is engaged now, but they are still keeping their separate apts.She’s always insisted that she has her own apt, but if a BF wanted to live with her, he could move in, but if there was a break up, he would be the one who would move out. I am glad this scenario never happened.</p>
<p>* I didn’t say living together rarely works out. I said that when you live together when one person is genuinely committed to the relationship and sees living together as a step towards marriage and the other person is hesitant to commit and says (s)he will live together and then decide whether to commit,*</p>
<p>I agree with this.
I didn’t think of marriage when I moved in with either of my two boyfriends & I would be surprised if they did either.
Living together wasn’t a means to an end- it was the end.</p>
<p>My daughter seemed to be spending most of her off work time at her boyfriends place & not vice versa ( he also has a very nice dog that we met at Christmas), & it probably just made more sense to consolidate.</p>
<p>I have no idea whether they are discussing marriage or not, since they are both in school, I don’t know what their plans are for after school- jobs are pretty hard to find.</p>
<p>I have several family members that have lived together but things didn’t work out so co-habitation is just co-habitation. Think of Natalie Portman. She met her future boyfriend(or whatever) while filming Black Swan and this guy was living with his longtime girlfriend.
If this were my daughter, I would suggest keeping her own space. It’s easier to break up if she has to.</p>