<p>“I’m not making any judgements”</p>
<p>You aren’t? When you describe parents picking up their children at day care and put “mom” and “dad” in quotation marks, it sure looks like you’re saying they’re mom and dad in name only.</p>
<p>Beat me to it, Hanna.</p>
<p>Ok, so what are you gals saying? You don’t think that it would be preferable if a parent spent more time with their kids than outside caregivers? Even if you CAN’T do it because of finances or whatever, you would not agree that it would be preferable? It sounds to me like Momof2 and her H go to great lengths to spend time with their kids. That’s really what matters in the end. Kids are not completely stupid, they know what their parents priorities are and weather or not THEY are a priority. Why are you guys so afraid of just admitting that there ARE bad parents out there? Why so defensive?</p>
<p>Sarahsmom42 - The post in question (#17) seems to be saying that kids who go to daycare are not raised by their own parents. (Perhaps that is not the meaning that was intended by the poster, but that is how it reads.) My husband and I are not at all unique in being parents whose kids went to daycare who go to great lengths to spend time with their kids. I would say that most parents whose kids attend daycare make their kids their highest priority. They just don’t spend much time outside of work doing stuff without their kids - their non-work time pretty much revolves around doing stuff with their kids. The posters are objecting to families with two working parents being characterized as parents who don’t raise their own kids. No one is defending BAD parents (working or stay-at-home).</p>
<p>Actually, I would have loved to stay at home. My motivation for going back to work after four years was not for luxuries or career satisfaction (though I did get a lot of the latter, little of the former) but to be able to provide my kids with what they needed.</p>
<p>In addition, I had been divorced once and felt that I never again would be financially dependent on anyone else. And yes, I have taught D this. Now if she marries someone very able to support their family and she chooses to stay home, I would definitely support her decision as long as she had a profession she could pursue should she need to.</p>
<p>Of course, there are bad parents who don’t have their kids as a priority. Some of them are stay-at-home moms, like my mom. Her priorities were her hair, nails, lawn, getting the approval and admiration of the neighborhood. Anything but her annoying too bright, too inquisitive daughter who did not comform to the suburban script she was following. She often said, “Oh, I should have sent you to private school, but I didn’t want to bother. Sorry you were so bored.”</p>
<p>I’m am sure this is not true of the stay-at-home moms on this thread; I’m also sure it’s not true of the working moms on this thread.</p>
<p>I will say that I cried every night for six months when I had to go back to work. But I was crying for myself, not my kids. D was thrilled in nursery school (she was 4), and S (who was 2) started life very shy and withdrawn and needed many years of socialization before kindergarten for him to be open enough to really thrive there.</p>
<p>I spent oodles of time with them (and they with me), and they have absolutely always been my first priority to the extent that friends and relatives made fun of me (and said I was stunting their independence, which wasn’t true either.)</p>
<p>I once asked them when they were around 10 and 12 if they would like me to quit work and they were both horrified. They were happy that something else occupied their over protective mom.</p>
<p>I did take a one year sabbatical when they were 6 and 8, and I must say, it was heaven. I loved it. Don’t think it made much difference to them though because they were in school the hours I worked.</p>
<p>It was a hard job working and keeping everything going here. I really don’t know how I did it, either.</p>
<p>That said, I think the defensiveness is because bad parenting is somehow being discussed in the context of working, whereas it is really quite independent of this variable.</p>
<p>I hope I am not coming across as defensive because I don’t feel defensive at all. I know I made the only choice I could for my family in my situation; and in the end working gave me the feeling of being an adult, that I had a place at the table.</p>
<p>For those of you who felt comfortable being at home and could afford it, you have as much respect from me as do mothers who work(ed); as much, but not more.</p>
<p>Who’s denying that there are bad parents out there? We’re saying that whether parents hire nannies/day care is not a predictor of whether they are bad parents or good parents.</p>
<p>“you would not agree that it would be preferable”</p>
<p>I really think I can’t know what would be preferable or not preferable for some stranger’s family when it comes to child care, as long as the kids feel cared for and loved. It’s preferable for each family to figure out what works best for them, without guilt trips from others who do it differently. I don’t think any stranger is in a position to tell me that what went on in my family was less than optimal, so I try to bite my tongue when the tables are turned. Goes against the grain, but I try.</p>
<p>Hey, mythmom, my kids once asked why they couldn’t go to daycare, like all their other friends! I think you found a wonderful balance – you were home for part of the day, and were still able to keep your career going. That’s a real balancing act.</p>
<p>Does anyone here think that their choice was easy? I don’t! Living on one income, and moving around the continent to allow my husband to put his career on the best path was a real sacrifice for me. I loved being home with the kids, but it wasn’t easy financially. But I also don’t think it is easy for my working sisters, who struggled to balance childcare issues etc. </p>
<p>If being a mom was easy, men would do it! (Just kidding, guys.) But I agree that being a good mom is not so much a function of whether or not you work outside the home, but is more about how much your heart is in the job. </p>
<p>At the end of this journey, I think we all just deserve a pat on the back – and a big margarita – and just be happy we’ve all survived intact.</p>
<p>sjmom2329: I agree, and know all the moms writing here want the best for their kids and I bet others’ kids, too.</p>
<p>And I hope we all want the best for each other, too. Individual circumstances are so varied, that I don’t think any generalizations work in this area.</p>
<p>I had difficulty with friends who had nannies and day care and did not work, but just played tennis all day, for example.</p>
<p>But then I figured, I am I to judge? If they hated being home with their kids, better that they weren’t. My mom was one of those who hated it, and I just wished she worked.</p>
<p>My of those friends just sent her very successful son to MIT and seems to have a happy family, so my biases are really just prejudices (maybe envy, but I hope not.)</p>
<p>
I generally hate generalizations! I don’t like it when people make all kinds of assumptions about me based on my lifestyle, political party or religion. I reserve the right to be unpredictable.</p>
<p>Hanna, I understand, but I get so tired of the “anything goes” party line that seems to prevail on this board. Not everything is ok and sometimes it IS strangers who tip off social services and save kids that are being abused and neglected. I just think that people get sooo defensive when anyone has an actual opinion about anything and it gets really old.</p>
<p>sjmom2329: And I’m sure you are!</p>
<p>Sarahsmom42: I am not taking this personally at all, but why wouldn’t people who feel attacked get defensive? If others are judging their lifestyle and choices as less than their own, isn’t defensiveness a normal reaction? Especially in the area of our kids where I think most of us are especially vulnerable.</p>
<p>OK I win some kind of very bizarre prize on this thread.</p>
<p>I stayed home for four full years, until S was 1.5 years old and D was 4. Went back to work part time. Went back full time when he was 7 and D was 9.5. Have been fulltime for the past 10 years. Did not want to BTW, wanted to stay home and have more kids, but finances did not allow.</p>
<p>And I nursed my daughter until she was 3.5 and my son until he was over 5. Because I had to wean my daughter when nursing two proved to be too much and I was determined to let my son wean himself.</p>
<p>So I think if we have an algorithm that weights full time work and time spent nursing I win. For my prize I want the power to grant every woman the right to make the choice she knows in heart is the correct one for herself and her babies without one soul ever telling her she is immoral or a bad mother.</p>
<p>I don’t exempt bad mothers. But with my winnings I exempt all mothers with full love in their hearts from the choices they make.</p>
<p>Who was judging? It’s all relative? Have you seen the “piercing” thread? I’m being hung out to dry because the way that I choose to honor my parents is not ok with some of those folks. It’s just such a bunch of crap!
alumom, Well put!</p>
<p>Not everything is OK, but day care and nannies ARE OK. They’re not for everyone, but they are OK. They have nothing whatsoever to do with abuse and neglect, which are everyone’s business.</p>
<p>Of course I have opinions about the domestic decisions of people I know. I even ended a friendship once because I felt that to continue would be to condone the friend’s untenable choices. But it’s one thing to have an opinion when you know the family and their situation well and quite another to make generalizations that denigrate millions of parents you’ve never met. Share that opinion with the denigrated folk, and they will indeed get mad.</p>
<p>“the way that I choose to honor my parents is not ok with some of those folks.”</p>
<p>Funny, the way my mom chose to take care of me is apparently not ok with some of the folks on THIS thread, and they’re letting me know about it. It’s pretty irritating, isn’t it?</p>
<p>I admit there were definite economic motives (it wasn’t based on some kind of moralistic principles) involved with me being a SAHM. We ran the figures and it turned out that with H’s ability to work a little OT (we lived, literally, 1/4 m. from his workplace), coupled with my ability to make a part time living doing something else, turned out more economically feasible than me working full time. That was in the short run (until they went to school). Then after that, my part time job became slightly larger, and after school sports started up, then music lessons (requiring me to drive/help), cub scouts (same), etc… </p>
<p>Basically, it was an economic decision. I could go back to work right now, but here I am still teaching music lessons. I think H would LIKE it if I worked full time (more money!) but I’m not ready to. I’m enjoying what I do too much. At this point, it has nothing to do with the kids, though, and it hasn’t for a number of years. </p>
<p>I look at it this way- if the family is happy, and functioning happily, and things are working out great- then why change a good thing?</p>
<p>Who ever said that nannies and day care were equal to bad parenting? It certainly was not me. Now I’m getting defensive!! Sheesh!</p>
<p>I thought the point of liberating women was to allow us to have choices. The choices are our own. No one gets to second guess us, because they don’t walk in our shoes. I say this as a SAHM for 15 years … working part time 3 years … now full time for all intents & purposes (substitute teaching every day). My own choices were not easy to make, and they didn’t come without some sacrifices. I don’t assume for a second that any other woman had an easier time with her own choices, nor would I assume she did not sacrifice in her own way. And for what it’s worth, men have their own issues to deal with when it comes to family & job.</p>
<p>I am constantly reminding students to be responsible for THEMSELVES. We adults need to remember to do the same. Unless someone’s choices lead to me having to pay directly for their mistakes, it’s none of my business.</p>
<p>I have always felt a little sorry for the kids who are there for before and after school care, arriving at 7:30 a.m. and being picked up at 6. It seems like such a long day for a kid, and especially the babies. But I don’t fault their parents, or think they are bad parents, because I don’t know the circumstances that makes such a situation necessary, especially because, for some people, working long hours really isn’t a “choice”; it is simply the reality of what they have to do, particularly in expensive cost of living areas.</p>
<p>OTOH, I <em>chose</em> to work in a lucrative specialized area that has allowed me to be home with my children for after school hours, although I frequently have paperwork or phone calls after school or in the evening. My earnings do not cover day to day living expenses (which my husband’s salary does), but expensive lessons/camps/programs for my kids (try keeping kids in multiple instruments at an elite level…it is $$!). I would never have it any other way though, and don’t begrudge the work I have done, or do, because I know it has provided incredible opportunities for my children that we could never have afforded otherwise. Oh, and when my husband WAS out of work, twice in the last ten years, I carried the financial end of things until he was on his feet again. I cannot imagine what we would have done had I not been working.</p>
<p>It is my choice to work, but I know there are people who do because they have to, in order to have a roof over their heads, and I think they deserve respect as well.</p>
<p>
I agree. But I do wish that people would extend the same respect for SAHMs. This thread is not the only one that has gone the way of the “mommy wars.” As a mostly SAHM, I have often felt marginalized in discussions on CC. I don’t think I’ve ever slammed a working mom – I’ve walked in those shoes, and they aren’t always comfortable. But I can’t count the number of times that I’ve been derided for my lifestyle choices, and I don’t think that’s fair.</p>
<p>“Who ever said that nannies and day care were equal to bad parenting?”</p>
<p>As we pointed out earlier, a previous poster put “mom” and “dad” in quotation marks when referring to parents who use day care. That’s not subtle. And in the midst of a discussion about not judging strangers for their use of nannies and day care, you said:</p>
<p>“Not everything is ok and sometimes it IS strangers who tip off social services and save kids that are being abused and neglected.”</p>
<p>I have no idea why abuse and neglect entered the discussion, but I wanted to make a clear distinction that day care is not on some kind of continuum of “ok-ness” with abuse and neglect, and the fact that strangers rightly intervene in cases of abuse and neglect has nothing to do with the appropriateness of strangers denigrating one another for their child care choices.</p>