College for a kid interested in statistics and international relations

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My S22 currently is interested in statistics/actuarial science and international relations. He doesn’t know if he wants to do research in either. As of now, he prefers an urban or suburban campus. We are in MA and he has attended programs at MIT and Harvard. We have seen a number of LACs in the northeast and in the mid-Atlantic (including VA) parts of the US, but he is shying away from colleges in locations that are difficult to get to.

He would prefer a school with 5,000-10,000 undergrads, but there are not many with a statistics major. He does not want to do an IR major, but would consider a minor. He is looking at schools as far west as MN and as far south as FL. TX is borderline.

Stats-wise, he is in the top 10%-20% of his quite competitive public school, which does not rank. There are about 450 students in his grade. At the end of junior, UW GPA is expected to be ~3.8, and W GPA, ~4.2. He will complete six AP courses by senior year (US History, Biology, Statistics, Computer Science A, Physics C, and AB Calculus). He took the ACT just before the beginning of his junior year and scored 35 (M 36, rest 35s). He took SAT Bio E subject test after his freshman year and scored 770. There are no other tests. He is an ORM.

He has worked at a carryout food joint for the past year (~20 hours per week). He is not athletic, but participated on a club wrestling team for a year and a half until COVID struck. He is on his school’s QuizBowl team, and has a leadership position in another EC that teaches middle school students business concepts and web page design. He is into sports as a spectator but this is a minor consideration.

His current college list, based primarily on colleges that have strong stats programs and reasonable strength in IR/political science, includes the following:

UMass Amherst
UConn Storrs
UMN Twin Cities
UW Madison
Ohio State Columbus
Purdue
NC State
U Rochester
Case Western
Carnegie Mellon Dietrich School

I am trying to get him to consider Emory, Rice, Macalester, Indiana U Bloomington and Carleton. The last two are not urban or suburban, but appear to be strong in stats and IR/political science.

We have also seen Amherst College and Williams, which have strong stats/IR prorams since these are drivable, but he did not seem enthused. I am also concerned about the prep/jock culture at these two schools that some CCers have highlighted. They are tough to get into, anyway.

We can afford all of these colleges, but will obviously consider merit scholarships. Value and a good college experience are more important than prestige.

Are there any any other colleges that should be on this list, given the major and geography preferences? Any on the list that you think are not suitable? Thanks for any advice.

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Make sure that you understand where Actuarial Science is taught at each university. At Wisconsin, it is in the Business School. That makes acceptance more difficult than the general university. It can also impact his ability to double major/minor. FYI, Wisconsin has no minors.

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Unfortunately my daughter is just figuring this out, and she’s a senior. She’s now leaning towards business school, but she applied to some actuarial programs not in the business school.

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@Eeyore123 Thank you for your response. He is not inclined to apply to business school. So he would apply to the stats program at UW Madison.

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U of Denver. It is farther west than the Mississippi, but MUCH easier to get to from Mass than several of the schools on your list. Airport is about 20 miles from campus, but he could take light rail (for free) all the way. It is urban but in a very nice neighborhood. It is his preferred size (about 8000). It has a very good IR program. It doesn’t have a football team but is a D1 school and competitive in hockey, skiing, lacrosse(M&W), and gymnastics (W).

The stats major is in a business school, but it’s a good business school. They do offer merit.

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@twoinanddone Thank you. U of Denver does not have a stats major, and he does not want to major in IR. I agree it is easy to get to. We did look at Colorado School of Mines initially, but it fell off the list.

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If some of the classes that would interest him are in a different college/school within the university, make sure that he would be able to take them. Some business schools will prohibit or severely restrict non business students from taking business classes. Others may only allow registration after all business students have registered. Also, it is generally way easier to transfer out of business than into it at schools that have direct business admissions.

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I’d suggest he check out Lehigh University in Bethlehem, PA. There is a small Statistics major, graduating about 10 to 15 students per year, and they offer a Faculty Advisor devoted to Actuarial Science.

Lehigh’s IR program enjoys Observer Status at the U.N. Lehigh has a long tradition of study abroad (which is one reason I attended) and Schools of Engineering, Business, Health, and Arts & Sciences. Class size is about 1200 per year.

Another school with a strong actuarial science department is St. Joseph’s University in Philadelphia. He would have a strong shot at SJU’s Honors Program.

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It’s a little below Virginia - but Elon is a nice school and would fit. Pitt is a bit bigger but is urban. Miami of Ohio another - but it’s 45 minutes from a city. How about Rochester?

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It sounds as though he doesn’t know yet what’s out there that might combine his interests, and also doesn’t know yet about where else stats might take him. I’d suggest that rather than looking at IR, you look at schools strong in Geographical Sciences, which often shades into IR, and is more amenable to statistical treatment than IR often is. I’d also suggest just looking for overall fit, because you’re talking about someone who’s 16 or 17 and has a pull in a general direction but is really just starting to look around. Look for a place where he’s likely to make friends – they’ll likely last longer than the major does.

Lehigh has a very strong IR dept for its size/rank but I wouldn’t advise it for stats.

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S20 was interested in a stats/marketing degree. We looked for stats programs. They’re tough to find but a few things we learned.

Stats can be housed in the business school. Data Analytics has created some hybrid programs.

Stats can be called Bio Statistics in some schools and housed in different schools.

Last and most important is that many schools don’t offer a bachelors specifically in Stats but do offer a concentration in Statistics under a Math degree. Don’t get caught-up in names like having a “Bachelors in Stats”. A “Bachelors in Math” with a concentration in Stats means the same thing basically.

We had to really dig around websites and ask a lot of questions. S20 did a good job but sometimes 17 year-old’s don’t really want to dig or know which questions to ask. I’ve learned a lot the past two years for S20 and S21’s searches.

Every kid is different and all the schools on your list are top notch but the real question is where do you think your son will thrive? What does he need? Some top kids need to surround themselves with similar peers to thrive. Some top kids just want to enjoy the college experience.

If a school like CMU is affordable then maybe expand your list by looking at some of the Ivies. If the cost is prohibitive then look at public schools or privates that offer merit. That said, large merit scholarships are very, very competitive even for high stat kids. Columbia has a math-stats major. There’s other like them.

http://bulletin.columbia.edu/columbia-college/departments-instruction/mathematics/#requirementstext

NC State is also one of my favorites but it’s a big school. Pretty campus, decent weather and they have a top-notch stats program. Your son most likely would get into the Honors program and be competitive for the Parks scholarship.

If you’re still looking at large public schools, look for honors programs and other types of programs that offer individual attention. Large schools can be great but being in a big pond can be overwhelming sometimes. These programs help with that.

S20 ended-up at Georgia Tech. After 1st semester he transferred into their ISyE program. Kids change their minds when they’re exposed to different classes. Good luck.

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As much as I love Purdue it doesn’t tick off the urban/suburban or size boxes.

Case would be a great fit.

Also second Lehigh and also Pitt.

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Before putting too much weight on the IR side of things, ask your son to spend some time reading the course descriptions for the classes required for IR. IME, IR is one of most misunderstood majors going, and I know many, many students who are all about IR until they take an actual IR class & are bored to tear with the theory! IR is a theory-heavy field all the way through. Help him tease out what “IR” means to him. At the undergrad level it’s going to be harder to find a good stats program that he likes than a good-enough IR program- IR and it’s cousins Public Policy / Political Science / International Studies / etc are evergreen majors, which most colleges do reasonably well.

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My daughter applied, they gave her $28,000 a year.

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@Mjkacmom -do you mean your daughter was offered $28K from Lehigh or St Josephs?

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Sorry, Saint Joseph’s, I don’t think anything from Lehigh. She only applied to SJU because her best friend’s mom made her, and that they have a good program for her major (according to my daughter, she did most of the research).

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Thank you all for your suggestions.

He has looked into curriculum requirements and the statistics programs in the Big 10 schools/NC State/ UConn usually have more faculty and electives. That is part of the reason he is gravitating towards stats. The ASA has a list of schools that have offered the largest number of undergraduate and doctoral graduates in Stats and Biostats, and that formed the basis of our list.

@1stTimeThruMom Lehigh is an interesting suggestion. We had not considered it, and will look into it. SJU does not have a stats major, but we will investigate it as well.

@collegemom3717 made a great point about IR. He has had a great teacher for US History. That teacher is teaching an IR elective next year and that appears to be the source of the excitement about the field.

@chmcnm He has looked at the Industrial Engineering program at GaTech. He is not sure if that appeals to him. don’t think he will be competitive for the Ivies, given his class rank estimate and ECs. If we had to target reaches, CMU, Emory and Rice would be appropriate in my opinion.

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Has he decided on stats rather than actuarial science? In your first post, you listed both. I ask because while Saint Joseph’s University does not have a stats major, they have one of the best actuarial science programs in the nation, ranked #8 by US News.

The just retired CEO of AIG is an alumnus, and he is actually in residence now.

Looks like Philly deserves a spot on your college visit list: Temple’s, Penn’s, and SJU’s actuarial science programs are among the top eight in the nation.

SJU’s IR department participates in the Washington semester program; the others probably do so as well. It’s a great program.

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@1stTimeThruMom He has seen some ‘What does an Actuary do’ videos and read a bit on the SOA site. He thinks he may take actuarial science courses (and perhaps exams) if that is part of the statistics or math department. I think that actuarial science may be too narrow a major and he currently agrees, but it will be his decision.

We have family in the Philly/Delaware area, so thanks for the pointers about Philly schools. Penn is going to be tough to get into.

Part of the reason he is interested in urban/suburban schools is diversity. He is of south Asian origin and it is unlikely that a school like Elon would be a good fit, based on the demographic info in the Elon CDS as well as comments of parents on CC.

@momofboiler1 noted that Purdue doesn’t fit the urban/suburban criterion. That is correct, but I went to engineering grad school at Purdue and know that at least the STEM areas, which Purdue is known for, have a diverse group of students. I think he could do well there.

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I wouldn’t necessarily use most grads in Stats as the end all list. It’s a fine first pass but you’re weeding out smaller programs that might be a great fit.

If he’s seen a few rural colleges and has no interest I would scratch those off the list and not waste the application fee/time.

If your son is one of those kids that likes to be surrounded by peers I would reconsider adding a few T20 schools on there like Columbia, Duke, Chicago, and NYU. They’re a reach for everyone but you can’t hit a home run if you don’t swing the bat. As long as he has a couple of safeties he likes it’s good to have some high reaches on the list.

Your son does have work experience. Don’t underestimate that as an EC. Most schools consider it for admissions. Some weight it more than others.