I think most degrees aren’t directly applicable. Even my son in engineering says so. I know neither of my two degrees was. Accounting, obviously, would be an exveption.
I think I only perform a fraction of what I learned in school to be honest. It was more foundational, then when I got to the work place, there were more things to learn and skills to attain afterwards. I do zero tax accounting, I don’t do any statement preparation, etc. I do a lot of compliance, policy, analysis, and forensics, which I didn’t really learn in school.
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There are plenty of schools in the “public Ivy” bucket that offer direct admissions to business. The term “public Ivy” isn’t really an official classification of schools, but rather one invented by a writer to sell a book. Depending on who you ask, there are anywhere from 8-50 public Ivy schools.
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That’s very true. Thanks for clarifying that. My D had a very specific criteria of what she wanted in a school so we didn’t have any public state schools similar to UVA with direct admit on our list. But I’m sure others can research and find a good list for them. We just ended up touring and apply to the private schools with direct admit that were similar to UVA since they were closer.
The Econ I studied was more theoretical. I ended up as an analyst in management consulting and finance. I liked my classes but struggled a little on the job without really applicable skills. This is my baggage though and I’m not saying don’t major in Econ. It just seems like there are a lot of different majors you can do if you don’t get into the business program that can be just as useful as Econ in finance or business if you still have that as a long term goal.
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My brother told me this too. I just wasn’t sure if it was just him. So it’s interesting to hear it from another Econ major. He’ll probably feel very validated. He actually ended going to grad school as result.
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Wasn’t UIUC on the list at some point? That’s a direct admit school.
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Yeah. My daughter and I have been discussing UIUC too. They are a lower-semi IB/MBB target because of their ideal location to the Chicago financial district. But we’re still thinking through that one. I have talk to some people in the financial services industry to get their thoughts, but I haven’t gotten anything compelling so far for her to want to go there. We have some school informationals to sit in on too.
For anyone that may be considering UGA, we visited Terry College of Business this weekend. My DD absolutely loved UGA - the campus, the feel, the people. Really wonderful place. My husband and I were very impressed. If Terry was direct admit she would have committed on the spot. We took the Terry specific tour and they are frustratingly vague about the whole process, admission rates, etc. They jut kept saying if you study and apply yourself you will be fine, and by the way, you really need to do well on those first year, weed out accounting courses. Plus, don’t forget that you really need to get involved in some business organizations to show commitment and interest - but did we mention that they are all application based and have an admission rate of 20%? It really scared my DD, who has not had any exposure to accounting. She is concerned about having to do well in a class that contains brand new content that she will be studying for the first time. I myself did not do great in accounting, but excelled in finance and have had a career in the field for 30 years. I probably would not have made it into Terry. She is also put off by having to apply to almost every Terry Club. DD likes to take her time finding the right fit and wants the freedom to explore any club that sounds interesting. I will say that the handful of Terry students with whom we spoke did seem pretty relaxed about the whole thing and did not seem overly worried/stressed. Lots of mixed messages, unfortunately. We visit VT in a few weeks and then, hopefully, she will make a decision. We are fortunate that finances are not a consideration. Mainly interested in the right fit for her to spend the next 4 years.
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With a student admitted to UGA and wanting Terry this is a little worrisome. I am not sure of how worrisome. I assume he will get in but what if he doesn’t. The direct admission schools alleviate much of this. Son really like UGA though.
I can really relate to this post. You know what I wished me and my D had done during the application process. (I don’t think it would have actually changed her mind. But it certainly would’ve given me more peace of mind in her decision.)
I recently checked which companies recruit at one school and not the other. I also looked at the outcome reports for the back up major she would’ve likely chosen if she didn’t make it into the business program at the non-direct admit school. It gave me a good idea how many kids were employed, how much they were paid, and how many were pursuing further education or unemployed. It also gave me a good idea of what industry and possibly the geographic region the back up degree would have likely led her to. I did this exercise with all her schools, but I wasn’t able to find a student outcome search tool for VT. Also, I looked at the internal/external transfer rates. I’m finding that the external transfer rates are actually easier at some schools than the internal transfer rates. (I felt like it was a lot of information for my teen to process, so I did most of the research, and then just mentioned what I found in passing. If she wanted to see the information for herself, I showed it to her. Also, I feel like when my daughter was getting vibes about certain schools, she was sensing some of the stuff that I probably wanted more concrete answers for. Maybe your D’s vibes will pick whats right for her.)
Anyway, good luck. I hope you find the decision process a lot more easier than I did.
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I hear UGA is incredible; glad you had a great visit. It sounds VERY similar to our experience touring KF at UNC in Nov. I’m guessing all of the non-direct admit flagship b-schools are similar. The student ambassadors were very laid back and said they didn’t think admittance was a problem. They even went as far to say they didn’t know anyone that did NOT get in the 2nd time. However, plenty of others have said other wise, as does their 50% acceptance rate. Like at UGA, it was clear, you needed to hustle, bust your butt, network (join all the clubs…) the first year to stand a chance. From reading forums like this, at UNC, it was a bit of a wild card process…the better stats didn’t always make it in. But once you get in the b-school, at least in UNC, it sounded very laid back. No classes on Friday, lots of networking events, plus things like yoga on the lawn, crafting, wellness activities…honestly, sort of crazy what all they do, or rather don’t do. Guess it’s another example of the direct correlation between risk & reward… high risk, but great reward if you can get in.
Good luck with your decisions! An exciting, but stressful time!
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There are hundreds of career paths (many exceptionally well paid) that are not consulting or investment banking.
Just need to put this out there. I think it’s a mistake to choose a college on the basis of who recruits there. None of us can predict the labor markets five years out (if we could, we’d be at our beach houses in the Seychelles, not posting on CC during a boring phone call at work).
I’ve seen recruiting targets (both the where and the number) change on a dime. October 2008-- Wow. The company I was working for at the time (a prestigious employer but not an investment bank, but which hired lots of BA’s AND MBA’s) went from “Get the offer letter out ASAP” to “We need to sit on this to see where it’s going”. I was incommunicado for a religious holiday in mid-October (before the meltdown) and logged back to find a few hundred frantic emails from senior leadership “Stop the presses”. We pulled teams back from their “meet and greet” events the next day- literally just had them fly back to their offices.
Where it went was Lehman-- poof. Bear Stearns- poof. And the trickle down impact on the entire “hire smart college students” industry-- unbelievable. I’ve seen studies which show that four and five years later, the cohort which graduated into the financial meltdown (both 2009 and 2010’s) were still feeling the impact.
Kids who love finance and want to pursue it professionally- fantastic. Pepsico hires for finance. GE hires for finance. Siemens hires for finance. Pfizer hires for finance. Your state government hires for finance. The federal government hires for finance. But all of these entities also hire kids with econ degrees and history degrees and literature degrees and urban planning degrees.
Kids who are using their four precious years of an undergraduate education as an apprenticeship to an investment bank or PE firm-- what a waste of four years. There are zero guarantees that the company you want to work for will want you- or that their nearest competitor will be hiring for the skills you have. So get an education first and foremost. You have the rest of your life to grind…
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I agree. These are some of the reasons why we aren’t feeling any loss over choosing the direct admit path. But I have read posts online of some kids that really wanted an IB/MBB path and were disappointed they were unaware of their school’s limited recruitment offerings in that area.
YAAASSSS…
There is also something to be said for building the lifestyle that suits you. When I explained to my D how much travel consulting entailed, she asked “how do you have a dog? or boyfriend?” Good question.
Husband has a degree in poli sci…but is super gifted at sales, and has a passion for building sales teams. I know not everyone loves sales, and it’s looked down on, but for those that have the personality, it can very lucrative, and fun. He is very well compensated, we can choose where we live since he works remotely, and he has the flexibility to go coach the kids lax teams in the evenings. He has no advanced degree, I quit working my corp finance job years ago. It’s a good life without MBAs, IB, or the like. He has a buddy that is in IB in NYC. Sure, he’s wealthy, but it’s come with alot of personal cost.
Most of these schools place in IB and big consulting. Even schools at a lesser level.
They are not feeders and the kids need to work harder and have grit and determination. Possibly a connection. And some luck.
But there are kids, from VT as an example who are I Bankers and Consultants. It’s not black and white.
Either that or they are lying on their LinkedIn profiles.
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This is a reality in spite of what others may say. When looking at LinkedIn profiles you don’t have the context of the role, other considerations or the path to the job. At some schools it is extremely hard.
Not impossible but hard and showing exceptions doesn’t change the realities of how IB recruitment works.
Completely agree with this! I have never met a 17 year old that had any idea what a banker actually does.
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There are so many ways a kid can get derailed from the IB/MBB track. Again, setting this as the goal at age 17 seems ridiculous to me. Especially since VERY FEW kids have any idea- at all- what the actual work entails.
I’ve heard from college kids who are “prepping” for their case interviews-- “why does consulting involve so much math”. Or college kids who have “done” the right things for IBanking- the right ECs, the right course sequence, the “perfect” resume, who have been derailed by a question during a pretty straightforward behavioral interview. And then they are heartbroken that there are no do-overs. Except of course- go to Business School, do the “right thing” all over again, and try again.
There is a world of interesting jobs that are not Goldman Sachs and McKinsey!
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Last I checked one person or their firm doesn’t hire all the I Bankers or consultants of the world.
Many say you must go to target schools and yet many recommend Fordham, as an example, which is on no list.
Big banks have many jobs like other companies -marketing, HR, finance etc. but if someone lists as an I banker or consulting role ( which also runs the gamut) I’ll take them at their word.
Many colleges today have teams of students managing portions of the endowments or other investments and are getting direct experience which is helping as well.
Here’s one such future consultant who will start in and hopefully work himself up the ladder. He’s not the only btw.
Not saying it’s easy. But it’s not non existent nor close to it.
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Not possibly a connection. In my opinion…probably a connection.
I wouldn’t say listing a place on LinkedIn says anything…except the location of their work. There are plenty of employees at these places who don’t have college degrees…at all. And they can still list McKinsey or Goldman as their employer, right?
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