<p>Sorry. I was trying to point out how using money as leverage to influence a child’s decisions might cause unintended, far-reaching negative consequences.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>That’s not being asked in this case either. Nothing in the OP says anyone is being cut off from their parents. The non-Mormon parents cannot attend the temple wedding, but unless the parents choose to cut themselves off over that issue, no one is cut off.</p>
<p>I know a young woman who wanted to marry someone who had legal problem, family problems, drug problems, psychological problems, financial problems. He was no good in just about every category you can imagine. Of course, the parents were not happy about the situation, to put it very mildly. They were heartbroken and sick about it. They tried to talk sense into their daughter, tried to buy time, but she got pregnant and eloped.<br>
These things happen. There are some lines that we just don’t want to cross since our personal morals get upended, but in any case, it can aggravate an already bad situation to get angry, insulting, threatening.</p>
<p>I live in a state with high population of LDS (Mormons).</p>
<p>The “norm” is for men to attend freshman year of college, usually BYU or an affiliate, then head off on a two year mission. They return at 21 and most often meet and marry a freshman or sophomore. Returned missionaries are prime candidates for marriage, and LDS girls are encouraged to only fish in that pond. The couple usually continues with their educations, and can live frugally at the very-available married-student housing at these campuses. Often babies come before the wife can finish college. It is expected that LDS families will have five children, so time is of the essence. </p>
<p>I’m surprised that the young man in this story isn’t on his mission, or planning for one. I can’t offer any solutions, but even by LDS standards, this is rushing things a bit.</p>
<p>I’ve been to a good many LDS wedding receptions, held at all kinds of venues: back yards, fancy hotel lobbies, but as a non-member, I cannot enter the temple for the ceremony.</p>
<p>I think the challenge for parents is to love their children no matter what their decisions. I agree with je ne sais quoi that money used as a means of control can only have negative consequences.</p>
<p>I do understand those who feel that married children should be self-supporting. I respect that position, but I don’t share it.</p>
<p>Yes, it would be painful to be excluded from my child’s wedding, but I would try to accept it and move on. The child isn’t the one making the decision.</p>
<p>Wow - nothing new under the sun!
25 years ago, at Northwestern, I had a roommate who converted to Mormonism to marry a young man she met there. She married after her junior year in the same situation you are describing: Her family paid for everything and smiled through their tears even though they weren’t even allowed at the ceremony. (And God forbid they get married in the church where the parents can attend and be sealed for life later that day. Nope, had to do the whole temple thing from the get-go.) She did finish NU (I believe the parents still paid) but I’m sure she popped out the first of many kids shortly thereafter).</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Source please. Been LDS for almost 50 years and I missed the 5 kids rule.</p>
<p>I married at 20, I stopped my university education to work full time, buy our first home, etc. Our first DD was born a few years later and I was blessed to be able to stay at home with her, so I started taking classes part time and eventually finished my degree. DD already had a degree and was able to work full time.</p>
<p>No parents paid for any expenses of every day life, though they did kick in with all sorts of little things, like having us to dinner, sending a random $20 etc, just as we do with our grad student DD who is on her own paying her way (we get them through undergrad with no debt, the rest is on them)</p>
<p>DH was actually a bit annoyed to pay for my college, he actually once voiced the thought that my parents should be paying. Of course, we never asked them and I did not have a quintessential college experience!</p>
<p>Since D3 only has one more year, I guess I don’t have to worry about this hitting my family, though we do wonder about D2 in a 5 year LD relationship and whether she will make it to grad school or stop making life difficult and marry the guy (wonderful guy, I would just like to see her finish her goals)</p>
<p>D3 attends a small private Christian university and according to her many kids, even freshman have ‘drunk the kool aid’ and are aiming to get married, many continue to attend school living in nearby apartments, I would assume their parents are paying.</p>
<p>D3 is amazed how many people want to get married young and often it is their first serious relationship. We suspect it is a way to avoid having sex outside of marriage, but it is worrisome that they may not be choosing a life partner and lifestyle with their eyes wide open and the chances of all of them having the strength of character to make it long term, to mature together, are slim.</p>
<p>Hi ellemenope,
I used to babysit for an LDS family and often read bulletins from the bishop, left on the coffee table, out of curiosity about the church teachings. I recall more than one article clearly stating this as a goal for each family. This was a few years ago. Maybe the norm has changed. My husband is an OB, and this number holds up in his patient population. This may be closer to the truth in Utah and the immediate surrounding states, and less so in cities with lower LDS populations.</p>
<p>There are plenty of incorrect stories about many churches. I’m certainly not trying to pass judgement, or spread false information on this one, but do think the prevailing norms for this church are part of what’s being discussed. If my information is dead wrong, thanks for the clarification.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I can tell you that there is no official goal of family size for each family. If the bishop stated that such was a church goal, then he overstepped the boundaries of his authority.</p>
<p>More on LDS birthrates from a church sponsored website on geneology: This is a much-enlightened view compared to years past. I know…way off topic, but I wandered down this path, and thought I’d better check my facts. To the OP, maybe this information would help inform your friend’s daughter about the idea that waiting to start a family might be an acceptable choice.</p>
<p>"Today, the average Mormon family size tends to be around 4 children per family. Compared to the past, this is much smaller than early Mormon families; however, it is still approximately double the average family size of non-Mormon families. Historically, speaking Mormon families tended to have at least six children and it was not at all uncommon for families to have far more children than that. Families consisting of nine and ten children were not considered to be out of the ordinary in the least. </p>
<p>One of the reasons that family sizes seem to have decreased is the lessening emphasis on avoidance of birth control. Historically, it seems that there tended to be a strong emphasis on not using birth control; however, today the matter of whether to use birth control or not seems to be largely left up to couples to individually decide what is right for them."</p>
<p>OP, I haven’t read this whole thread, but do these 2 currently go to BYU? I actually know a girl who is recently engaged and went to my high school who meets just about every criteria you have listed… seriously. Not meaning to get personal, just curious.</p>
<p>Though most of us are not thrilled to get the announcement that our college students want to get married before they are self sufficient and in our opinions, mature enough to undertake that responsibility, it makes the situation terrible when the prospective spouse is not someone we like, for whatever reasons. I have friends who, though not approving of the marriage, were able to do well with the situation when the new in law fits somewhat into what they expected. The road is a lot rockier when there are other issues as well. The kids do not have to be in college for this disapproval, either. I know a number of marriages that self sustaining adults entered that were met with tight lipped acceptance or downright disapprobal from their parents. The reasons can range from the personality of the intended to some societal problem that the intended has that are not things that anyone wants. They can also just be background differences. Sometimes parents are unreasonable and just expected too much.</p>
<p>gstein-they don’t go to BYU but i’m sure this is a very common scenario as students getting married before finishing college is very very common in UT.</p>
<p>Ellemenope-I don’t know of a magical number of five but I do agree after 20 years of delivering babies in a Mormon culture average family size is tied to the culture and religious teachings. </p>
<p>Twelfth LDS President Spencer W. Kimball decried the philosophy that marriage and children should be considered only after certain goals in life have been met. “Too many young people set their minds, determining they will not marry or have children until they are more secure, until the military service period is over; until the college degree is secured; until the occupation is more well-defined; until the debts are paid; or until it is more convenient. They have forgotten that the first commandment is to ‘be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it.’ (Genesis 1:28.) And so brides continue their employment and husbands encourage it, and contraceptives are used to prevent conception… The Church cannot approve nor condone the measures which so greatly limit the family” (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 328).</p>
<p>^^^ I always laugh when people post link to statistics regarding something someone has posted to dispute it. I always think these people have way too much time on their hands. So the fact that I just had to look up Momon scripture or doctrine and post something makes me the biggest loser of all! I confess.</p>
<p>hey, me too, nurseratchet. Who knew there were so many website devoted to LDS doctrine? Ane that I would be quoting one! Ha!</p>
<p>God has a great sense of humor. For the first time in 15 years at this house, two Mormon missionaries visited me today. We had a lovely visit.</p>
<p>^^ they are very nice, well dressed young people!
And if you do not want to talk religion, they will talk about many, many different subjects 
All leading to a baptism…;)</p>
<p>Just an update on this family. Parents are going to counseling session #1 on Monday! This is huge because the dad is a very stubborn guy. I emailed the DD and offered to sit down with them and go over all of the financial stuff and what they’ll need to plan an expect. She seemed very excited about it as they are currently getting financial advice from a classmate who isn’t working, married and the 19 year old wife is pregnant “but they have money left over at the end of the month!” I did ask the parents if this option would be ok with them before I offered and they were very happy too as any discussion of finances has ended in yelling and hanging up on the phone. I have no plans to mention the marriage or wedding at all. I know from experience because of their culture and beliefs they won’t be changing their mind on marrying no matter how hard their future will appear on paper. Thanks to everyone for the advice. This girl finishing school and keeping the close relationship she’s had with her family is the ultimate goal. Hopefully with these interventions this will help!!</p>