College Sophomore wants to marry

pugmadkate · February 9, 2009, 2:41pm

I disagree that maturity is dependent on age in the same way it is dependent on experience.

Again, I take issue with the idea that no longer paying for college is inherently a punishment or not putting a child’s best interest’s first. For me, it was a vote of confidence that I am very proud to have lived up too.

There are different ways of marking the end of one’s childhood. Choosing to got to work and support oneself is one way. Getting married is another.

When my son decides to end his childhood dependence on us, our input in his life will go away unless asked. It’s simply not my business once he is independent. Who he decides to marry, what religion he joins or, really, how he lives his life is up to him. Of course I have my hopes and dreams. Yes, there are decisions that would upset me greatly. But those are my issues and I’m not going to visit them on my adult child. If we’ve not impressed our values on him by this point, it’s too late.

My son will always have my love and emotional support. He’ll have no bigger believers in his ability to make his life work than his parents (and, I hope, his spouse.) That he will not always have access to our money does not change that.

CountingDown · February 9, 2009, 2:49pm

My feelings run along the line of owlice’s. We assumed that if we were old enough to get married, we were old enough to be self-supporting. (We didn’t have enough $$ for an engagement ring. In fact, I got mine for our 25th anniversary!) We don’t have parents who gave us money for a down payment on a house, tuition for grad school, help w/college for the kids. We got married at 22, had kids just before 30.

My parents financially helped my sister who went through two marriages (one at 20, one at 25) before finding someone who actually believed in working for a living. (After marriage #2 dissolved, she lived in Section 8 housing and got AFDC while she earned a BS in accounting. You go, girl! :))

Perhaps a reality check for the lovebirds would be for the mom to sit down with D and future SIL and have them discuss their proposed budget – i.e., make them come to the meeting with one prepared.

DeirdreTours · February 9, 2009, 2:52pm

Emeralkity4- I don’t think I would be at all bothered by one of my children marrying someone of the Hindu faith. The LDS view of women is what makes me shudder.

In addition, I am very uncomfortable with the praying to convert people after death (like the bizarre LDS project to post-humously convert the holocaust victims), the refusal to admit all to services (aside- an acquaitance of mine was once asked to be a bridesmaid for an LDS friend and was NOT ALLOWED TO ATTEND THE SERVICE. She and another non mormon bridesmaid stood outside, on the steps, by themselves while the ceremony took place) and all the other little things that say: We are the only correct christians in the world and all of you are going to hell.

nurseratchet · February 9, 2009, 3:28pm

There is definately a bizarre fascination with this religion. DeidreTours-they don’t just pray for the dead to convert, they baptize them by proxy in their temples. That’s why they have such an extensive geneology database. This is very upsetting to people of the jewish faith as well as family members of holocost survivors as their names, birthdates etc are available and records show many of them have been baptized mormon although the LDS church has agreed not to. Adolph Hitler has also been baptized mormon in case anyone is wondering about his salvation.

[Mormons</a> Attempt to Hide Temple Baptism for Hitler](<a href=“http://nowscape.com/mormon/hitler_temple_records.htm]Mormons”>~~|~~ Mormons Attempt to Hide Temple Baptism for Hitler)

Non Members or those “unworthy” of a temple recommend may not enter the temple or attend a wedding there. Most will marry in the temple and have a ring ceremony and reception after for those who cannot enter. A temple marriage is one of the important things to them as it’s tied to eternity/salvation etc.

atomom · February 9, 2009, 3:30pm

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned, but IMO the biggest red flag is that this guy is on workers comp disability with a back injury. I’d tell my daughter to RUN. (Yes, HIS family is probably happy–thinking that she will “take care” of him and support him?) It is possible that this young man may be fine after surgery, but I wouldn’t take a chance on marrying someone who is already disabled with a back injury. He may be in chronic pain and disabled for the rest of his life. He is not looking like good husband material to me.

That said, if she insisted on marrying the guy, I would still pay for her to finish her degree. I would also ask D to arrange a civil ceremony that everyone could attend–this is only fair to both sides of the family. If she refuses, I’d keep my mouth shut and attend the reception --or whatever-- peacefully.
I don’t really have a problem with the age of marriage–I’ve seen many young marriages and most of them did work out. It is not what I want for my kids, though. I’ve also seen some real heartbreakers with different cultures/religions etc., and it always seemed most helpful for the long-term family relationship if the marriage is accepted and the “undesirable” in-law is treated as part of the family. I’ve seen some turn-arounds as a result of heroic tongue biting, kindness, maturity. This family will be especially concerned about maintaining a good relationship since this is their only child.

I believe antidepressant and tranquilizer use are higher among religious groups that forbid alcohol use.

Kelowna · February 9, 2009, 4:20pm

Someone above has mentioned that in the case of mormon couples a baby is usually on the way shortly after the marriage. Absolutely true - I actually do not know any couples that have waited a few years. Something to consider
It is also very normal for a mormon girl to not get a college degree till she is in her late thirties, early forties and all the kids are out of the house or at least in HS.

Another “little detail” that would have me extremely worried if my DD were to marry an LDS man is the fact that “new converts” by marriage tend to lose contact with family and friends. This might sound crazy, but from what I have observed it seems to be the norm. Even if family/friends are respectful of the new faith something happens along the way and contacts become lose, to say the least. It has probably something to do with worries about new church member missing her old life etc. , and I believe they are actively encouraged to cut their old friendships and form others, within the church community.

Nurseratchet - father and mother live in seperate houses? Could they be FLDS?

blossom · February 9, 2009, 4:24pm

There could be 50 red flags instead of the five or so that people have mentioned, but the fact remains that unless these people want to lose their relationship with their daughter, little is to be gained from alerting her to the fact that he might be a loser- or is definitely a loser- or his parents are for sure losers-- etc. Where’s the upside in all the teeth grinding here?

So worry away, but it’s time to get practical and come up with a plan that allows the D to finish a college education both for her own sense of self, as well as to be able to support herself if the H never gets off disability.

Kelowna · February 9, 2009, 4:30pm

Blossom - maybe this is exactly how they should phrase it - you need a college degree in case your husband to be never gets of his disability, so let’s think how we can pay for it :)

nunya · February 9, 2009, 4:43pm

I agree with the red flags on this guy being a productive member of society if and when he gets this back surgery. Who knows if he’ll be able to provide for a family next year or ten years down the road. Oh, sure, the girl is all in luuuuuve with him today, but if he’s still on disability (if it doesn’t run out) or is in fact a loser, then what? She’ll be saddled with kids and no means to provide for herself if she left him. Depending on just how religious he is, divorce might not be an option. As much as I’m against free and loose sex, I’d say encourage them to move in together, cut off all but basic college tuition and let reality smack them in the face.

Also, what’s this about his parents living in separate houses? Does this mean what I think it means? How many wives does the dad have? How educated are his parents and siblings?

mythmom · February 9, 2009, 6:00pm

When children choose significant others parents have very little to say.

My S is very serious about a girl who is so shy that she won’t talk to me or only gives one word answers. S says she is not like this with friends or him.

Do I like this? No, not at all.

I am trying to stay positive because I adore my son and have nothing against the girl at all. I hope someday if they do get married (which they are planning) she will be able and willing to talk to me.

I have made it clear to each of them that I like her. This is for many reasons, including the fact that I really do love most young people.

However, in a contest between her and me, I’m pretty sure S would choose her, and if I were negative enough she has the power to prevent him from having a relationship with me. I know of families in which this has happened.

As for supporting them if they were married, I can understand that people feel differently about this.

For me, I reiterate the fact that I would continue to support my S through college graduation, single, gay, straight, married, living with, whatever.

It is my pleasure to send him to college. I don’t want to forego it. (And yes, I have to scrimp and save.)

If he said, “Mom, I’m married now, I’ll take it from here,” I wouldn’t argue with him, but I wouldn’t instigate that situation either.

I don’t think the religion of the spouse should have any role in the evaluation process.

churchmusicmom · February 9, 2009, 6:07pm

Kelowna, the young couple I mentioned in an earlier post have been married for two years now, I believe. No babies in sight And the boy’s parents, one of my best friends, married young as well but waited a few years to start their family.

These people are not ignorant and not “cultists”. They just have firm beliefs which they stand by. i do admire that, even though they are not my own beliefs.

cptofthehouse · February 9, 2009, 6:13pm

I’m with Garland, Marita, and Soozievt on this one. I expect to “help” my children even after they graduate from college as I able and willing. If the marriage goes into directions that include things that I do not want to support, I won’t do it.

Any time your child decides s/he has a significant other to whom s/he is making a life commitment, there really is no benefit for the parents to start getting nasty about the relationship. Yes, concerns should be voiced and realities laid out so that your child can share in your knowledge and fears. However, if they go ahead against your advice, that really is their privilege. Just as it is yours to to choose what and how you want the future relationship to be.

There are many bad relationships between generations because of the reactions when the marriage plans are announced. Things get said that are not forgotten for a long time, or ever, that can really make life less pleasant for all involved.

marite · February 9, 2009, 6:31pm

I’ll tell a story that made a deep impact on me. It happened when I was in my teens. A distant relative deeply disapproved of the young man his 21-year old daughter wanted to marry–and for good reason. The young man was spineless and mother-ridden. Her father told her that if she married against his wishes, she should not expect to come back if things did not turn out well. The marriage failed in large part because the MIL was awful and the husband unable to stand up for his wife. The daughter was too ashamed to go back home, thinking that her parents would not welcome her back. She committed suicide. Her father told my mother: “Why did she not come back to us? We did not mean it.” He kept on saying that he could have helped her deal with the awful MIL and at least welcomed her back when the marriage failed. Too late. These are two of the saddest words in any language.

nurseratchet · February 9, 2009, 7:26pm

I spoke with the parents today and the dad has been having anxiety attacks and chest pain and the mother is still a mess. They are both going to go to counseling to get through this. DD’s showing her immaturity by blaming them for her not being more ready to be an adult and not understanding what is involved. I would think distance is best at this point until they talk to a counselor first and work through this stuff. They’ve laid out all of the numbers and consequences if she goes through with this and her only reply is “I just know it’s right”. This semester is already paid for but they are not going to keep contributing to her bank account, pay for cell phone etc. She has 5 months to really see what life is going to be like. I agree with that. She won’t go into it blindly. They get so caught up in the wedding planning here that they forget about the life planning. I am confident that this girl will finish school. The boy however, is another story.

tinkerbellsmom · February 9, 2009, 7:31pm

I think if a couple decides to get married or live together and play house then they are switching loyalties. From parents to spouse, and that is as it should be. And when that happens, then they shuold be on their own, as they have each other for support. Isnt that what a relationship, a committed one is all about? If you think that you are ready to commit fully to another person, then you should be fully able to commit to yourself.

If my daughter married young, I would be sad, I wouldn’t emotionally cut her off, but why in the world should I support financially her spouse? That spouse is not my child and there is no reason nor should there be an expectation that my H and I should be responsible for another adult not related to us, that my child has decided to bring into her life.

And one must be very careful with helping vs enabling.

I would bet you this couple wouldn’t be so quick to be all grown up and married if they actually had to take care of themselves.

I would never cut my daughter off emotionally, but unless I see both of them carrying quite a bit of the load, there would be no impetus for me to support a married couple with normal day to day life.

I see that there is no benefit to not letting the new couple flounder a bit and struggle. Life isn’t easy all the time, and to me, if they are choosing to make a life altering decision, there are consequences…good and bad…bad meaning that you know have another adult to count on, and who you are responsible to, and are loyal to, beyond your parents, and that is as it should be. But with that decision, comes the responsibility.

cptofthehouse · February 9, 2009, 7:39pm

My friend’s niece married after her first year in college. Born again Christian who was with a crowd that married early. The parents were not happy but kept things civil. They did not shower money on the couple but just gave what they felt was right. They did continue to pay their daughter’s college costs, and a bit more. She did graduate. She also got divorced a year or so afterwards, and is now in grad school, a much wiser woman. My friend gives her sister a lot of credit for keeping her cool during a time when she disapproved entirely of her daughter’s decisions. Yes, some damage done, but so much more could have occurred.

marite · February 9, 2009, 7:57pm

This story is so complex. Is the problem marrying young? Marrying a young man the girl’s parents disapprove of because he may not be able to support his wife or at least contribute to their joint finances? Marrying a Mormon? Being excluded from the wedding?

mythmom · February 9, 2009, 8:18pm

marite: Your story was chilling and underscores my point that I will always be supportive of my children, and if financial support is needed, I will try to help as best I can.

In such an uncertain economic climate I think generations need to pull together and not have rules and edicts.

A married child is still my child. And I have no difficulty in helping support a spouse either, if that is what is required.

I have very limited resources but I would rather use them to ensure my children’s futures and the futures of any potential grandchildren.

tinkerbellsmom · February 9, 2009, 8:21pm

Here is what the parents need to realize, the parents of the woman, she is a woman, who wants to get married.

And I am going to yell it!!

IT IS OKAY IF LIFE IS HARD…

My husband came here to America with nothing, worked, lived with 5 other guys, etc. People traveled across the plains in wagons with no idea what they were heading to. People traveled in boats in the worst conditions.

It was hard.

If this girl wants to get married, she should be on her own. Let her struggle, let her whine, let her have some discomfort. This is her choice.

She is healthy, she is not being hit, she isn’t being abused, she is making a poor choice, but it is her choice.

If I were her parents, I would say this:

We love you, we wish you well, and now that you are getting married, you are responsible for yourselves, you have each other to count on now and that is the most important thing. I know too many couples who had a rough start because mom and dad stuck their noses in, were busy buddies, asked too many questions, were too controlling and that made it hard on the couple, so while we may not be asking lots of questions, or bothering you about work or school, or any of that stuff, and are treating you like a pair of adult, after you get married, who we know can take care of themselves, know that no matter what happens, we are your parents and love you very much."

There may be rough times, so what? So they eat mac and cheese for weeks. There is nothing the parents can do. If they are too negative, this young lady, who seems to be fairly immature, will push back as is typical of the teenager she emotionally is, though she is legally old enough to live her life.

I find it unusual that neither parent is Morman, but the girl is. People that convert during their teen years, well, that is often a flag anyways.

My BIGGEST fear would be my daughter moving back home with a baby, or being in a cruel and abusive relationship. I have a sense about the fiance, just from what is posted here. And my fear would be that as his frustration grows with not working, taking care of his family, she is at school (which I can almost promise she will NOT), is that his frustration and immaturity may cause him to lash out.

So that is why I wouldn’t coddle my daughter in her pre wedding bliss, I wouldn’t emotionally cut myself off, her parents may be the only ones she can count on if it get ugly.

But if they are just a young couple living in a small apartment, getting by, eh, let em. I guess the difference for me is that this is a choice this couple is making, not an accident, a natural disastor, she is choosing to marry this dolt who doesn’t work. Its not like she is choosing Prince Charming. She is opting for this life.

And if you choose to make foolish choices, then you should live with the after affect. If her husband was a hard worker and she had a clue, and he was suddenly out of work because of an injury, but was trying, that would be a different story.

Generations should pull together, but that means everyone pulls their own weight, not just looking for family to do it all.

If had a realative who had to move in with us, becuase they lost their home, I would gladly take them in. However, I would have to see something, if there was no work, then volunteering for others, helping out, etc. I bet this fiance’s back is just fine, btw.

And I find it sad that a religion excludes families at weddings… Sad indeed

soozievt · February 9, 2009, 8:41pm

tinkerbellsmom, when my parents put me through college and grad school, I did not see them as supporting my husband. My parents paid my tuition and living expenses as they would have if I were single and living with my BF. They paid my half, so to speak. My husband’s family paid his schooling. My husband also had a part time job during grad school and we worked in summers. Each of our parents put us through school. When we graduated, we supported ourselves.

College Sophomore wants to marry

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