<p>I began supporting myself when I was 17. I paid for everything, including my education, and worked and worried about how to pay for everything. I do believe that, GENERALLY, when kids get married they are on their own financially. However, in this case, there are clearly red flags about the earning potential of the SIL and his ability to be a provider/contributor, so I think paying for the daughter’s education is a good idea. And by paying for college, I mean giving the money to the school, not the newlyweds. They can figure out how to pay for their contact lenses, health insurance, and other household expenses on their own. If the daughter is now blaming the parents for not raising her to be independent, then that is not logical (as she is declaring her adulthood and independence by marrying in the face of strong opposition from her parents). That is where I think a good therapist will come in handy. We get what IS, not what we WISH for. The frustration comes in when we think we can change situations that are clearly not in our control. The parents can control two things: their relationship with the daughter and SIL and whether or not they contribute financially in any way to the daughter’s support or education. Once those choices are made, all they have to do is live with them. If I were in their situation, I would keep my daughter close, as it may be the marriage does not work out and I would want my daughter to have the means to leave the marriage. I also understand that the parents may be so furious that they just cannot condone the daughter’s behavior in any way, including any financial support. I hope counseling helps them and I hope the OP will give us an update later!</p>
<p>Another thought… Kids get married at 19 with no plans for college. They are married for 3 years and then ask if you are going to send them to college now that they are ready. Do you pay? Or are they adults now and have their own responsibility? You might be able to afford college for them if you are lucky but they have a ton of debt, a big screen tv, a new car that they can’t afford. Is it still mom and dad’s responsibility?</p>
<p>my cousin and his (then) girlfriend got pregnant when they were 18, right out of high school. they were 19 when the baby was born, and they were living in an apartment together. they then moved into a house that they were renting, and saved up money and got married when they were 20. about a year ago, her parents had some issues and needed a place to live, so the parents asked to move in with the kids. they wound up renting a larger house, and are now splitting the rent on it. </p>
<p>the whole thing just seems really backwards to me. normally when something like that happens the parents wind up taking care of the kids, and here these kids are (soon to be 22) taking care of the parents. their kid is 2 and a half now and is absolutely adorable. he’s a smart little guy. my cousin has a well paying job and his wife is a stay at home mom working part time when she gets some hours.</p>
<p>it is never the * duty* of parents to send adult children to school.
In most cases legal obligations end at 18.
However, if the couple you mentioned can show that they have a commitment to returning to school & by proving that by downsizing and saving some money- I would offer to match their savings.</p>
<p>This girl isn’t being kidnapped into marriage, she is making a wide eyed choice to marry this guy. So she knows what his financials are, knows how they will live and is making an informed decision. Why should the parents in one breath treat her like an adult and support this marriage and in the next treat her like a little girl who needs to be taken care of?</p>
<p>The daughter should have to live with her own decisions, or is she not at all responsible for her own life? </p>
<p>Should the parents be stuck living with each and every lame choice their daughter makes and pay for them? </p>
<p>I don’t think so.</p>
<p>it is never the * duty* of parents to send adult children to school.
In most cases legal obligations end at 18.
However, if the couple you mentioned can show that they have a commitment to returning to school & by proving that by downsizing and saving some money- I would offer to match their savings.</p>
<p>I got married after my first year of law school. Thankfully, my parents continued to contribute to my tuition without a second thought. They supported my education, and my decision to marry was irrelevant. The money had been set aside for my education, and that was that. Had they attempted to use their financial support as a weapon to avert the marriage, it would have seriously damaged our relationship.</p>
<p>Some have suggested that the daughter in the OP’s story had known from the time she entered college that marriage would end any financial support from her parents and is now unfairly trying to renegotiate the deal. I don’t see that stated anywhere. Instead, it appears the parents used the threat of cutting off support to try to force the daughter to abandon her marriage plans. That’s quite a different situation. By taking this path, the parents have done nothing but alienate their daughter and made completion of her degree unlikely if not impossible. They will have a bigger bank account, but a tenuous relationship with their only child and, no doubt, with their future grandchildren. How can this possibly be a desirable result? They should admit their mistake, wish their child all the happiness in the world, and continue to pay for the education that is no less important now than it was before.</p>
<p>Marite is right on the ball - this is not only about her education. It is about her age, about religion, about her husband to be. A lot of emotions on the plate.</p>
<p>Nobody is bashing Mormons.
I think that those of us that live in Utah are just trying to paint the picture of a traditional Utah Mormon family for the rest of the posters. It is very different from the rest of the country and, Churchmusicmom, very different from Mormons practicing their faith outside of Utah. </p>
<p>Under the Banner of Heaven is not a good book to explain this. It talks about the FLDS Church - the fundamental one. I see women from plural marriages in stores on occasion, but they form less than 1% of the society here, probably even less than 0.1%.</p>
<p>I honestly feel that the biggest problem for this family to swallow is the religion issue. The whole education issue is just a cover up, easier to talk and fight about, easier to talk to friends about. This feeling comes from living in Utah for the last 11 years, not being a Mormon and having a daughter. Like Nurseratchet said about her daughter, mine will also go to college away, for sure!!! Even though I consider Utah to be a wonderful place to raise a family ( well, the school funding sucks , but on the bright side you only need 202 on your PSAT to be a NMSF!)</p>
<p>As far as the cost of the wedding/reception - nothing in Utah compared to the rest of the country. The marriage ceremony takes place at the Temple, not your local church, and only “the mormons in good standing” can attend. This basically means that not only those of different faiths can’t attend the ceremony, but also the Mormons that did not get an OK from the bishop (same as pastor) to attend the Temple can’t get inside. I really do not know the cost of it, but can’t be high, probably just an offering to the Church and maybe even zero. As for the reception part - majority of Mormon receptions in Utah are the saddest thing in the world, believe me. It is basically a two hour open house, most often at the stake center (church hall), where you go in , shake the happy couple’s and their parent’s hands, sit down to have some punch and cake and voila, you are on your way! No dancing till midnight, no elaborate dishes! My DH comes from an area where weddings are extremely elaborate, three day affairs. To him the traditional wedding in Utah is …do I dare to say it???..more sad than a funeral.
We went once to a wedding reception that was held in a beautiful garden, with violin music and nice appetizers, even wine for non Mormons. Still, it was a bare 2 hours. Mom of the groom, my very good friend, invited us to a dance party the following evening (the evening following the reception) since she knew that we are used to BIG weddings. The dance was held strictly because the bride was from the country (Bolivia) that “required” dance at wedding reception. It was a sad dance!!! Only colored people (plus us) danced!</p>
<p>I am not bashing Mormons or LDS religion. Most of my friends/neighbors are LDS. Fantastic people to be around. Do not complain of anything, helpful and very friendly. </p>
<p>(for the record - I left my parent’s house and got married at 20, with their blessing (civil ceremony) and had a proper church wedding at 22. First child arrived at 27 . No monies taken from my parents since I left the house, we actually paid for their trips to attend our weddings, put ourselves through college and grad degrees etc.)
But - I do not won’t my daughter to marry at 20, like I did!!!</p>
<p>Kelowna, I don’t want my two daughters to marry at 20 like I did either. But if they did, I would not alienate them. I would not change my intentions to support their education. I would try to advise them to think it all through. I have to say that I can’t imagine either of my daughters making this choice. However, I would be there for them if they did. </p>
<p>I don’t understand the mentality of the OP’s friend who told the D…“we will only pay for college if you don’t get married.” Their goal is for the D to go to college. Her getting married is not stopping that. Ironically, their failure to pay for college could be what stops it. Typically, a concern might be that if your kid gets married, she won’t finish college. But that is not the case. Here, we have a kid who might not finish college because the parents are pulling the plug on it.</p>
<p>I think what we have here are parents unhappy with the marriage and doing whatever they can to make it harder for the D to go through with it.</p>
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<p>Exactly! Trust me when I say that RELIGION is a big issue here.</p>
<p>Soozievt - isn’t it morning in you neck of the woods? Are you insomniac? :)</p>
<p>Kelowna, I often stay up late. My job is in the home and I don’t have to get up super early to send kids off to school (empty nest) or to commute to work. I also feel sick and so am vegging. I also have advisees on the West coast and in fact, as I am typing this, one just wrote me. </p>
<p>Anyway, I feel badly for these parents but I don’t think getting angry at the daughter is helping but will drive her further away. I think they are looking for any mechanism to keep her from going through with the marriage and that could backfire. I wish they could sit down and discuss the issues with her rather than make it adversarial.</p>
<p>Ha, I am off to bed shortly.
Utah is a beautiful and strange, at the same time.
I do feel strongly for the parents in question. They do love the daughter,they hate what is in front of her. I really do not know how best to play it. My own is going OOS for college for sure! 
Good Night :)</p>
<p>Im not insommniac, but I just picked D up from work.</p>
<p>I have a different perspective I know from most parents on CC.
Neither I nor H, have ever attended a 4 year university.
While I have attended a community college- I paid for it myself- parents on either side did not offer to pay for a CC, even when we were fresh out of high school ( I was 18 & H was 21 when we met)
Both of our daughters have taken/are taking one year off after high school before beginning college, we all feel that time spent in college is important- albeit expensive and want the girls to make the best use of their time.
We feel- ( this includes daughters view as well) that being older, is to their benefit, as they will have gotten a lot of " OMG my parents aren’t here" out of their system, unlike many college students.
When you are distracted with campus life, new boyfriends or just so much " new", it can be hard to focus on your studies.</p>
<p>Even if I was thrilled my daughter was getting married early in her college life- I would suggest not trying to finish college and start a new household at the same time- I think that is an awful lot to ask of someone, especially when they also have financial challenges. Either wait to get married until finish the degree, or go back to school after the distraction of new husband, new family settles down.</p>
<p>Kelowna added to some of the background of living here, let me finish. Most mormons will save for their sons to go on a mission when they are 19 for their whole life. It is an expectation. It is about $4000 a year for 2 years. Some have 2-3 kids on a mission at a same time so it’s a struggle for some families. But it’s an expectation. I raise my kids that college is an expectation and pay for that. Most kids marry young here and the parents do not pay for college at all. They work and go to school part time and marry at 19 or 20. I sent my kids to catholic school to shelter them from the culture here. My coworkers look at me like I am a freak because I pay so much for this and I also sent my DD to an out of state college and pay for that too. But my daugther was raised from the beginning with my stories of 19 and 20 year old moms ( I deliver babies for a living) and how this is something I never would want for either of my kids. Going to college, not getting married young, not having kids young is something i’ve taught them since they were little. Just as the mother of the girl we are talking about here. Since parents paying for college is not the norm here, the girl’s mother told her going in as long as your grades stay high and you don’t marry and start having kids at 19 like the rest of your friends from high school I will provide this for you. This mother isn’t wealthy. She was a single mother till the age of 38! While some may look at this as conditional or control I do not. If my son tells me at 18 he wants to get married he certainly isn’t getting the same deal as his sister. They’ve known for 18 years this is the deal. Private school was to help them to go to college one day and also to influence them as they’d be surrounded by kids and parents who think like us. My coworkers mostly have adult kids they support or live with them. They got married young, divorced young, had kids young and cannot afford to live on their own. But that’s their norm and their parents do it because they lived with their own parents at 19 too when they married. To me it’s nuts just as 40k a year for college is insane to them. </p>
<p>The religion for the girl in this story is another angle. Her mother was born Mormon but never practiced it. She raised her to be very open minded, spiritual and the girl was also very much made aware growing up here about the negative aspects of this religion on women etc. The girl’s father (who adopted her at 17) was not born Mormon but converted to it for his first marriage. His experiences were awful and he divorced and left the religion. (he found his neighbors looking in his garbage for beer bottles and that was the final straw!)I really think if the girl hadn’t sprung it on them like she did they could have warmed up more to the idea that this was the choice the girl was making for her religion. They both have mormon relatives and have seen the good and bad of the religion. But the girl marrying in the temple is making a statement that she intends to go into this marriage and the religion following all of their beliefs and practices. While there’s different degrees of being Mormon this girl is not choosing mormon lite by getting married in the temple. It’s not just a place for the ceremony, it’s a declaration and a commitment.</p>
<p>Had the girl gone to college out of state I do believe this would be a totally different scenario. I warned her mom that the influence is so great here that this might happen. Trust me, right now she’s hating herself. That doesn’t mean the kid wouldn’t have met a guy at college, or converted to muslim or whatever. But I can tell you my DD on the east coast isn’t surrounded by married college students at 19. Life is just different here. Just as parents paying for grad school for their married children on the east coast might seem the norm to some and insane to others. So this girl knew the parents conditions and wishes up front with paying for college. She has a choice, she is an adult. Just as my kids have known for a very long time what my expectations and wishes are for them. I tell DD now that when she gets married don’t expect a huge wedding after I paid for college. I’d rather give her money towards a down payment on a house. The biggest gift I’m giving her is to graduate debt free. So if she tells me down the road she wants a big reception I’ll tell her good luck with that. This should come as no surprise to her as she’s heard it for a long time. Just like go to college, don’t marry young and don’t start having kids at 18!!!</p>
<p>When she gets married to a spouse who is not capable of supporting her, then she will have to work. Full time or full-time+. If she is working full time, she will not be able to go to college full time (or perhaps at all). </p>
<p>This makes the question of whether to pay for college completely and utterly moot.</p>
<p>But hey, the parents could always say, “If you want to go to college, borrow the money. If we see your grades are reasonable, we will pay off the loans. If your grades are bad, then the loans are on you.”</p>
<p>BTW, I am not saying that her husband has an obligation to support her. That would be sexist. I’m saying that if he leans toward the “bummy” side of things, then their support will become her obligation. Hence the need for a full-time job.</p>
<p>^^ I do see the parents at one point helping them to pay off the loans. But I do think it’s good for her right now to have to scramble to figure out how she’s suddenly going to pay for all this with a BF who collects workman’s comp, needs surgery and has all these bills before she just focuses on picking out flowers and buying a dress. The life she is choosing may be hard. Better she sees now what she has to expect.</p>
<p>The whole marriage thing is difficult, I know. When I was a freshman in college, we were all amazed to hear that one of our classmates was getting married. We all liked him but he was one of the last ones we expected to be making that transition as we thought he was young for college. Well, he met a girl, fell in love, and was engaged before any of us realized it. His family was blindsided and upset about this. I’m sure some harsh words and threats were exchanged. They were paying a lot for him to go to a private college. He had med school aspirations, and the profile to make them come true. Marrying at age 19 was not what anyone expected for him.</p>
<p>More than 35 years later, they are still married and happy. But the resentments that came with the parents reactions back then still affect family relationships. Even though the parents backed off, continued supporting their son educationally, things were said that just are not forgotten. Cindysphinx is right. It just is not worth alienating a future in law and making your relationship with your child estranged.</p>
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<p>I think this is the key statement. If the D was explicitly told that a condition of college funding is that she stay single, the daughter has made the decision to go without the funding, by choosing to marry in July.</p>
<p>Unlike apparently many here, I do NOT see not funding a married daughter’s education as mean or nasty or whatever. I think it is possible (and indeed, to my mind, preferrable) to be loving and supportive and kind to the D and her intended, AND not provide college funding. That does NOT mean closing the door once the D walks through it. </p>
<p>Were I in the position these parents are in, I might be amenable to giving the couple a cash gift for their wedding present. It would be much less than a year’s tuition, but enough for them to use for something useful (setting up housekeeping, or deposit on an apartment, or some such). I’d also consider having a tea for some close friends to honor (if not celebrate) the wedding a week or so after the ceremony, assuming I were barred from the ceremony. </p>
<p>Or maybe if I were Dad, I’d want to have a chat – real soon now – with the young man, to see what his intentions are regarding supporting my daughter. What are they going to live on, what are his prospects? And I might also want to know why he didn’t ask for D’s hand in marriage, and convey my hurt and concern over that, because that just seems a low blow.</p>
<p>Or some such. </p>
<p>Yeah, I’m liking the wiser-guy-to-young-dude chat idea; could let the young dude know that when he marries the D, he’s marrying her whole family, just as the D is marrying his whole family. Time to find out whether the young dude is made of stern stuff and will step up to the plate, I think! :D</p>
<p>From nurseratchet’s post (#134), it sounds like the mother is fully aware of the implications of marrying as a Mormon. My sense is that she tried to raise her daughter to take a different path, and is struggling with her daughter’s choice to follow her (Utah-LDS) peers.</p>
<p>It’s sort of as if she raised her d as a civilian on a military base and she’s decided to join the army.</p>
<p>I wonder if the d wants to continue as a full-time student at this time. If the mother continues to pay tuition, I’d say she is continuing her efforts to share her values with her daughter. She might also want to put some money aside to help her daughter with childcare, to give the daughter a chance to pursue her education and maintain some independence, once the grandchildren arrive.</p>
<p>The mother is best acquainted with the kind of life her daughter is likely to live as a Mormon wife. She should think of what she can do to enable her daughter to retain elements of what she had hoped for her, had she chosen not to marry so young.</p>
<p>I’m sorry Fendrock, but I just snorted my morning diet coke out of my nose when I read the part about the parent putting aside money for the kid’s future child care expenses.</p>