College Visit-Uncomfortable w/ Activities

Parents Forum
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<p>Ah, paying3 – you know him too well. His winterterm course is a workshop in THE TEMPEST with both academic and theatrical elements. I bet he will say “alas” a lot. He has also played the violin in productions when needed.</p>

<p>I am sad to say he has missed many concerts to do very important things like being at parties, or the night of the lute concert, watching ALADDIN on TV with entry mates. I believe the girls almost kicked him out for his “cynical”, their word, comments. He mentioned that they also watched Mulan. Can’t bear to find out which concert he missed for that. </p>

<p>Haha. When he’s a declared music major he’ll have to attend. It says so right on the website. Hmmm. Maybe a classics major. Second choice may start to look good.</p>

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<p>Just looked up fire dancing on youtube. Pretty cool! Or should I say pretty hot?</p>

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<p>Cocomom, its really all about choices. Kids in HS are exposed to some nasty stuff, and the smart ones stay away. I have never heard of fire dancing, but it sounds cool if done safely. I guess the clothing optional movie sounds dumber to me. Like, what kind of club is that? Just wow.</p>

<p>There is a spectrum of activities on most college campuses, from sailing, to debate, to acapella, to I guess… Roman style orgies. No-one is forced to go, and no-one is scorned for not going, and that’s what is fantastic about it. Trust your D to make smart choices.</p>

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<p>I, too, had never heard of fire dancing. The potential for injury would be more of a concern to me than any activity involving nudity. Fire dancing sounds like an activity which should be done by individuals who are expert at the technique, don’t you think? </p>

<p>The nudity issue seems to grab everyone, so to speak. :wink: I remember a few years ago, a friend of mine whose son was at Univ. of Chicago was startled to see a photograph of him in a group shot in the student paper (which she read online) running in the annual winter snowrace. What startled her was not that he was running (he was a longdistance runner through h/s) but that he, and everyone else was totally nude, except for their shoes! Another friend had a son at Luther College in Iowa, quite a religious place, and one of their big school events in the spring is naked soccer.</p>

<p>You can’t protect or shield your college aged kids from things like this. In fact, I don’t think you should even try.</p>

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<p>My son just told me he’s hosting a prospie as we speak. I wonder what Thursday night activities he took him to…</p>

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<p>Your D did very well. Once she is out in the world she will have to make choices upon meeting all kinds of people. Sounds like she has her head on straight. You should be proud of her and let her go. And while we didn’t have clothing optional parties back in the day, we did have STREAKERS!</p>

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<p>We had bra burners in my day too but for a totally different reason. However the skill to do it while still on seems quite an awesome feat to me.</p>

<p>On a more serious note, students so inclined will find provocative was to act on most college campuses. Nakedness abounds on many Ivy League campuses. However such activities under the auspices of the college or the college union is not as common.</p>

<p>I remember my undergrad days when the students across the hall in my apartment building were causing a bit of disturbance with the loud stereo. I knocked on the door to ask them to turn the vol down a bit and when the door opened i observed about twelve totally naked student sitting on the floor in a circle passing joints around. it all seemed both unusual and normal at the same time. And yes they turned down the vol.</p>

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<p>I did some fire spinning as an undergrad. I admire people who can do it well. I wasn’t very good at it - too uncoordinated and phobic about burns (even small burns were rare, and I knew this, but logic doesn’t always trump instinctive reaction). Because of my lack of skill, I always wore a hoodie over my clothes when I did it, to make sure I didn’t catch my hair on fire.</p>

<p>We didn’t really have naked movies or parties because nudity wasn’t a big novelty or shock factor. There were certain living groups where nudity around the living group was socially acceptable, and the people who liked being naked or nearly naked lived in those, and went around naked when they felt like it. Those who didn’t, didn’t. Those who didn’t like seeing other people naked lived in more conservative living groups. There was no problem.</p>

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<p>I agree with this. Trust her judgment; she seems to have a good head on her shoulders.</p>

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<p>I would worry less about your D’s judgment than the school’s own take on what is appropriate entertainment for prospective students. I think overnight visits are in a sense a weak link in the pre-admission chain–that is, there is some benefit because kids get to see what college life might really be like, but there is relatively little control over who host is or what the host does. I have to admit that neither of my children did pre-admit overnights, and their colleges were and are not among those with the most artistic/creative reputations, but I am still shocked by this story.</p>

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<p>I am shocked that anyone is shocked by this story, and I think those of you professing shock would do well to go back and read it carefully:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The OP’s daughter had a good time, despite some confusion finding the activity she wanted to attend. Someone asked her if she wanted to smoke pot and she said “no”. People were friendly, she liked them, there was lots to do. So far, nothing shocking. </p></li>
<li><p>The OP reported that someone else told her that at the same college the friend’s daughter went to a fire-dancing club meeting. While that may sound outre if you have never heard about it, any kind of perusal of this thread would let you know that this is a fairly common activity on college campuses. So, still nothing shocking.</p></li>
<li><p>There is nothing in the OP’s post to indicate that there were unsafe conditions, lack of care, or anything like that at the fire-dancing thing. So I’m not going to get outraged about that yet. The friend may have thought so, but the friend may not have known. The OP may have thought so without asking the friend or her child. There’s no information whatsoever, so no shock value unless you are making it up yourself. But note that all of the fire-dancing participants who have posted here have reported that they took safety precautions when they did it.</p></li>
<li><p>The OP’s friend told the OP that the friend’s child told the friend that someone at the show burned a mask off her face and a bra off her body. That’s shocking. It may even be true. If it’s true, it sounds like a magic trick by a skilled performer, and I’m impressed. I suspect, however, that maybe it’s a little less true than that. In any event, no one seems to have been injured, and still no indication of poor supervision or lack of care.</p></li>
<li><p>The friend told the OP that the friend’s child “ate fire”. The OP was upset, no indication whether the friend was upset, clearly nothing bad happened to the daughter. This is, to me, the only even vaguely bad part of the whole story. But (a) I don’t know what was really involved, (b) although it sounds dangerous, it may not have been at all, and (c) I still have no indication that there was any problem with supervision or care. Everything, in fact, points to these kids really knowing what they were doing.</p></li>
<li><p>The OP’s friend told the OP that the friend’s child told the friend that other people were talking about crashing the clothing-optional movie, and what people were wearing there. Folks, the chain of hearsay is so attenuated by this point that you can’t take anything at face value. But . . . let’s assume there was a nude, or nearly nude, movie showing, and that more than five people (none of whom has anything to do with this thread) attended it. Shock value? I say zero. Cripes, this is college. I also strongly suspect that the reality of whatever it was was far less sensational than suggested by the imaginations of either (a) the students who didn’t attend but “thought about crashing”, (b) their high-school guests, or (c) the parents of their high-school guests.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Shocking things do happen in the world. There’s no evidence of that here.</p>

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<p>I would be concerned about a school that had those as events listed by the school for the prospie’s to participate in. Even though your daughter handeld herself very well, I would encourage her to keep looking around for schools with an environment she feels is closer to her own personal beliefs and preferences. My S1 is a freshmen in college and his school has never sponsored these sorts of activities, not that silly, stupid, dangerous activities never occur, they are not sanctioned by the school. Would you share what school this was? Good luck to you and your D in the college search!</p>

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<p>Yes, in the great scheme of things almost nothing that happens at college is shocking short of the too-frequent tragedies of people drinking or drugging themselves to death, dying in overnight fires, or being shot by crazed gunmen. So in using the word “shocked” I perhaps overstated my reaction. But, having one child several yeras out of collegeand one several years into college life, I would, less dramatically, say that I found the atmosphere and experiences the OP described to be distasteful, uncomfortable, unpleasant, offputting…and so on. I would also say that what college studetns do is often best left unknown by their parents, but when you are hosting a prospective student or associating with one, you are going by different rules–I am not talking about legal drinking age or age of consent, just about common courtesy, discretion, and common sense–it is not really the time to show off versions of extreme or not-allowed-at-home behavior.</p>

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<p>Mythmom…can I just say in all seriousness about your son…“what a nice boy!” Civic minded, bright, artistic and a non-drinker too! :slight_smile: Nice work.</p>

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<p>Mattmom:</p>

<p>I’m serious. What specifically made “the atmosphere and experiences the OP described . . . distasteful, uncomfortable, unpleasant, offputting…”? There was almost no description of atmosphere in the OP’s post, and the experiences described were pretty unexceptional. Everything else was fourth-degree hearsay . . . and not that bad, either.</p>

<p>I would be prepared to be shocked or upset by shocking, upsetting things. I am not prepared to be shocked or upset by kids gossiping about other kids, especially other kids they don’t appear to know, and especially when the most upsetting thing they’re saying is that the other kid wore a g-string in public.</p>

<p>Where’s the upsetting beef?</p>

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<p>The OP has been gracious and thanked us for our comments. So I feel like I’m still on your doormat, OP, continuing an interesting discussion. Sometimes when you post threads that generate excitement, you feel badly once you’ve gotten your input and been helped. With your permission to continue…</p>

<p>A good move for a worried Mom, deciding whether to allow an application to continue, might be: have the student phone up the adult administrator called “Director of Student Activities” to find out how these things are monitored. Say that she’s a prospective student and wondering what is the process. Make it clear she;s not against the activity, and that you understand students can choose to go or not go, but how are these activities supervised from afar to ensure everyone’s safety?</p>

<p>If D doesn’t want to make such a phone call, I wouldn’t force her to. If you’re arguing over whether or not to let the application continue, this might
give some refreshing INFORMATION to calm a mom’s nerves. I weighed wheterh I’d make that call myself, and for me I’d say “no” but others might differ.</p>

<p>Other than safety, I don’t think the college SHOULD play a role in whether the magic trick involved a hat or a bra over some flameproof leotard. This is theater, and the presence of a flameproof leotard underneath the “burned bra”, plus a fireproof mask under the ski-mask that was burned off (REPORTEDLY…) is the likeliest answer. </p>

<p>Kids do NOT want to hurt themselves in public. If they do, it’s unfortunately a private matter. In theater, the desire is to attract and excite a crowd, but live to the next day to enjoy the compliments.</p>

<p>Here’s my newest thought: suppose the D had gone to a student club called “Trampolines.” Nobody would be unhappy or excited on a thread-- except me. I’ve jumped trampoline and I understand that it’s only safe if there are 6 “spotters”–students standing around the perimeter of the trampoline, facing inward, ready to push the jumping kid back into the center if s/he jumps off-balance. (At least that’s how I recall my 8 a.m. trampoline class in college !)</p>

<p>If a college sanctioned a trampoline club as an EC, I’d want to know if there’s a club president, in consultation with a Student Activities director. I’d want to know that there’s a rule such as “Unless there’s a quorum of spotters present, nobody can jump.” I’d also be open to listen if any of that has changed in the 30 years since I’ve actually done this activity (couldn’t touch it today!!).</p>

<p>What’s scaring all, I believe is that there’s fire involved. Understandable.
Do you think for a minute that a litigious=conscious LAC (they’re smart people running these ships, y’know) would allow a club with fire to operate for one minute without some kind of process or oversight?</p>

<p>And they were sufficiently proud of their supervision (even if it’s invisible to prospective students) that they listed it on their group of activities FOR PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS, no less. </p>

<p>I think that LAC might really have its act together. </p>

<p>If it’s a college sanctioned club for fire dancing…imagine a club president who must report and justify to some college administrator about how they set up events, which materials are used, safety precautions taken. </p>

<p>So I say: "Good for that LAC – not that there IS this club…students generate topics for “clubs” based on what they’re interested in exploring. But good for an LAC to put themselves into the loop, find a way to run it safely, rather than forbid it and send the interest underground. I’d rather see it on a big college green, with adults having gone over the terms, than outside an offcampus apartment on a front lawn. Maybe the college is exceptionally responsible and tuned in? As JHS points out, given the hearsay line, there could have been a security officer standing at the event but that wouldn’t have been picked up at all by the visiting prospie’s friend’s mother who is a friend of this OP…</p>

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<p>JHS- purposely tried to leave emotion out of my initial post because I wanted a reaction to the events themselves, not a reaction to my reaction. Of course these events are upsetting to myself and the other parent. These are NOT unexceptional experiences in the world our daughters have been raised in. My belief is that would be considered to be socially unacceptable and outside the norm by most people in “my” category–that being loving parents, as well as hard working, educated, well traveled and somewhat sophisticated people. My daughter attends an arts magnet school which is also well known for academics. This school attracts many different types of kids, hence has a sort of “anything goes” culture, and that’s why she (and we) love it. None of us are exactly naive. My question is one of the greater picture–as reflected in the earlier comment in this thread by danas: “I agree with those who think that if your daughter has a strong internal compass, she will likely negotiate such a school well. But I’d like to say that 4 years in a particular environment can skew one’s concept of what is “normal” or acceptable. I know that my four years are impacting my behavior even today, in good ways and in bad.” That’s the beef.</p>

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<p>Thanks, p3t, for saying what I was thinking in a more measured and generous, and less provocative, way.</p>

<p>Here is my inventory:</p>

<p>Someone asked the OP’s daughter if she wanted to smoke pot. She said no. No one smoked any pot. Not shocking, not upsetting, not uncommon.</p>

<p>The college has a fire-dancing club, and told prospective students about a performance that night. I know that COULD be perfectly appropriate, and all indications are that it was.</p>

<p>Prospies saw a student do a cool, sophisticated stunt.</p>

<p>One prospie reportedly was taught how to do an age-old carnival trick. This sounds dangerous, but so do half the rides at Disney World or Six Flags. There’s no indication this happened under unsafe conditions. Certainly, there was no bad outcome.</p>

<p>The college also had, and told prospies about, a “clothing optional movie”. They heard that the people there were all wearing at least some clothing. This might be mildly shocking if there hadn’t been 50 “naked party” threads on CC in the past two years. The hype-to-reality ratio on this is off the charts. In any event, by now it’s a cliche, not a shocker. It’s also not shocking that no one anyone knows actually went.</p>

<p>The prospies all seem to have had a great time, doing very different things. They enjoyed the people they met. They thought the college was cool, and a little daring. No one made them do anything they regretted the next day, or that they didn’t feel comfortable talking to their mothers about.</p>

<p>EDIT ADDITION: Cocomom, if you were trying to leave emotion out of your initial post, you failed. What I am saying is that your initial post was 90% emotion and 10% (maybe) fact.</p>

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<p>Well that’s exactly why you want to visit. It’s like Islamic fundamentaliists moving to Amsterdam and expecting the culture to change to suit their sensibilities. It doesn’t work out well. Of course that’s an extreme example. I know you’re just a concerned and loving parent, OP, but if that’s the culture on that campus, it’s probably better to know that ahead of time because it isn’t likely to change.</p>

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<p>I have a question about the nudity. I have an impression that being nude as an incidental factor, as in we live in a clothing optional house and bake bread together in the nude, as being comfortable and okay. I have a different take on nude events, which carry a sexualized factor. It strikes me as more for show, less natural, less free, with a potential for those with umm, less culturally normative physiques to be well, disenfranchised.</p>

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<p>haha, I had to read that twice, before I realized that you were not referring to your own family.</p>