College Visit-Uncomfortable w/ Activities

Parents Forum
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<p>If she already goes to an arts magnet school and comes from a family of sophisticated people, she’s already negotiated the territory that the purpose of art is to stimulate thinking in others. </p>

<p>She’ll discover more in a place with a range of choices for her to make than a controlled environment, IMHO. </p>

<p>Give others some credit, here. There’s a college that supervises and puts a listed activity. There are kids who can perform, or not; attend, or not.
I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised how attentive kids are to each others’ safety and feelings; much more so than in my day at college. Everyone on that campus would talk and be aware of the existence of events they wouldn’t attend. That’s called critical thinking. If they attended, what bad thing happened? What did they see, really? A stage show, a magic trick at the firedancing, or the equivalent of a summer beach scene but in a dorm room. This wasn’t a donkey show, or porn. It wasn’t. </p>

<p>Now that I know she’s been through an arts magnet school, I say she’s probably better equipped than anyone to make sound judgments about what’s right “for her” at college. </p>

<p>I’d be concerned if she went to a college or uni where students felt uninterested in the evening’s events, and preferred to hang in their dorms with nothing better to do than rent porn from Blockbusters. </p>

<p>The first thing my D did, upon graduating from a top-shelf LAC, was travel with her friends for a month in a circus tour. ONe of the students organized it, got a grant for it, the whole nine yards. Impressive. Another student retrofitted a schoolbus so it heated a hot tub using the engine from the bus.</p>

<p>They travelled to 7 cities, performing for adults and children. They didn’t do fire, but the emphasis was on storytelling drama using circus skills to move the story along (stilts, juggling, and so on). </p>

<p>How could she or I have ever known about this had she not been able to venture out a bit from what I understood as “Art.” (Noteworthy: I majored in Art and Art History, she double-majored in Religion and Art. Art isn’t just hanging pretties on the wall; theater isn’t just “Wicked” on Broadway.)</p>

<p>After this circus tour. my D came home for a month, then had the confidence to move to a new city herself with her shiny new B.A. She chose the city, got a first job, improved on the job, and simply kept me informed about all of this.</p>

<p>That’s a LOT of growth in four years, and I credit the college for giving her some kind of safe-but-exciting space in which to explore and discover. Also, her academic papers in Religion, Philosophy, and more would knock your socks off. </p>

<p>She is also personally conservative in many ways. </p>

<p>We’ve got to start trusting our daughters more, when they’ve shown us every evidence of good sense and making good choices under pressure. We might not even LIKE the choices they face, but watch for their inner wisdom, and support THAT.</p>

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<p>JHS wrote,
“Cocomom, if you were trying to leave emotion out of your initial post, you failed. What I am saying is that your initial post was 90% emotion and 10% (maybe) fact.”</p>

<p>I reread the initial post and I completely disagree with you, JHS. Not until the end did the OP share her feelings.</p>

<p>We all tend to overreact when it comes to our kids because we worry about them. I think the OP just wants to hear other opinions to see if she has cause for concern or if she is overreacting to what she heard.</p>

<p>However, I agree that things we sometimes seem to take for granted, like over-consumption of alcohol, should raise more flags than what the OP’s daughter’s friend experienced. College is a time for experimentation and we, as parents, need to take a deep breath, let our kids go and hope for the best (easier said than done).</p>

<p>The OP’s daughter handled herself beautifully and that’s the main thing. She should be fine wherever she goes.</p>

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<p>I have never gone to a nudist camp or a clothing optional party, but my understanding is that they can be very comfortable, natural experiences and are not necessarily sexualized. In Japan, bath houses and public toilets are often mixed gender. The American culture is actually quite prudish about these things.</p>

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<p>We are not talking about a college student here but about a high school student visiting a strange place, and I don’t care how sophisticated the background, there are some things that I don’t think are a stranger’s prerogative when dealing with a 17 year old visitor. The OP stated several specific areas that did not seem appropriate. In my personal reaction to that post and some of the subsequent comments, here are the specific areas that I found disturbing:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Offering pot, whether seriously or teasingly, to a high school kid you don’t know; if it was a serious offer it was out of line and if it was a joke it was, to my mind, an awkward “we’re so cool and maybe you can be cool too” moment. And I don’t think offering alcohol would be any more appropriate in this context. (I suspect it might be even more frowned on in some circles. I do wonder if some posters would react differently if the issue were taken a step further to focus on a couple of beers and the specter of date rape drugs or overbearing fat boys:)) </p></li>
<li><p>Suggesting that a high school student attend a clothing optional gathering when you have no idea of what his or her level of sexual activity, sex education, and contraception awareness might be. Yes, it is perfectly possible for a group of people to sit around with little if any clothing on and have a totaly nonsexual conversation or activity. I am familiar, for example, with an excellent summer camp where on visiting day, as during the rest of the summer, some people enjoy the lake and the waterfront nude. But whether a clothing optional movie watching gathering is going to end in a purely nonsexual discussion of the event is not clear to me. Add a little alcohol, introduce a sexually aggressive boy (or girl) to the mix, and who knows. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>In summary, a high school student visiting a school with a randomly assigned overnght host (thus no personally known support system) does not seem a good context for the activites the OP described. It just doesn’t sound right to me, child of the 60s and blue stater though I may be.</p>

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<p>There’s a guide book called “Choosing the Right College” that was not to my taste, but would be very useful for parents and students who want to avoid schools with these types of activities.</p>

<p>A high school senior who hasn’t had sex education should probably be looking for a more protected environment–or staying home entirely.</p>

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<p>mattmom:</p>

<p>Of course, I agree with you that it wasn’t appropriate to offer pot to a visiting high school student, for real or as a test. However, that particular inappropriate thing probably happens, both ways, at 99% of all residential four-year colleges. If you are looking for somewhere it couldn’t happen, that is a very short list, and you are wasting your time on CC. It probably happens at her arts magnet high school, too. And it seems to have been handled well once it happened, i.e., when she said “no”, no one smoked any pot, and no one tried to challenge her on it or pressure her further.</p>

<p>As for the nude movie, I agree with Mom of Four’s analysis. It’s not something I would consider a great idea. But no one really suggested that the high school students go – it was just on a list of events. Certainly they were not under any pressure to go, and their hosts didn’t tell them it was normative. What would have been shocking to me would have been if any of the high school students actually went. </p>

<p>In any event, we know nothing, nada, about what the event was like. The prospies didn’t go, the hosts didn’t go, maybe nobody in the world except the organizers went. And for all we know, it was chaperoned one way or another to ensure that no one felt more uncomfortable than necessary.</p>

<p>And, yes, being nude plus alchohol plus sexually aggressive people could be explosive. But my experience of nude activities as a college student – a few times – was that in that context people are actually super-careful to keep things under control: less drinking, less tolerance of borderline behavior. Not “purely nonsexual”, exactly, but a lot less like an orgy than your average large party. So, if it actually happened, and if anyone actually showed up, my experience suggests that it was probably pretty tame. And, if it wasn’t pretty tame, most of the people there would have left quickly. </p>

<p>You are right – a high school student without a personal support system (except her simultaneously visiting friend) should not necessarily be going to a clothing-optional movie. And guess what? None of them did. I agree with you, and so did they. </p>

<p>The only thing we disagree on is whether it was bad for the college to let them know the event was happening, or to fail to take steps to ensure they couldn’t attend.</p>

<p>Here’s the very worst thing I learned about this college from the whole story: The OP’s daughter couldn’t find the location of the Spanish-language movie she really wanted to see, and apparently no one helped her. That’s really inappropriate.</p>

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<p>Mattmom:

and

</p>

<p>OP:

</p>

<p>Paying 3: The student visited to better understand how she’d feel on a typical campus evening. The college delivered. They didn’t hand out a list of suggestions for prospective students; they downloaded a menu of choices, meant for the college students themselves. She appropriately wended her way throughout a complicated evening, and fared well. She confided in her mother, perhaps as a safe place to check that she did okay with her decisions. Mom recognizes her D made good choices, but Mom and Dad find themselves concerned, even a bit steamed, at what goes on at this college, realizing they won’t be there each evening to help her process her decisions and reinforce the positive.</p>

<p>It is VERY hard to see into the future and imagine your D being able to figure all of this out without you. Most on this post feel she will, and so in a way has earned the right to go where she might feel an exceptionally “good fit.” It’s her first choice, fourth visit…must be special. </p>

<p>Mattmom:

</p>

<p>Paying 3: The college didn’t offer her pot. Some lame-o undergrad boy did so in a room, which she randomly walked into because an unappointed hallmate
went that way… Obviously there is pot on that campus. There is underage liquor on campus. We must deal with this, but the way to is not to keep kids from attending where they wish, but teach them to make responsible choices
constantly.</p>

<p>My instinct tells me, if she behaved this way as a l7 year old, she’s very sophisticated and mature. She’s also open-hearted because she communicated with her parents. I’d be very surprised if the others on the campus “ruin” her. </p>

<p>In the end, it’s the student, not us, who has to wake up each day on a campus, go to classes, pick out the food, decide how to spend the evening,
choose a mate or not, and so much more. </p>

<p>If she loves the professors, classes, and campus, and made great choices as a mere l7 year old, I strongly feel she has "earned’ the right to be trusted to go there, fi she gets accepted. Even if it’s not worry-free for the parents.</p>

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<p>Just for fun, I asked my son what his prospie did last night. He went to an orchestra rehearsal and hung around the dorm listening to people talk. Woo hoo!</p>

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<p>Bethie, you got me remembering: when I went to my LAC as a prospective student, my older brother (a senior there) told all of his friends to stay away from me since I was underage and he knew them all too well. So they all found me at some barbeque for prospective students, ran in a circle around me and waved, saying “HI” calling me by name, ran away…all just to steam him. </p>

<p>My brother fixed me up that evening with a date with a gay guy, so he knew I’d be safe. We went to a concert. It was very safe. I think they played Brahms.</p>

<p>Among the guys who ran to wave there was one I re-met ten years later. We married and just celebrated a 25th anniversary. </p>

<p>Life is sometime so OUT OF CONTROL it’s staggering.</p>

<p>Postscript" What if my parents hadn’t let me go to a campus with uncloseted gays? But they did. I think if we don’t loose the ties on social judgment, we’ll end up homeschooling kids throughout college and grad school! Fortunately the world, and our kids, won’t let us.</p>

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<p>Bethie, and P3 cute stories! To further lighten this up a little…one of my dorm-mates was a tour guide and was leading a dorm tour which included the sun roof. Boy were some of those parents shocked and my friend was totally embarrassed when they opened the door and visually recognized that it was a naked day on this co-ed dorm roof.</p>

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<p>historymom: Thanks for the kind words. He’s incredible. But I don’t think I had that much to do with it.</p>

<p>I mentioned this thread to my D. First, I think she was a bit put out that I new about something cool, fire dancing, and she didn’t. </p>

<p>More significantly, her point was that the LAC is trying to attract students that will be comfortable there and trying to encourage them to come. Things that are a little tabu are part of what college is about. It’s not the same thing as living at home and commuting. The college is trying to appeal to the students, not the parents.</p>

<p>But more importantly, by allowing a sampling of campus culture those who feel this is uncomfortable won’t come and won’t be those frosh who want to transfer first semester.</p>

<p>If the student wants to attend and parents don’t approve, well, that’s a complicated family issue.</p>

<p>How about I pose the question this way: What if one of my kids, my S say, had an overnight at a school and attended a frat party and tagged along to an ROTC meeting. Not my value system at all. I would have difficulty understanding why my son enjoyed that, but I would still let him attend. I might secretly worry that he might be “ruined”, but I guess that means just not sharing my values. I hope I would be okay with that.</p>

<p>To me, this sounds like a very wonderful evening for both girls. At many schools getting drunk would be all they saw, and many prospies get drunk themselves on these weekends.</p>

<p>paying3: You have the cutest family. I see you trouping off to the circus, walking on stilts and jumping on trampolines. “Hey paying3” (as she lamely tries to simulate boys trying to catch paying3’s attention.)</p>

<p>bethie: To a kid who wants to play in the orchestra attending orchestra rehearsal is probably a very important way to spend the evening. No sure it would be deal breaker for S, but would be something he’d want to see. Now, what do they wear to orchestra rehearsals?</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Based on the original story, the daughter loved the school and didn’t have a problem, and all the angst is coming from the mother. I’m with JHS; I don’t see the big problem here.</p>

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<p>Historymom: Re: Mythmom’s son - I’ve already got digs on him for my daughter (which I alluded to on another thread.)</p>

<p>Sigh. I can dream.</p>

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<p>It’s OK…my girls have strictly forbidden me to even think about fantasizing about dreaming about the maternal fix-up. They attend the hs where I teach and whenever I have said “Joe seems like such a nice boy.” I am met with eye-rolling and “Mom you don’t even know…he’s only that way for adults.” :-)</p>

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<p>And I would be immediately killed. There are boys just across the street at Columbia for D, but could you imagine the outrage? (Yes, I mean garland’s S among others.)</p>

<p>But D is going to England for a semester, so anyone know any great guys in England? (Just kidding.)</p>

<p>S is so laid back I thought he’d be thirty before he dated, but as I’ve said before, this incredibly beautiful, interesting girl came for him and slipped a poem she wrote for him (in French) in his locker. He, a Latinist who did not know French, got a dictionary, translated the poem and asked the girl out before I knew anything about it. After he told me the first part I asked if he were interested and looking to ask her out and he said, “Mission accomplished.” They were fourteen (her) and fifteen (him) and they dated a year. So that showed how much I knew.</p>

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<p>Like I said, I can dream …</p>

<p>(not even a chance that I can mention it to my daughter though …)</p>

<p>Back to the original programming.</p>

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<p>HM, I think there must be a class we don’t know about that teaches that adolescent eye-roll thing. My D is now 21 and I’m finally not getting nearly as many as I did when she was in the 14-18 zone.</p>

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<p>I’m thinking the OP is hopeful that out there somewhere is a nice, academic focused college, with creative kids who don’t do dumb or bad stuff. Good luck with that.</p>

<p>I suspect that if we knew half the stuff that goes on on all these campuses we’d pull our hair out.</p>

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<p>Love this–you’ve hit the nail on the head! Guess I am dreaming.</p>

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<p>Perhaps you need to keep an ancient proverb as a talisman: what you don’t know won’t get you upset. And maybe recalibrate on what’s worth getting upset about and what’s not.</p>

<p>Weenie, you forgot the third category: stuff that isn’t necessarily dumb or bad but is outrageously provocative.</p>