<p>As a Christian, I would never, never say that to someone that I knew was Jewish - I think it is extremely rude. I would only say that to fellow Christians.
I asked my high schoolers about what they thought about this…and they said they would never say this to a stranger or write this anywhere, but, boys have a different humor, and with their very good friends they often call each really crude, rude things and sometimes derogatory names - all out of fun. So with their friends - I could see them saying this jokingly. I know my S1’s friends (Jewish friends) have called him Kimchi head (saw it on facebook). Kids call each other all kinds of things in jest. (Friends that is…)</p>
<p>Well, we are off to a Christmas party, I just wanted to give you a perspective from a Christian. There are all types of Christians - conservative to liberal, just as in Judaism.
I, for one, would never try to prostelize (sp?)</p>
<p>there is no way my daughter would know what to respond if someone told her that the Jews killed Jesus; and she is not the confrontational type…</p>
<p>she finally responded to my question: If it was someone she knew, she would tell them that given she is Jewish, it was rude and inconsiderate…if it was anonymous, she would wipe it off; if it happened again, she would tell (in her case) the head of Hillel and ask her how she thought she should approach the situation…</p>
<p>in fact, her initial response was that in any case, she would talk to the head of Hillel at her ED school (Elon), Nancy Luberoff…for help</p>
<p>Oh my goodness. Miss a day and there’s so much catching up. Congrats to all the UMich acceptances and Ithaca, SUNY, UMass, Northeastern, Wisconsin, C of C, Green Mountain, UIC and Penn State (I hope I’ve not left anyone out; from now on I will keep a note pad out to make notes while reading). We are on a roll now, baby. @chochipcookie: are our boys out together? because he’s definitely been MIA lately. @mdmomfromli: yasher koach. It never gets old watching our kids up on the bimah.</p>
<p>I’ve been reading this conversation about the whiteboard with mixed feelings. On the one hand, I see the concern if this was an isolated incident (which I’m inclined to think it is), but as a general remark, I just feel like it should be ignored. A comment like the one about Jews killing their Lord and Savior definitely needs a swift rebuttal, but most people don’t realize the actual differences between Jews and Gentiles and aren’t aware that they’ve even crossed a line. For example, friends of mine once wished me a Merry Christmas (to which I always say thank you) at which time I explained that I don’t observe that holiday. This came as a big surprise to them because their understanding was that Jews celebrated their holidays in addition to the Christian holidays. There was no malice, just misinformation.
Let the record reflect that I’ve been misunderstood within my own (all Jewish) extended family, who after 25 years finally don’t offer me shellfish or ask why I don’t want sausage on my egg and cheese bagel.
I do think that this incident sounds like it was directed specifically at the Jewish student, which requires close monitoring to make sure that there is not a systematic targeting of her. If it recurred, I’d be the first to report it.</p>
<p>Just sent a link to the resource in 4280 to my 17yo son. Hope he reads it because I think it is very worthwhile.</p>
<p>My boys have too frequently parroted their friends’ comments reflecting the stereotype that jews are cheap/greedy and it bothers me to no end. And they know it. I am very hopeful that one of my S1’s friends does not go to U-Mich because I believe he is anti-semetic and would hate for my S to want to dorm w/ him. It will really interfere w/ my desire to have him check out and hopefully spend some time at the Hillel there. My S2 has more jewish friends, and they repeat these jokes among themselves as if it’s ok because they are jewish. He knows I don’t agree w/ that. I was in my 20s before I heard a comment like one someone I was friendly w/ made about a mistake on a check in a restaurant as the waiter “really trying to jew you”…I was stunned. She wasn’t trying to be offensive, just said it matter of factly because that was just a phrase she grew up hearing. I’m hopeful that after she saw my reaction, more thought would be taken before making such a comment, regardless of who she was w/.</p>
<p>umich-interesting remark about trying to “jew you down”, that is just one example of something my sister in law said to me years ago. She had no idea how offensive it was until I explained it to her. What we might take for granted is obviously offensive, may not be to others until we educate them.</p>
<p>Levirm: I really like your suggestions for potential responses and your explanation of basic differences between Christianity and Judiasm.</p>
<p>Rodney: (replying to post 4266) Here a very common Christian childrens song is Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world, whether yellow, black or white . The implication is Jesus loves everyone.</p>
<p>Interesting the comments about “jewing you down”. The first time I heard that I had just recently moved down south and I was in fact bargaining with a sales rep that was supplying us with medical equipment. At that time I just came back at him and said yes I am “jewing you down” and I have years of heritage behind me so perhaps you should work with me, he in fact did. After I had my kids the term took on a whole different level of offense and on two separate occasions when I heard people use the expression I explained how it was a problem to me and that I didn’t want my kids to have to grow up around kids who grew up hearing that sort of thing. It is funny how being a parent changes ones perspective and can empower one to say things they wouldn’t dare say just for themselves. </p>
<p>On the white board message: I separate the message from the messenger. As Rodney indicated it is really hard to know why the student wrote that on the board. It could be as simple as one kid trying to razz another one , it could be antisemetic, it could be ignorance. I would be offended and think that immediate action was needed if the message on the board was “you are going to hell”, or “Jesus killer”. The Jesus loves you message is inappropriate but as I wouldn’t be offended hearing that any other departed soul loves me, hearing that Jesus loves me is a positive statement. There are enough really offensive things that can happen like the incident at the U of Florida that RVM posted about. When you are a minority you are always teaching but to stay sane it is important not to sweat everything. If the student knows who wrote it on the board they can certainly ask what’s up with this? An honest conversation could follow. If not and if leaving it alone puts the incident to bed so be it. If the message reappears then further action is needed.</p>
<p>I apologize for not staying quiet, but as a non-Jewish person, I really feel the need to re-iterate that a message that says, “Jesus loves you”, would in my eyes be about love and how we are all God’s children, just as Spectrum is saying. Jesus, in all Christian religions, is the epitome of love. As someone else said, Jesus himself was a Jew, so to people like me, that know very few Jewish people IRL, it’s really ignorance and not meant to be an insult. The only Jewish people I know in real life also have non-Jewish spouses and celebrate Jewish and Christian holidays. Jesus loves you directed at a Jewish person - Inappropriate? yes, but not hateful. How in the world could saying that anyone from the bible LOVES you be hateful?</p>
<p>UMICH - Congrats! Your obviously instate but for us lonely OOS B+/A- little low SAT scores - such a reach! Little jealous. Michigan/Rutgers, there is no comparison in my book :(</p>
<p>I am planning on really streamlining our 20+ list over the break so we can focus and plan visits. I am trying to make sure that all schools (even reaches) our really in the world of acceptances. I do not want to be going down the road of disappointment if I can help it.</p>
<p>Our high school has three tracks - R, A, H/AP - hence if you have all A’s on the H/AP track you could end up with a 7.0 GPA. So how do you calculate GPA, is it school specific? AP classes usually earn a point when recalculating, but what about the middle “A” level track? Are gym and electives always considered? his online courses (which is billed at the honors level)?</p>
<p>If I could get a better handle on this recalculation and maybe with some luck, an additional 100 points in the SAT’s, we can look at some of these bigger schools again - Michigan, Maryland, Tulane for example.</p>
<p>Kathiep - you aren’t Jewish. You don’t understand how a group of Jews don’t find the message “Jesus loves you” offensive and you are here telling us to embrace the message? You may not understand it, but it is offensive to some of us.</p>
<p>While you say that “Jesus, in all Christian religions, is the epitome of love”, you are correct, but WE ARE NOT CHRISTIAN!!! Therefore, a message within the Christian faith is not the same as when directed towards someone outside of the faith. That is where you are having a hard time understanding us. As a non-jew, you don’t get it…and that’s ok, but please stop telling us, that we should “get the message of love.” </p>
<p>I understand that some people speak out of ignorance and others speak out of hate. I hope the person who wrote this on the whiteboard was speaking out of ignorance, but no one knows. Anyone has the right to be offended by the message. But when a person writes a message like that, that is anonymous and only directed at a Jew, it is easy to make the assumption that it has crossed the line from ignorance.</p>
<p>I really hope that we can put this whole thing to bed. I hope the non-jews that have read this will be more understanding and sensitive to things that might be perceived as hurtful, even if not meant that way. It also brings to mind of how careful we should be when we joke among ourselves about our heritage. When someone overhears it, it makes it ok to for them to say those things. Stayathomemom brought up a good point. She has seen her sons friends (who are Jewish) refer to her son as a Kimchi head (I honestly have no idea what this is, but the way you wrote it, I assume, not so nice?). It reminds me of an instance with my younger daughter. One of her best friends is black. A few years ago she was relating a conversation that they had in which they were teasing eachother and each used a few terms that didn’t make me happy. I sat her down and said not acceptable. She didn’t understand because among her Jewish friends they use the terms among themselves, so why was it wrong for her black friend to use those words and the same things that she said, the other black girls said about themselves, so why was it wrong for her to say them? I explained about teasing within your own faith/ethnicity is very different, even if not right. </p>
<p>A few years ago Oprah did a show just on that. She had a bunch of black celebrities on who use derogatory terms among themselves and they said it’s ok for them to use the terms, but not for others. Oprah didn’t agree with that…and neither do I!</p>
<p>OK…back to our regularly scheduled programing!</p>
<p>cherryhillmom - we are also going to streamline our 20+ schools over winter break. Told D she has to go through each schools website and decide on the ones she wants to visit over spring break. We have already visited 4 schools. 2 reaches, 1 match and 1 safety. She knocked the match off of the list. </p>
<p>She also took a school off of the list because of the name. Yup, you read that right. She couldn’t picture herself telling people that’s where she went. OK, whatever, the list has plenty to chose from, not worth a fight!</p>
<p>She will apply to two MD (College Park and Towson) schools even though she doesn’t want to and has said those don’t count towards her total of schools, since she doesn’t want to go to them. I explained…financial safety! </p>
<p>Then we will plot out our spring break visits.</p>
<p>Lots of students do this. I was careful to warn my DH because he was making fun of some college names. I did not want schools to be struck from our list because DH made a joke about a college’s name. My DH even took one school off the list without exploring the school at all because of the name of the school!!! I did not argue because there are too many schools to choose from, but it is really silly to me.</p>
<p>Stayathomemom’s son is half Korean, I believe she said. Kimchi is a delicious Korean dish made of spicy pickled cabbage. (It can be made in a kosher manner, eliminating the seafood that some kimchi contains.) This reminds me of being called a “bagel” by my Asian friends when I was in a high school with very few Jews!</p>
<p>cherryhillmomto2…none of S1’s colleges are likely to be on the list for S2. Hopefully there’s enough of a gap between the ages of the two that it won’t be quite as noticeable to S2 (except, of course, for the fact that his brother will be attending Michigan).</p>
<p>Northeastmom…I tried to convince my son that he shouldn’t disregard a school just because it has a name like Wooster… Didn’t work</p>
<p>Kimchi is a stinky, korean cabbage dish - I did’t mean to imply that my son took this at an insult from his very, good friends. My point was that teenage boys often say crude things to each other out of humor and fun - but they are all great friends so no one takes it seriously or personally - they think it’s funny. (and the foul language they use with each other - just very common!)</p>
<p>I am no expert on GPA, but I’ve developed my own theory after going through this process twice (well, I’m not done with the second yet).</p>
<p>Since both HSs and colleges weight and define GPA in a million ways, I’d go right down the middle of the road. Take all of your kid’s classes - regardless of level. Assign an A a 4, a B a 3, etc. Leave off pluses and minuses. Make an average. That is your starting point, something to compare to data you see where colleges list what kinds of GPAs their accepted students have.</p>
<p>If you know your kid has a lot of honors/APs, then you can figure that it will help at a school where the GPA seems low, but since we have no idea how classes are - or if they are - weighted, there’s no way to predict that. Just go with your gut.</p>
<p>I think this levels the playing field and can give you an idea if you are in the ballpark. All of the distinctions about how rigorous a HS is and how the colleges interpret the profile, etc., etc. will just make you crazy. It’s OK to have a few reaches, i.e. the schools where you just aren’t sure the GPA fits (but maybe other attributes do). Only you and your kid know whether something feels like a reasonable gamble.</p>
<p>Cherryhill and Mdmom: You guys are right on target to narrow down your lists and plan visits now. I feel we handled the process prety well with my daughter and was thinking about how we mangaged it. Luckily, she was very invested in the process. She did a lot of research and helped choose schools to visit. We started with schools within an hour or two from home to see what type of schools she liked. Her instincts didn’t change too much as we moved through the process. She really liked medium to large urban schools, with bustling campuses. I took her to see pretty, serene campuses to make sure she knew what she was giving up, but she stuck with her city schools.</p>
<p>My biggest piece of advice is to try to get the testing done junior year. I know RVM is on top of this. My daughter took her first SATs in March and did okay. We spent spring break visiting schools based on those scores, but her April and June ACTs were much better, and changed her options. She was able to come up with a firm list of schools over the summer without worrying about whether she could pull up her scores in the fall. That allowed her to ask for recommendations and begin applications in September and apply to schools early.</p>
<p>I’m looking forward to following the rest of you through the process. It seems like our CC families do a pretty good job because we pool our information.</p>