<p>Also Judaism is a very communal religion. If you are looking for a Jewish environment for (at least partially) religious reasons, you pretty much need at least a consistent minyan.</p>
<p>My daughter wants to be around other Jews for many reasons. Therefore a school with Jews would be a good “fit” for her. If your child doesn’t care, then this is really not an issue for you and you will have many more choices than we did.</p>
<p>I think we share comon goals for our kids, with our kids’ personal Jewish identities being of concern to all of us, but varying among the kids. And sometimes kids who think that Jewish identity is not important learn to th econtrary when relatively isolated.</p>
<p>A school with a substantial population of Jewish kids like the parents on this thread–varying in their degrees of observance, but all with such good personal values–would have been ideal (and perhaps Muhlenberg is such a school).</p>
<p>Like I said earlier, I have no idea what makes a child “click” with a school. D refused to look at Muhlenberg too even though on paper, I really liked it. D was not looking for particular observance levels and there are plenty of non-Jewish kids with good values.</p>
<p>I find it hard to put into words what I mean about what she was looking for, but it seems like with Jews, there is a common language, an understanding, a shared perspective. There is less to have to explain. In a school with a substantial Jewish population, there is less explanation necessary even for the non-Jews.</p>
<p>I may be rambling…</p>
<p>QM - not rambling - that is exactly what I mean. We rarely attend services - but being Jewish is pervasive throughout our lives - culturally, socially, the food we like, the humor - it is an integral part of our identity. And I so agree with your comment about having less to explain - even to the non Jews. I want my son to be comfortable saying that he is going home for the weekend to attend a family Bar Mitzvah - instead of having people look at him like he is an alien. In BBYO, he has helped build a sukkah every year and has led an afternoon Havdalah service in our backyard. I love that he is doing these things and want him to attend college with an active Hillel so that he can continue this experience. I have watched him take on an increasing leadership role every year in BBYO - which has really helped him to mature. He does not do much EC-wise at his large public hs - he just doesn’t seem to fit in anywhere. He fits in at BBYO. I know I may be assuming too much by saying that a college with an active Hillel is key because that’s where he will find his core friends - I might be completely wrong. But if it does not exist, then there’s no possibility that I am right.</p>
<p>It amkes perfect sense to me–we all want to replicate situations wher our kids have had fun, whether it is Hillel, intramural sports, an ultimate frisbee team or yoga classes.</p>
<p>from 2boysima
</p>
<p>When I was at Princeton, they really did serve challah on Pesach and were surprised that no one partook. Hopefully, they have figured it out by now.</p>
<p>yabeyabe, it depends upon which real world they want to live in. The maternal side of my family are deeply involved in Judaism/Jewish organizations. Many are professional Jews (i.e., work for Jewish organizations). They tend to live in towns with lots of Jews, send their kids to Solomon Schechter, keep kosher, go to colleges with lots of Jews, make Hillel the center of their social lives, and on and on. They live in that world and wouldn’t necessarily be well-served by going to a school with few Jews. </p>
<p>Then there are the others, like me, for whom a school with a smaller Jewish population is good preparation for the reality I live in. For career reasons, my parents moved to an area with Jews, but chose to move to a town in which the realtors would not sell houses to Jews. I was one of 3 Jewish kids in a high school class of 400. The country clubs didn’t allow Jews, although I played at some as I was on the varsity tennis team. And, although I don’t remember this, I was apparently invited to the Cotillion-Junior League thing. My mother recalls being very upset that I chose not to go because I was the first Jewish person ever invited. I then went on to Princeton, which didn’t have tons of Jews, though many more than in high school, but reeked of WASP aristocracy. I learned how to deal with the non-Jewish world and in particular with what was then the WASP elite, which was the real world I planned to live in. I was probably most comfortable with Jews but went out only with non-Jewish women. I had relationships of about a year each with a blond-haired blue-eyed girl from Indiana, a daughter of a family that came over on the Mayflower, and the daughter of a Presbyterian minister. My family and especially my uncle and aunt were perplexed and kept trying, when I wasn’t occupied, to fix me up with Jewish girls from their world who weren’t interested in or experienced in the world I expected to live in and had very different values (i.e., no sex before marriage, which was a non-starter). While going out with the minister’s daughter (who was an absolute gem), I did come to realize that I wanted to marry someone who was Jewish and reluctantly and with great pain broke up with her. Although I lived with another non-Jewish woman for part of grad school, began to see if I could meet Jewish women who could walk with me down the path I envisioned for myself. </p>
<p>I don’t know that my kids will do that, especially ShawSon, as he is as skeptically Jewish as I was with less training. He doesn’t even know where the Hillel is on his campus of 1600 kids. ShawD feels a closer affinity and I think that a school with a critical mass of Jews would be great, though some of the schools I like for her may not. She could fall in with a Jewish crowd, although she applied to one Jewish high school and decided that she wasn’t as comfortable there as she was at the WASPier-in-origin school she now attends (though lots of her classmates are Jewish).</p>
<p>I think a key factor for success in college (life?) is creating community, and Hillel is one way that college kids can do that. Sports is another, and music, and other clubs and activities…it can’t be a bad thing to have different or overlapping circles of friends.</p>
<p>It also depends on the kid. My son would have run in the opposite direction from any sort of religious group, while both daughters have been active in their youth group in high school, and D2 has had moderate participation in the Jewish students organization in college. I’m hoping D3 takes advantage of the active Hillel when she gets to campus in the fall, and I’m pushing the birthright trip opportunity!</p>
<p>rockvillemom:</p>
<p>Way earlier in this thread I mentioned to you the Project NYC program for your S2. It is sponsored by BBYO. Did you ever look into that for him? My S1 did that last summer…it’s a 10 day business-oriented program in NYC…he found it to be okay, not overwhelmingly wonderful, but he said he’s glad he had that experience…I’m not even sure if they’re offering it this summer or next, but I thought I’d mention it again in case you missed it the first time! 
I’m sure it’s already too late for this summer and it is expensive, but you may want to look into it anyway, for future reference in case he may want to do it next year.</p>
<p>In response to Vitrac’s post: “it’s not a school for a Jewish kid from Long Island-whatever that means”…as a parent who grew up on Long Island and two kids who literally “run” from Long Island Jewish kids (after attending a Long Island based Jewish summer camp for 10 years)…it basically means what yabeyabe refers to:</p>
<p>“A child who spends a lot on clothes and enjoys one-upping his friends is not likely to be a fit for my child”</p>
<p>Children on Long Island live in somewhat of a Jewish bubble; especially in certain towns…the % are upwards of 60 in select areas and high schools…they are brought up being in the majority from birth; a school like Juniata is NOT going to work for them (even if it would probably be a positive experience and more “real world”)…and while I’m thinking about it, most of the schools that we have discussed here (minus maybe Muhlenberg) probably wouldn’t work for that demographic…they are used to being the majority in school, life, sports etc…their school schedules revolve around the Jewish calendar so they don’t know any differently…</p>
<p>…it’s the competitive nature of certain kids from the tri-state area not just in academics, but moreso in social situations…</p>
<p>Interestingly, my younger daughter has spent alot of time the past two summers with kids (some Jewish, some not) from the Chicago area as well as from the Maryland/VA/NC area…came home saying the these are the kinds of kids she wants to be in college with…</p>
<p>This is the reason I love this thread; we are looking for a certain balance…and that balance as another poster above said, is different for each kid…</p>
<p>My older daughter attends Syracuse (need I say more?); her sorority is composed of both Jewish and non-Jewish girls…the Jewish ones hail from Massachusetts, Texas, California (Northern) and Ohio…only two are from the NY/NJ area; her and a girl from yabeyabe’s town…she couldn’t be happier…and she was VERY nervous about attending a school that is a huge draw for LI kids…</p>
<p>chocchip - I am hoping to send S2 on a BBYO summer camp trip next summer. This summer just crept up on me too quickly - and with wanting to do ACT prep, driver’s ed, etc. - it was just too much. One of his best friends is going to some type of Jewish leadership camp for 2 weeks in Wisconsin, I think. So - yes- something of that sort is at the top of my to-do list for next year.</p>
<p>stradmom - I agree completely about creating community. I loved hs. I had a great group of friends - both Jewish and non - and we were the theatre kids - and we had a blast. Thanks to Facebook, I am still in touch with the majority of my hs friends - now living all over the country. College was a completely different experience. I went to Lafayette - very poor fit for me - I just could not find my group. I joined a sorority out of desperation, but that wasn’t it either. I think finding “your people” is one of the keys to college happiness - whether it is through Hillel, theatre, intermural sports, etc. And of course, having ownership in more than one group and/or overlapping groups is even better.</p>
<p>This is a link to their school Profile. Click on the Profile - the 2nd page shows their acceptances and matriculations. Some you would expect - some surprises.</p>
<p>[www.cesjds.org</a> - College Counseling - School Profile](<a href=“http://www.cesjds.org/RedirectPath/Add1/InfoID/34692/FolderID/114/SessionID/{2DA2D296-E806-43FF-9AAF-45E03CA51009}/PageVars/Library/InfoManage/Zoom.htm]www.cesjds.org”>http://www.cesjds.org/RedirectPath/Add1/InfoID/34692/FolderID/114/SessionID/{2DA2D296-E806-43FF-9AAF-45E03CA51009}/PageVars/Library/InfoManage/Zoom.htm)</p>
<p>and for another Jewish day school - same thing
<a href=“The Leffell School | A K–12 Private, Co-educational Jewish Day School in NY”>The Leffell School | A K–12 Private, Co-educational Jewish Day School in NY;
<p>I live on Long Island in north/eastern Suffolk County. It is not a largely Jewish community, nor is it particularly brand conscious.</p>
<p>However, NYC/Jewish culture has seeped in (gee, I’d think Seinfeld would be enough) to influence everyone. The Hindus, Muslims and Christians all eat real bagels, know a good matzoh ball when they meet it, and use a smattering of Yiddish idioms.</p>
<p>Mostly the Christians have been offended at our Christmas tree. I was so envious of them as a kid and was married to a Presbyterian for thirteen years so I got used to having one. My second husband, a yoga-Jew, (completely unobservant) loves dying Easter eggs with me as the kids did.</p>
<p>I was equally comfortable with both husbands for different reasons.</p>
<p>Both kids most serious relationships have been with Protestant-raised part Jews.</p>
<p>Time will tell what will stick.</p>
<p>Neither pursued Hillel or Jewish life in college, but both have wandered happily into buildings where Jewish food was being served and Jewish people were congregated, but it was a rare occurrence.</p>
<p>DD has asked to learn to cook Jewish food, which surprised me.</p>
<p>I wrote this post mostly to discourage stereotyping Long Island.</p>
<p>Oh, the funniest thing we encountered was this: all four boys on the varsity academic team which took first place their year (yay, S was one) happened to be Jewish in a school that is maybe 15% Jewish. Oddly enough, they all had autumn birthdays too, and we had all been told to hold them back, which we refused to do.</p>
<p>It’s a very high-achieving school where the academic team participants were as valued as the football players. DS told me that at the meets (which we grown-ups did not attend) the girls at the school held up signs that read: GO JEW BOYS!!! I don’t think it occurred to anyone that this might be read as bizarre or even anti-semitic.</p>
<p>^^mythmom: I should have qualified my post to eliminate Suffolk…much more normal from my recollection…</p>
<p>mythmom - “GO JEW BOYS” Oh my - I did laugh out loud when I just read that, but oh my.</p>
<p>Rockvillemom: From the way you have described your S it really does sound like he would thrive in a community with an active Hillel and that he would very likely be an active member of that group.</p>
<p>On Jewish Community: It’s interesting what many of you have said about being in a Jewish community. I grew up as part of a Jewish majority with little Jewish education. As my kids grew up and I studied more so that I could be a better parent and I was amazed to learn that so many of my values were core Jewish values and that without even knowing it the culture was part of who I was. On the flip side my kids have grown up with few to no Jewish peers in their schools and are perfectly comfortable being the lone Jew. Everyone knows they are Jewish and this comes up when people refer to them and they aren’t offended at all. Growing up as a minority has in a way made them ambassadors for Judiasm and has therefore made it much more important for them to learn about Judiasm that it was for me.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This Long Island Jewish stereotype is a big problem for me. I am agreeing with so much of this thread; I am surprised this has surfaced. This is exactly why people from all faiths and ethnicities need experience with others who are not like them – so they can see people as who they are, not the stereotypes.</p>
<p>It’s not about geography and being Jewish. It’s about a sense of entitlement (maybe being spoiled?) - whether you are from Long Island (Suffolk or Nassau), Boca, North Shore of Chicago or from a town not known for being upscale. You may be from one of these nice suburbs and not be jappy. And you may not even be Jewish. You get the picture.</p>
<p>To me, I describe it as the difference between those who are more showy and those who are down to earth. And, while socioeconomics plays a big roles, it’s not the only thing – it’s also how you were raised.</p>
<p>Yes, I went to a private college where there were a lot of Jews - from New York and from other places. There were those who were “jappy” and those who weren’t – from all over the country. I was never a princess. My two closest friends - both Jewish, one from CT and one from Iowa (but who had also lived in the Five Towns on LI), are so opposite of jappy! PizzaGirl and I hung out at the Jewish fraternity and I don’t remember any of the Little Sisters there or any other girls who hung out at this particular fraternity being jappy. Same thing with the sorority we belonged to - not the traditionally Jewish house, but there were a good amount - and I don’t remember anyone being jappy there either! (And I definitely remember girls I considered jappy on campus, and I didn’t hang out with them!)</p>
<p>Similarly, my D - who has a ton of Jewish friends from summer camp and NFTY - also gravitates towards those who are more down to earth (and from across wealth levels). Our value is just not about the designer you wear!</p>
<p>There are parts of Suffolk County on LI where you are likely to meet more of the stereotype. Not so much where I live on the south shore (very very few Jews here in our school district). I wish this stereotype would be attributed to something besides being Jewish - it’s not a religious value! It’s about how you (your parents) decide to spend their money! I think my parents had the means to “make me jappy,” but that just wasn’t their value (not that they even thought about it in those terms).</p>
<p>One more thing. I completely agree with the person here who said it is important to have experience with other kinds of people. Because of where I live, my kids have done that already so it is important to them to go to a college where they are not the one and only. Where they don’t have to explain themselves. My S has a good friend (also a very smart boy) who is African American and, even in middle school, talked about wanting to go to Howard University. My S and I talked about how it’s important to be open to other people and, at the same time, how comfortable it is to be among people who are also like you.</p>
<p>Enough of this rant. I really am enjoying this thread. This one thing hit me the wrong way (I’m sorry if I missed a few posts yesterday that already said what I said here - I didn’t get to read every single one!). For those of you who have HS juniors, I will definitely report back in the fall and share my D’s experience at Delaware, with those at Hillel and just around campus.</p>
<p>Rockvillemom,
I’ts been a busy week and I just realized I never responded to your question for more information on the kids who transferred from College of Charleston. Unfortunately, I haven’t spoken to the kids personally, but I have noticed the trend. Students in my area have also transferred from other Southern schools, so the issue might be with the distance and travel complications. Some kids are uncomfortable with the cultural differences, which are more pronounced at state schools like C of C. Schools like Elon and Wake Forest have more of a national draw, so it’s less of an issue. Students from our area are generally very happy at Elon and JMU.</p>
<p>LINYMOM – thank you – you said a lot of what I was thinking about after the Long Island posts yesterday. </p>
<p>No stereotyping is right. There are plenty of Long Island Jews who display the personality traits that were criticized. That is, after all, how stereotypes usually get started. But to then go and paint all Long Island Jews with that same label is simply wrong (Suffolk or Nassau). There are also plenty of non-Jews on Long Island who have similar personality traits. And there are plenty of Jews and non-Jews in other affluent communities guilty of the same. And there are plenty of Long Island Jews who don’t behave these ways.</p>
<p>Jewish families who live in communities where there are a lot of Jews will have different experiences than those who live in communities where there aren’t. How either of their kids come out at the end will depend on a lot of different things – 1) how the parents deal with the type of community in which they live, 2) how the parents present their Judaism, 3) how the community influences the child, 4) how other family members influence the child, 5) what other experiences the child has, and 6) even some intangible unexplainable “self” that the child just simply brings to the situation separate and apart from all those outside influences on them. But to assume one knows how a child in a certain type of Jewish community on Long Island will turn out is simply presumptuous, insulting, and wrong.</p>
<p>One does their child no favor by feeding into such labels and stereotypes.</p>
<p>I can see that my post was very misunderstood…the problem with internet writing…sorry if I offended anyone; I too grew up in a LI neighborhood where there were very “jappy” kids and many who were not; very true that stereotyping helps no-one…I guess that some of my personal experiences have clouded my judgements…</p>
<p>I was actually trying to express why Vitrac’s post made sense; again sorry if I offended anyone…I respect all of you too much to think that I may have upset you…</p>