<p>Why not look into the Business program at IDC in Herzylia, Israel? The program is in English and does not have the additional religious requirements. Tuition is very reasonable compared to U.S., only $9000. a year and the program is 3 years. look at idc.ac.il on the internet.</p>
<p>Rockville, I think you are making an important point for business students that business program offerings can vary widely.<br>
I think MDCISSP is right on the question of why costs vary, although there are still oddities–I recall Ursinus being significantly more than Muhlenberg and Gettysburg than Susquehanna, although both pairs are close to each other.</p>
<p>I think the crucial questions parents wrestle with are:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Are nonprestigious privates worth the cost differential vs. publics? Here, I suggest you focus on (a) how important is small class size to you?: (b) (depending on the school) do higher rates of 4 year graduation close some of the cost gap?; (c) will merit or need aid from the private close some of the gap? (d) Is there is a difference in the quality of the campuses?</p></li>
<li><p>Regarding the dearth of midsize schools, if a school is beyond the size at which all classes are small; all kids are getting close attention; and feel they know everyone on campus (which some kids may not like by junior year); is there really an advantage to midsize vs. large, especially if the big time sports at large schools attract your child? </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Answers depend very much on the child; the parents’ finances; the individual colleges generosity with aid (this varies much more than I had expected); etc</p>
<p>It’s an interestng process, isn’t it? I started with some basic ideas that were kind of firm and now I’m reexamining some of them. One of my concerns about mid-sized and larger schools is the issue of off campus housing - I have always perceived that as a negative and favored schools that guarantee housing for all 4 years. But, dorms can be less that great and off campus housing can be pretty nice and even less expensive. And if there is a bus that goes from the off campus housing to the campus - even better. So, I think I am less fixated on this issue as a solid negative than I was previously. Will have a better sense of this after we visit James Madison - where I hear the off campus apartments can be very nice.</p>
<p>I’m still drawing a line between mid-sized (say 15,000 tops) and large universities - based on my concerns re large lecture hall classes, difficulty registering for the classes you want/need, etc., but we’ll see.</p>
<p>My D has one huge (25,000) and one very huge (35,000) university on her list. The first one we know doesn’t feel that big. It has had housing problems, but they’ve been building dorms like crazy the past few years. I don’t see an inherent problem with being in an apt your 3rd or 4th year - as people say, there are ups and downs with both. It’s only a shame when they can’t help a sophomore, or (gulp!) a freshman. College 1 above didn’t have room for freshmen in recent years; we know one sad story of a girl going there and living in a studio apt, alone, right at the beginning of college, having to cook for herself - that seems like an awful lot of stress (although she turned out fine). I also think she’d screwed up the paperwork, but it was true they didn’t have enough room for everyone.</p>
<p>Anyway, my D needs to spend some quality time on these larger campuses. They’re 2 of her safeties, and she’ll need to know how she’d make the size work. I know the very huge school is likely to have wonderful small pockets that she’ll feel at home in - she’s going to go stay with a senior there who is majoring in what she wants to do, so she’ll find out how it feels. She just hasn’t liked the nice 5-10,000 student publics around here, nor the privates that are easy to get into. So I guess she’s prepared to make these 2 work (they are in locations she prefers and have the programs she wants). </p>
<p>She also is very interested in New Paltz. They have an excellent theater program, and we drove through their campus last summer and were very happy with it. One of the nicest looking state schools we’ve seen, looks like a “regular” LAC in size and design.</p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestions. UVM looks great, but doesn’t offer the programs we are looking for. Same with Richmond and Bucknell. This has turned out to be much harder than I thought when we started the process. I keep hoping that there is a school that we have missed, but I don’t think there is.</p>
<p>The problem is lots of reach schools, lots of safety schools, including some huge OOS publics. I really wanted more middle ground schools.</p>
<p>I have a feeling the list is as good as it’s going to get! As we start visiting some schools, it will be interesting to see if what D thinks she wants, is what actually appeals to her. </p>
<p>New Paltz is on her safety list and I like everything I have heard about the school, other than the boy/girl ratio! Surprising how many schools seem very lopsided. </p>
<p>As far as the issue of off campus housing, I think freshman year they must guarantee freshman housing. I would prefer on campus housing for sophmore year, after that, if the school norm is off campus housing I am ok with that. I lived on campus for the first 3 years and my senior year was off campus. By senior year, most of my friends were off campus and it didn’t matter.</p>
<p>mdmomfromli and emmybet- my D also likes New Paltz…except for the male/female ratio! I am guessing that it will be easier to be admitted if you are a male right now. I wonder how the ration got so out of whack? I don’t think any of the other SUNYs are so lopsided!
The town of New Paltz is great!</p>
<p>mdmomfromli: you said that your D has very specific interests for college…what are they? You’ve seemed to put together a very nice group of colleges…maybe if we know what she’s looking for we can offer more suggestions…does she want to study business or something else?</p>
<p>chocchipcookie - most certainly not business! If I were to post her interests, plus what I have already posted, I am afraid it may make her a little too identifiable! I sent you a pm.</p>
<p>holliesue - The ratio at New Paltz is just crazy! I think it’s 65/35. Probably because they have a large education school, liberal arts and art school. While they offer business, it doesn’t seem as large as the other departments/schools. So I guess education and art tend to bring in more females. Honestly, if the ratio stays this way, I don’t know if she would want to apply.</p>
<p>We’ve given up on the male/female ratio (although it makes me wonder if that’s why Carnegie Mellon appeals to my D … ). Except for techie schools, they’re all full of girls, it seems!</p>
<p>My D has decided not to care, as long as it’s not all girls.</p>
<p>mdmomfromli: I just received your pm and answered you back. But since I’m brand new at CC I have no idea if you’ve received it:) Please let me know…</p>
<p>Can someone who’s been around a long time tell me how to save a response I’ve made to a pm? Thanks so much:)</p>
<p>My d doesn’t mind if it is somewhat skewed, but New Paltz may be a little too much estrogen!! My d tends to get along better with guys!</p>
<p>DD attended Barnard! We’re experts on estrogen-loaded schools. LOL.</p>
<p>chocchipcookie: go to your notifications on the top of the page (right); all your PM’s will show up; there’s a drop down box for inbox and sent messages where all will be listed…</p>
<p>chocchipcookie - got your pm! </p>
<p>EmmyBet - CMU is one of my d’s top choices. I did read a funny line about the male/female ratio there, I believe it was “the odds are good, but the goods are odd”. Cracked me up. </p>
<p>holliesue - if your d tends to get along better with guys, the 65/35 ratio may not be so good!</p>
<p>I picked up ShawD and her best friend from our country house and in the course of the long-ish drive, her friend told me that ShawD had concluded that she should marry someone who is non-Jewish who would then convert to Judaism, so that she wouldn’t have to divide Jewish holidays between her family and her in-laws. She also decided that she should marry someone who works hard and is serious about his career but has inherited lots of money so that he is available to time off to have a good life (or something like that – not clear about this last step). These musings won’t help ShawD pick colleges, but they were pretty funny.</p>
<p>shawbridge- ha ha… love your daughter’s life planning skills! .although as someone married to a non Jew I completely agree with her that it makes the holiday dividing much much easier!!</p>
<p>But so much more complicated in other ways… tell ShawD to contact me and I can give her a dose of reality!!! (maybe because I only did the first part and not the second LOL)</p>
<p>Do not discount the women’s colleges. D did not start out looking at them, but during the search, she really warmed to them. Her top choices were finally Mt. Holyoke and Bryn Mawr (both wonderful schools). She chose Bryn Mawr (and will be going there this year). These schools are not out of reach for the B+ student with decent test scores and challenging curriculum. Smith, Mt. Holyoke and Bryn Mawr all have robust Jewish life. Barnard, of course, is in NYC and has amazing Jewish life but is probably out of reach for the B+ student.</p>
<p>I think that ShawD’s rule of 60/40 or less makes sense. My own recommendation is that above some cutoff like that, a women’s college would be a superior social environment. Beyond some level, the laws of supply and demand create competition among women for the scarce men (and on some former women’s schools like Sarah Lawrence for the even scarcer straight male) and that competition plays out in terms of at least some women making themselves much more sexually available than they would otherwise choose to be. Great for the guys, and for some women this may be just fine, but for many, I suspect this would be problematic at best and perhaps damaging to self-esteem. I think a women’s college would be a healthier social environment. </p>
<p>Nonetheless, I don’t think women’s colleges necessarily solve the problem. A prospective Mount Holyoke student posted on a MH or Amherst thread here was interested in finding out about the relations between MH and Amherst. A Mount Holyoke student who appeared to be very happy there talked about the what she like about the school but also said,</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I saw a similar quote from an Amherst male who said </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And another MH student wrote, </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Amherst and Smith share their Hillel, if I am not mistaken, so that may makes things a little different, but women’s colleges while preferable in my mind to schools with a 70/30 ratio are no panacea.</p>
<p>As with all things, it all depends on what one is looking for. My D would not trade her Barnard experience for any college in the country, including Barnard’s big brother. However, the focus of her rhapsodies are the academics.</p>
<p>She did have many opportunities to date Columbia men but didn’t really beyond the first year. She did eventually acquire a long distance boyfriend, but I don’t think it would have mattered to her much if she hadn’t. She was very focused on acquiring an education and some girlfriends since she was the type who always got along better with guys.</p>
<p>Now a 23 (Grad +one) two of the six women she roomed with are engaged. </p>
<p>DD is not interested at this point in her life, but it is proof that a women’s college was no impediment.</p>
<p>I think “hooking up” is going to be present at pretty much all colleges, and I don’t think ratios are going to be influential in that outcome – more the temperament and needs of the particular young woman.</p>
<p>And yes, Jewish life is very, very vibrant.</p>