<p>Here is another mom, obviously worn out from the college search/application process, except she is a newspaper reporter. Her main gripe is that the college tourguides tend to sugarcoat everything and won’t answer the tough questions. One reason we always picked up a student newspaper on our college visits. </p>
<p>Colleges that can’t handle the truth
Thursday, December 08, 2005</p>
<p>AND now we wait.</p>
<p>The college applications are all submitted in my house, and I couldn’t be happier to see this stage in my rear-view mirror. Of course, we still have the scary prospect of Judgment Day some months from now, but at least we’re done with the college tours.</p>
<p>By the time we staggered through our last one in November, I turned to a fellow parent next to me and muttered, “If you gave me a campus map, I could give the tour myself.”</p>
<p>So similar were their pitches, we soon realized there was a standard script we could recite nearly verbatim. Rare was the college that didn’t try to be all things to all people.</p>
<p>The whole process was disillusioning. Sure, I knew education had become a big business at large universities, but I hadn’t realized it has become a big business everywhere.</p>
<p>With only a few notable exceptions, tour guides and admissions representatives were shockingly coy about unflattering statistics like graduation rates and cost. It was hard to get a straight answer out of some of them. </p>
Yes! You’d certainly expect that a really truly perfessional reporter would have heard of college guides, USNews, or maybe even commondataset.org. Maybe even CollegeConfidential. No wonder newspaper subscriptions are plummeting! What a maroon! She’s visiting colleges, and hasn’t even looked up the costs?</p>
<p>I enjoyed looking at colleges- of course we didn’t look at many
visited one local jesuit school- that I made D1 get up early one saturday to look at only because I wanted to see the national award winning chapel and because I had heard, they had good student support ( she didn’t apply)</p>
<p>Her top two schools we visited twice. Once for prospie week and once for admitted students weekend. Did grab the campus newspaper- the Quest made my eyes bug out- but the Evergreen paper was disappointing- even though I liked the school.</p>
<p>another school we both visited with a friend who was going to attend- during admitted student weekend- and it did seem like a waste of time- but it was a nice campus- and since she had already been admitted to her 1st choice by the time we visited, we could just enjoy it. The skill of the guide to walk backwards through out campus was very impressive.</p>
<p>I did find the student tour guides of varying levels of helpfulness, but as an old hand at touring ( not colleges but at least 7 a piece private and public elementary schools, 6 private and 3 public middle schools, and 3 private high schools, I had a good idea of what to look for, and read between the lines), I get as much or more out of talking to the other parents and students on tours, than we did from the tour guide.</p>
<p>“Shockingly coy about about unflattering statistics?” </p>
<p>With a background in both reporting and p.r., I never expected the tour guides or admissions offices last year to be anything but about public relations. I came to their campuses with a lot background information and just went on the tours to soak in the atmosphere and allow S to get the feel of the place. The most valuable part was seeing what we’d read either validated in real life or contradicted.</p>
<p>Sheesh, much ado about nothing. And yeah, she could have gotten those statistics she wanted from many sources, including the Web.</p>
<p>My fave (about the difficulty of doing study abroad from this particular Ivy school), from a guide from New Jersey who I don’t believe had ever been as far north as Massachusetts or south of Washington, DC), was, "Why would anyone ever want to go abroad when they could be spending their time here?'</p>
<p>Count me in with momof2inca - The tours are “marketing” presentations and the Tour Guide’s job is to sell the school. If you luck into one whose style is to frankly answer the tough questions, lucky you. Otherwise, a reporter of all people should know that a Press Conference is not a productive venue for investigative reporting.</p>
<p>I enjoyed the college visitation process. I found the admissions office programs to be very scripted, and yielding nothing I couldn’t have found in a college guide or on the web. The student-led tours tended to be much more interesting and useful. We had a few duds, but most of them were interesting and informative (we still talk about the girl at Amherst…soo funny…and the girl at Dartmouth who was so dull that we snuck out of our assigned group and joined another one, where the leader had a pulse.)</p>
<p>
I heard this a few times, actually, and it didn’t surprise me. My kids are pretty well-traveled, as I suspect is the case with many students these days, and I could see either one of them saying the same thing. I also asked several students about 3/2 programs, and the general feeling was that they would hate to miss out on a year at their own campuses.</p>
<p>When my daughter and I visited Duke, we went to have breakfast and picked up the local Durham Newspaper. The front page of the Durham newspaper offered two seemingly complimentary views of the city and the campus. </p>
<p>The banner story was about gang violence in Durham and just below that article was one that quoted a young lady of some campus substance (president of student government or some such thing) complaining about a lack of security on campus. It put a very bad troubling thought in our minds that haunted us throughout our visit. Even so, we were not naive enough to ask our campus guides about the brouhaha.
We enjoyed their beautiful campus (loved the gardens) and determined to continue our search elsewhere.</p>
<p>two things:
if there is an article on gang violence in durham, its because its rare and noteworthy. i lived in south central los angeles, and there is plenty of gang violence but it doesnt make headlines because its normal. my sister lives in durham and its not a citywide issue in the least.</p>
<p>there are security issues at every campus, except maybe the citadel?, and one vocal student trying to get headlines doesnt make it so. sure, there are problems but everyone i know at duke has had no problems and feels safe enough. meaning they still dont walk alone at night and such, but that is unfortunately necessary anywhere you go today.</p>
<p>In response to the squirrel link:
I can’t take it seriously because it is missing the school with the highest per capita number of squirrels, Drew University. Seriously, if you have been there, you can attest to this fact, or if you go- take a look. its unmatched in my travels. also there are a lot of deer, one of which almost ran into me, but thats another ranking list.</p>
<p>“Why would anyone want to study abroad when you can take courses all four years here” is a mindset at more than one top college. I did ask a small group of students once whether they were interested in going abroad and only one of them wanted to, and only for the summer (most said they do go abroad anyway). </p>
<p>Disclaimer: I’'ve been trying to persuade S that he might want to go to Budapest (where I’d love to have an excuse to visit). His response so far is “huh?” I’ve got another year to work on him (at least he’s not a tour guide, though).</p>
<p>Is one obliged to actually read this article before posting a response? My gut reaction is that the tours are guided by VOLUNTEER students. Sure, some guides are better than others…but, they are doing it because they want to…and so, even for someone who is quiet…one must cut them some slack and realize that perhaps this is a way for them to overcome their own shyness? It is a sales tour…and it is “our” responsibility as the consumer to do that research before we land on campus. Then instead of asking “what percentage of kids live off campus?” one could ask “how does the 60/40 ratio of kids living off campus affect campus life?” if this is truly a concern of yours. </p>
<p>In response to Zmonkeytoe, long time ago, when terradactyls roamed the earth, my hs boyfriend went to the citadel. They needed more security on campus stopping the hazing…they used to put cigarettes out in the palm of the hands of the plebes…they had to stand at attention and not flinch while this was going on… not all of them, but it definitely happened…</p>
<p>I LOVE visiting colleges. Most of colleges we visited were small LAC and I do not remember one where we did not get plenty of attention.
Few tricks that helped a great deal is to come on regular day, not Open House. College less prepared and you can be sure that food has not been suddenly “improved”. I made sure I spent sufficient time in library, going through catalogs- it definetly helps to see what air this college breathes. If school has newspaper/ literaly magazine- I would read most I can get my hands on. My H would ask to log in as guest in their computer system and check it from his standpoint. Many students are trained in their speech and you will not get straight answers. But there always more way into castle than one. Sometimes it is how the student reacts to my question- is all answer I need.
And do not forget book store. You can tell great deal about the college by the books they sell, what choices they offer.
Then, of course, we would sit in the " hot spot" of the college- bar, cafeteria and watch students interactions with each other, professors etc.
Yes, it takes me full day to investigate one college but it worth it IMHO and so much fun.
Since my D already filled out all her applications and I do not foresee any new visits I might as well start working on my D2 who is in 6th grade. It is never too early to start :)</p>
<p>I have a friend who was fired from being a tour guide because someone asked him if there was alcohol on our campus and he said yes. Apparently the correct answer to that question was he did not know, which is a funny expectation for a 21 year old junior.</p>
<p>““Why would anyone want to study abroad when you can take courses all four years here” is a mindset at more than one top college. I did ask a small group of students once whether they were interested in going abroad and only one of them wanted to, and only for the summer (most said they do go abroad anyway).”</p>
<p>Different strokes for different folks. My own opinion, for the little it is worth, is that the lack of global education (not just “going abroad” but “studying other cultures intensively abroad”) puts American students generally speaking at a major disadvantage, and contributes to our country’s insularity and unwarranted chauvinism.</p>
<p>I had only three goals for my kids’ college education: they should learn to write well, spend signficant time abroad, and make good friends. The rest, as far as I’m concerned, is gravy.</p>
<p>Mini, my daughter also wants to study abroad and will. The mindset at a few top colleges that students don’t want to spend any semesters away from their campus is one that we learned about on visits as well. This was at Yale and Harvard and I bet you are talking the same. While I don’t have that mindset myself, that is one that is common on those campuses. Then, you can either decide that school is for you or not. It doesn’t bother me at all. It is what it is and then you find the schools that have what you want. That said, you CAN study abroad at those schools. My D applied to Yale and looked into this and discussed it with faculty in the department in which she hoped to major. It was not impossible to do at all but simply there was only a small percentage of kids on campus who do it whereas at other schools, a much larger percentage of kids study abroad. I don’t find that attitude on those campuses THAT odd but was a bit surprised because I would have thought that study abroad would be something that students of that calibur would want to do (as is true at many selective colleges) but I can see their point and it is just the way of thinking on those campuses…the kids do not want to leave enough to contemplate a semester abroad. It is not like my D wants to leave her campus either but simply cares lots about study abroad. I don’t have any problem with that others don’t care as strongly about it. Choose the school that works for you, I say. Actually my younger one (was talking above of my older one now at Brown) also values and would like to go abroad but she actually is saying at this time that she does not want to give up a semester in her intensive program and the performance opportunities and what not. She wants to stick with the program, yet she still really wants to go abroad. She is saying she really really wants to do their summer program in Amsterdam so as not to miss a semester in her intensive program. My problem is I would not be able to pay for that very expensive summer program abroad. My years of paying for summer stuff are over as we have college to pay for. Study abroad for a semester is like paying for college. A summer study abroad program is in addition to college tuition! My older D is planning now to work in France this summer and then study abroad in the fall. So, even though they are in the same family, different mindsets and desires over such plans exist.</p>