Colorado College issues 2 year suspension for a joke

Colorado College isn’t commenting on the case. They’re not blowing anything out of proportion. The only reason we know about it is because someone in the private sector went to the press-- the school is not responsible for the publicity.

Of course, if that person was Mr. Pryor, then he has only himself to blame when some future possible employer googles his name and he doesn’t get the job. He and his roommate may find that this follows them for a while-- perhaps trying your case in the court of public opinion wasn’t the right move. This whole thing is a PR nightmare for a future employer.

Colorado College is a private institution. Once again, there’s no “right” to free speech in a private institution. Mr. Pryor should have known that.

^^Well maybe it has to do with the platform from which he chose to deliver his “opinion”. If he had spoken his words face to face in person, not on the internet, perhaps the school would have been more tolerant of his “expressions”. But he posted on an anonymous internet forum and maybe that was the game changer… maybe it falls under a form of cyber bullying. just a thought. At the end of the day? Good riddance even if for only 2 years.

You do have rights other than those conferred by the US constitution.

And which of those additional rights applies in this case?

What does it take to have an “idea what freedom of speech means”?

@BelknapPoint: There are probably contractual rights at issue. There may also be state laws, though I haven’t looked.

Probably… may also be…

Yup. But we don’t know.

I’m sorry but with

  • the threat of terrorism and related bigotry
  • the threat of climate change
  • the apparent frequency of cops killing unarmed civilians, particularly men of color,
  • the difficulty of zillions of Americans affording health care

I’m not going to get my panties all in a wad over some entitled little bigot having his “free speech” curtailed by a private institution of higher learning which, presumably, has some high standards in exchange for its high tuition.

I’m wondering if he also would have been suspended for saying “black women matter, they’re hot”.

If you’re talking free speech rights guaranteed by the US Constitution, that mainly applies to the US government and its agents and even there they may have some limits such as not using one’s government position to promote one’s religion or one’s favored political candidate* towards one’s colleagues and constituents while on the taxpayer’s dime.

  • Friends who work in some public sector agencies or in the military are actually barred from having any paraphernalia favoring one political candidate or party in their workspace. Especially if their workspace is viewable to the larger public to avoid giving the appearance of political favoritism for some policies/candidates/parties:

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a3_5/publication/afi51-902/afi51-902.pdf

I’d bet money that the college vetted their decision with their legal counsel before moving forward.

It concerns me that our institutions of higher learning seem to be on a witch hunt.

The student’s post was not threatening, it did not address anyone particularly, it was rude. It’s certainly a indicator (when coupled with the Yale and Hamilton threads) of warnings to give our kids before sending off to environments which are supposed to encourage freedom of thought and expression.

@Belknappoint: A quick google search shows me that Colorado College states:

“Uncensored speech — which does not include a right to harass, injure, or silence others — is essential in an academic community and will be vigorously defended. Members of the college community should understand that standards of civility, consideration, and tolerance must shape our interactions with each other. Infringing on the expression of views, either by interfering with a speaker or by defacing or removing properly posted or distributed notices or materials, will not be tolerated.”

(https://www.coloradocollege.edu/other/studentguide/pathfinder/college-policies/protest-and-dissent.dot)

Of course, the student handbook also says that:

“Abusive Behavior: The college prohibits abusive behavior, which is any act that endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student or group, or which destroys or removes public or private property, or which produces ridicule, embarrassment, harassment, intimidation or other similar result. Spectators at athletic events should convey enthusiasm and team support; demeaning, disrespectful or vulgar behavior may be found to be in violation of this policy.”

(https://www.coloradocollege.edu/other/studentguide/pathfinder/code-of-conduct/policies.dot)

That’s ambiguous enough that I’d say there are probably contractual rights at issue here. Although, I wouldn’t want to be the one to stand up in court and tell the judge that my college can expel you for booing at a football game.

@cobrat: What you’re talking about is called the government speech doctrine. The idea is that when someone is in their capacity as a government official, they are speaking on behalf of the government, not themselves. The campaign stuff has to do with appropriating public resources for private benefit. You’re right that the First Amendment applies to the federal government, but it also applies to state governments.

Must be a growing field of employment for lawyers.

Pretty broad, but seems to cover this incident.

Of course, the censorship could be considered abusive and intimidatory.

When I said US government without specifying federal, state, or local levels, I meant it to apply to all levels of government.

It is not a First Amendment issue, and not just because this is a private school, although that helps the school. As others have pointed out, the First Amendment clearly states that

Virtually all states have a similar clause in their state constitutions, which would be more applicable to a state school anyway, since the school was established by the state and generally the state still has a say in its operations. Generally speaking, it doesn’t mean you can say what you want without consequences. But those consequences cannot include incarceration, except in limited cases such as terroristic threats or inciting violence (falsely shouting “fire” in a crowded theater). So even in a government job, you can’t stand up on a desk and spew Nazi propaganda or call your boss a horses behind and expect to keep your job. You have the right to say it, but there is a potential price to pay. But this is a private school, so what are the issues?

Generally it comes down to the handbook, the rules the school has outlined under which students are agreeing to abide by enrolling there. To be enforceable, they cannot violate state law (so the handbook cannot say that in order to go here you have to allow professors to slap you when you get an answer wrong), and they have to be understandable and practicable to the reasonable person. That’s a judgement. The rules that have been cited could easily be declared too vague to apply to this situation. Is this really what they intended to punish?

But is this racism? Doesn’t any person have the right to find people attractive or not attractive for any reason they choose? Racism, at least from a legal standpoint, is not renting an apartment to someone because they are of another race. Or not giving them a job, or equal pay. Or physically hurting them because they are of another race, and hence the hate enhancement to assault and other criminal statutes. But really, we are now going to mind control what people are allowed to have for personal taste? We are going to make them date other races, or make them say they are attractive because we want to hear it? I know this will come as a shock to many of you but it is not illegal to hate another race. It is illegal to act on that hatred in many ways, but not in a lot of matters of personal choice.

No, you say, we just don’t want them to say it “out loud”, in whatever form. That is a very dangerous road. There is no end to it. So I am sitting in an art class and we are looking at Reubens and I say “I don’t understand why people find these paintings so great when all the women are fat. I thought art was supposed to be about beauty”. Ignorant? Sure, but should I be expelled from school because all the overweight women got offended by my comment? Where does it end? Those kind of personal value judgements, which I apply only to myself and have no effect on anyone else, unless you consider my not wanting to date or find attractive certain types of people an “effect”, cannot become the fodder for this kind of penalty and punishment. I am having trouble finding any difference between this and the Puritanical strictures of the early days of this country. Think like us in the most personal ways or you are a pariah and banished.

Colleges do not have carte blanche to prohibit speech, even when the college is private. They have to show that it was intended to disrupt the campus or should have been reasonably anticipated to. I am not sure that a judge would agree that hurt feelings because a person finds your race unattractive rises to that standard.

Let me be perfectly clear. I don’t feel at all the way this student does and I would never even remotely think like some of the examples I used above. I should also make clear that this is based on that one comment only. If they find that he actually posted some of those other statements, those fall outside of the boundaries I have outlined. But he says he didn’t post them, and apparently they have not proven he did. So assuming it is this one posting, to me it falls into the category of “I will defend to the death his right to say it and not be punished by the school” kind of category. If students want to ostracize him, by all means. I would. But I think the school goes wayyyyy too far, and is really very dangerous to the exchange of ideas as we have known and enjoyed it in this country for a long time. We are potentially creating a climate where nothing meaningful will get said about anything, because there is always a constituency to get offended about it and misconstrue it. Again, hurt feelings don’t count. This kind of thing is not creating a hostile atmosphere, it is one person’s opinion. A stupid opinion, but one he should always have the right to express if he wants. This move by the college is absurd, and I hope he hands them their lunch.

There is more to the story than we know.

I don’t know if the punishment is excessive.

But…this was racism.

The statement was also false. If this is what the guy learned after two years of college…two more years of college probably wouldn’t help him much.

^^^ Are you saying the school is basing the suspension on something more/other than the stated reason? The statement ‘there is more to the story than we know’ doesn’t make sense. If you know there is more to the story…please share. If you suspect there is more to the story…then you don’t know…it’s just speculation.

Would it be different if the statement had started with “IMO- they’re not hot?”

Also,to conclude the entirety of what this student learned after two years of college from one short message seems rather odd.

FWIW…I don’t find bald men hot - sorry, it’s just true. I also don’t like certain body types and prefer someone taller than I. Does that make me an ageist, fatist/skinniest or heightist?

We haven’t heard the school’s side of the story.

I don’t know why the deans suspended the guy.

The suspension may be excessive. I have no idea.

I am sorry you don’t find bald hot because I am losing my hair. I look pretty good so you are missing out. :wink: