Combating the Stigma

<p>It really shouldn’t be a secret to any of the members browsing this particular section of the forum that UChicago has a reputation for being a boring, pretentious place with the fun little nickname of “Where fun goes to die.” </p>

<p>Note: This is not a thread about that nickname, that’s simply something I think is relevant to the point.</p>

<p>Now I realize this thread is going to shine a giant 1000 watt spotlight on something that for some strange reason most people on College Confidential attempt to ignore as the elephant in the corner: the fact that high schoolers (and definitely college students) drink, and party. Hopefully we can get past that without the inane “Good students don’t do that stuff!” BS. </p>

<p>So, I got admitted into Chicago EA and what I’m most concerned with as far as the school goes is whether or not I’ll have fun there. You might say Chicago’s reputation for being boring is completely baseless, but let’s be honest, these types of things aren’t conjured out of thin air. What I’m hoping for is for someone who’s at/attended Chicago to be able to address this issue in a completely honest way. </p>

<p>Is Chicago boring?<br>
What do people do on Friday night’s/weekends?<br>
If I want to get completely schwasted seventeen ways to Sunday on a Saturday night, will I find it hard to find people who believe the same thing?<br>
Is the school culture dominated by an excessive desire to study?
Are the girls uptight? (It was inevitable)
And finally, if you’ve read this far down into my post, how disapproving are you of me at this point? :D</p>

<p>Finally, yes, I’m aware that there are most likely other threads that ask about this, but probably none as directly. This thread (<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/851643-social-life-u-chicago-any-place-non-nerd.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/851643-social-life-u-chicago-any-place-non-nerd.html&lt;/a&gt;) has been most helpful to me but it’s really broken down more into a “social pretentiousness and preconceptions” discussion with a hint of “Let’s all play Dr. Phil for your depressed friend” so hopefully you guys could address my concerns here.</p>

<p>Thanks for all who’ve endured me to this point. :)</p>

<p>No its not at all boring, I go to the city frequently I find Hyde Park charming. Usually people go partying on Fridays and Saturdays, it depends who you are but there are always lots of people the parties are always really packed when I go, there is barely any room to move how many people there are. There are a lot of things you can find here which surprised even me. No its not dominated by an excessive desire to study or at least all the people I met don’t seem that way. It seems like there is a lot of hooking up, it could also depend on what dorm you are in. There are easy and uptight girls. I guess it depends in what dorm you live, sometimes people will surprise you i think there are quite a few closet freaks, but thats everywhere. A lot of people enjoy that self depricating humor. Uchicago has changed over the past few years its becoming more mainstream. There is a difference between the 4th and 1st years. I would say the school is getting a lot more fun. The reputation is now undeserved I would say that it was true in the 90’s but not anymore.</p>

<p>The best explanation I’ve heard so far (I’m not a student…yet) is that many Chicago students did not necessarily have Chicago as their first choice. This means that these are the ppl you’d find at say, Princeton or Stanford, but were not accepted and thus chose to go to Chicago.</p>

<p>From all I’ve read, I’d say Chicago does have a markedly greater percentage of students that are “boring”, but the school’s big enough that that’s not an issue. I’ve also found that pre-2000 or even pre-2005 (class of '05) alumni are often not the best to ask b/c things have changed.</p>

<p>Furthermore, what is “boring”, really? “Boring” to some might be really fun to others.</p>

<p>Admittedly, I was having trouble thinking of the right word so I settled for “boring”. Nonetheless, thanks for the responses. I was more reassured about the scene at Chicago and thought it was headed in a much better direction, but then I happened to click on [url=<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?]Chicago?s</a> 42% Applicant Jump to Aid Harvard Rivalry (Update1) - BusinessWeek<a href=“from%20the%2042%%20increase%20in%20RD%20applicants%20thread”>/url</a> and notably saw this:</p>

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<p>“Over-intellectual angst” seems like the perfect collection of words to sum up what I don’t desire in college…</p>

<p>I hope more people feel free to put in their 2¢</p>

<p>Is Chicago boring? </p>

<p>No. It’s a vibrant and diverse community of several thousand students. There are generally many events every weekend for students to attend. More specifically, there are weekly alcohol-centered gatherings on Wednesday and Friday nights. You will enjoy your life here, though your grades may suffer as a result. </p>

<p>What do people do on Friday night’s/weekends? </p>

<p>Parties on Drexel, parties in dorms, parties at fraternities… as well as civil/mature/lame/up-tight things like going to classical concerts, attending lectures and doing homework. </p>

<p>If I want to get completely schwasted seventeen ways to Sunday on a Saturday night, will I find it hard to find people who believe the same thing? </p>

<p>No. </p>

<p>Is the school culture dominated by an excessive desire to study?</p>

<p>Yes and no. A desire to study, no. No one likes to study. It’s stressful. A desire to challenge oneself, yes. If you want to take it easy and spend your college years drinking and enjoying fraternity life, Chicago is not for you. If you want to focus on study or, at the very least, mix serious academic study with party life, you’ll have a shot at success.</p>

<p>Are the girls uptight? (It was inevitable)</p>

<p>I’m certain that you’ll find someone to share your bed on Friday nights, if it’s really that important to you. </p>

<p>And finally, if you’ve read this far down into my post, how disapproving are you of me at this point?</p>

<p>Frankly, I have no respect for you. Yours is a really shallow post, and makes you look like a complete jerk. However, I recognize that our college needs (and, indeed, has) students of all kinds, and that there may be more to your personality than this post suggests. I wish you the best.</p>

<p>I’ll just answer your questions one at a time.</p>

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<p>It’s what you make of it. Based on the questions you’re asking, I doubt you’ll be bored.</p>

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<p>Varies. I know some people who stay in and read or play videogames and such. Unless I have an epic amount of work (i.e. finals week) I usually party on Fridays and Saturdays. There’s always an apartment party / frat party / drinking contest happening. I can’t think of any weekend night where I’ve stayed in for want of parties to go to.</p>

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No. </p>

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School culture is too diverse for me to classify it, but “excessive desire to study” definitely wouldn’t be it. “Intellectual curiosity” would be closer to the mark, but there’s too much variety to easily define it. </p>

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<p>Varies. Some stay in and don’t drink, some are easy (rarer), most are in-between. </p>

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<p>Not at all. I had pretty much the exact same thoughts / concerns when I was considering UChicago. I ended up coming and I don’t regret that decision at all.</p>

<p>Rumors of fun’s death here are greatly exaggerated. All of the depictions of Chicago as a place for purely intellectual pursuit where drinking and partying are distractions are true in a limited sense. If that is what you are looking for in your college experience, you can certainly find it here. On the other hand, if you want to drink and party and smoke weed on weekends you will find a sizable crowd interested in that as well. College is what you make of it.</p>

<p>One caveat: If you’re truly looking for a frat-hard, shi.tfaced seven nights a week crowd then UChicago probably isn’t for you. We party on weekends, but weekdays are generally pretty sober. (Bar night on Wednesdays being an exception to this rule.) </p>

<p>Ultimately the University of Chicago is full of 18-22 year olds trying to have fun and get by. In that respect we’re pretty similar to any other college.</p>

<p>See, ^^^ I told you there were kids like this here.</p>

<p>I think it depends what you major in too, economics needs a lot of work from what I hear, but then again there are a lot of people doing it because they think that its something they should do. The school is challenging but it certainly isnt out to kill you academically. You actually have a wide range of decsions with regrads to your workload at this school. I go out frequently to parties and go downtown a lot. My grades have not suffered, I have plenty of free time, and I dont consider myself to be any sort of genius.If you choose honors calc or chem or bio you will be doing a lot of work, again it depends what you choose to study. I dont think its that different from any other college.</p>

<p>Just a reminder: It costs $360 per school day to attend UofC (and many other colleges, for that matter).</p>

<p>An adult perspective:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If you put 5,000 18-22-year-olds together, without a large number of prison guards (or even with them), there is going to be a lot of getting drunk, getting high, and having sex. There are certainly college-to-college variations on this, and it may be that the per-student average in some or all categories is relatively low at Chicago compared to, say, Duke. But the vast majority of students at both schools are going to be within the same range. It’s not something to worry about, unless you feel so bad about the amount you drink, and the presence of non-drinkers brings you down so much, that to be happy you need to be somewhere where non-drinkers are invisible.</p></li>
<li><p>Sex, and “easy” vs. “uptight” women. That is completely high-school thinking. By the time you are a third-year, or thereabouts, any relationship you have that involves sexual attraction will also involve sex, and plenty of it (except in the rare case that both participants are opposed to that, and sometimes not even then), and if ALL you want is sex you will know how to make that happen. The question won’t be “will X have sex with me?”, it will be “with whom do I want to have sex”? That will be true absolutely anywhere you go to college (unless it is Bob Jones or Liberty U or something). The first year or so of college is a transition period. I suspect the people who are answering this question as if it made sense are first- or second-years. Anyway, this is also not something to worry about.</p></li>
<li><p>Over-intellectual angst. There is angst at Chicago, intellectual angst. Some over- and some under-. If you are going to place a bet, take the over. However, you are going to find pretty much the same thing at any college that attracts smart kids. When you put a few thousand 18-22 year-olds together, and give them decent SAT scores and high school GPAs, along with all the drinking, getting high, having sex, and occasionally going to class, you are also going to get a bunch of intellectual angst. It’s one of the things college students are perpetually great at.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Perhaps you could find an angst-free college environment, but it’s not very likely if you are the kind of person who applied to Chicago EA. For example, the Alabama Crimson Tide football team doesn’t give off a lot of intellectual angsty vibes, but unless Nick Saban has already recruited you you’re probably SOL on that.</p>

<p>Post #3: I have difficulty envisioning most Univ. of Chicago students as a good match for Stanford University.
Students that I know who recently visited the Univ. of Chicago made similiar comments to those made by the Westminister student quoted above, but some were attracted to that type of atmosphere.</p>

<p>As an undergrad, I was in a fraternity and we went out 3-5 nights a week (on campus during the week, downtown clubs on the weekend) throughout the year–often more during spring quarter. </p>

<p>Groups of internationals, hipsters, and athletes do the same. </p>

<p>The lowest common denominator is that we all get up the next morning and do a close reading of Weber for a discussion we’ll actually enjoy. If you don’t like school–a lot–don’t come here.</p>

<p>I like the Univ. of Chicago but I am a bit surprised whenever I find a student who has applied to both Chicago & Northwestern, for example. My view is that a typical Univ. of Chicago student would be more comfortable at Reed or Swarthmore or Yale, than at Penn, Harvard, Northwestern or Stanford.
Regarding campus culture, Chicago students–like many at Swarthmore & Reed–love to tell you how intellectual they are, while students at the other elites are just working their tails off. I do not mean this to be insulting or complimentary to either type of students, it is just a difference that I have noticed.</p>

<p>^ I was just naming some other top universities. And I know of many cross-applicants, and frankly, especially with the University’s lay-prestige, I would not be surprised to see many applicants toss away “fit” for the highest USNWR report. Even the top high school students in the nation…are well…still high school students.</p>

<p>As almost always, I completely agree with JHS.</p>

<p>@lasermouse9, I largely agree with you but I’d warn against drawing too quick a conclusion on the basis of a post or two. I’m set on Chicago and even I worry about its reputation sometimes and wonder if I will, like Floyd, “showed up”.</p>

<p>People get drunk, but it is my experience that most people at U of C get drunk to numb the pain and cope with stress. It’s not healthy. Read back through some of my posts for a detailed critique. Do not attend this school if you want anything resembling a balanced and normal life.</p>

<p>The short answer to your question is, no, U of C is obviously not boring. </p>

<p>However, I actually think too many of the posts here (aside from IHateUofC who, as always, stays true to his moniker) are too pro-Chicago on the “is this school boring?” front. As I often disclaim, I only know Chicago and Penn well (went to U of C for undergrad and UPenn for grad school). I loved my experience at Chicago (especially my academic experience), BUT, from talking to numerous friends at other top schools and experiencing life at another good (but not quite as good! I still have tremendous allegiance to Chicago) university, I have to say:</p>

<p>1.) While the Chicago experience is not boring, I also don’t think the U of C college experience hits the “highs” you can find at most other colleges, mainly because…</p>

<p>2.) There is NO connecting social fabric at the school. I’ve mentioned this before, but I think applicants should know the consequences of this before seriously considering Chicago.</p>

<p>What I mean is, outside of academics, there really is nothing that connects students at U of C at all. For every event that garners enthusiasm on campus (like scav hunt), you can find literally hundreds - if not thousands - of naysayers to the event. So, whenever I talk to kids from most other top schools, they always rave about these “signature” events that really seem to highlight their time at a specific place. Penn kids enthusiastically talk about spring fling (a big spring concert) or Hey Day (kind of a college campus-wide party for juniors and seniors), Dartmouth kids talk about bonfire parties and getting drunk while tubing down the river, Michigan kids talk about big football games, Princeton kids talk about “the street” and eating clubs parties, etc. </p>

<p>Chicago just doesn’t have anything like this. When I think back to my time at U of C, I recall enjoyable dinners with friends, small apartment parties that were a lot of fun, maybe going to a summer breeze concert one year, but, as these examples show, Chicago kids DO THEIR OWN THING, and there’s no connecting fabric present at the school, at least socially. Now, some may hail this feature of the school, but I do think it’s a bit unfortunate that Chicago doesn’t have at least some connecting themes. Yes, some people do scav hunt or the winter festival or summer breeze, but you can always find lots of people who just categorically ignore all this stuff. </p>

<p>To add to the lack of a connecting theme, since academics really is at the core at U of C, extra-curricular activities don’t feature the sheer quality that you find at other top schools. For example, the student newspaper at Chicago is pretty poor, it just comes out twice a week, and even then is pretty sparse. The DIII sports teams are pretty mediocre, even for DIII (most other academically strong DIII liberal arts schools, like Wash U or Emory or Williams have strong sports teams), in terms of singing groups or other extra-curriculars, Chicago students just don’t devote themselves as much to these pursuits, and most of our extra-curriculars don’t have the sheen found at other schools (save for the academic extra-curriculars, like college bowl or model UN or mock trial). </p>

<p>The emphasis on academics and emphasis on social individualism make Chicago a unique place, but it’s not for everyone. You’re never going to have the party where you feel unified with your class (that only happens for an academic speech - the aims of education address), and you’re never going to go see a group perform or a sports team play and feel that these groups have some sort of firm entrenched chicago tradition.</p>

<p>Case in point, a capella has been growing at Chicago of late, and the best group on campus is this group called voices in your head.</p>

<p>Here’s their website: [University</a> of Chicago Voices In Your Head - Home](<a href=“http://voicesinyourhead.org/]University”>http://voicesinyourhead.org/)</p>

<p>Now, at Penn, there’s an a capella group at Penn called Penn Masala, and it’s a hindi-pop fusion a capella group. Here’s their website:</p>

<p>[Penn</a> Masala](<a href=“http://www.pennmasala.com/]Penn”>http://www.pennmasala.com/)</p>

<p>Spend maybe 5 min on each site to get a feel for the groups, and see what you think. To me, the difference is striking: the Penn group is just really really impressive, and perhaps near-professional in their abilities and qualities and dedication. Penn Masala tours all over the world, sings at the White House, and has active alumni ties. On the other hand, the Chicago group feels like a group of smart kids who just happen to like singing. Put another way, at other top colleges, there are a lot of really exciting offerings and opportunities that enhance the life of the college and bring people together. I remember going to a Penn Masala concert, and there were literally thousands of people there. Yes, Penn is bigger, but I can’t really think of a student group at Chicago that can draw out 30% of the school. </p>

<p>Also, at the concert, I remembered thinking, WOW, these guys are REALLY good. At all the Chicago events I went to, all I really thought was, here are some smart kids who like to… play soccer or sing or play guitar or whatever. </p>

<p>I enjoyed my time at Chicago because the school was a great fit for me, but when people ask about the social life at the school, I think a fair response is: it’s subdued. Yah Chicago kids do all the things other 18-22 yr olds do, but I don’t get the sense they pursue their passions on the non-academic front as well or as fervently as their peers at other colleges overall. Yes, Chicago kids love performing and singing and playing sports and having sex and partying and drinking, but you’re going to get a more vibrant scene on pretty much all these fronts somewhere else. Chicago parties aren’t as intense as those found elsewhere, the sports and singing and newspaper and chorus or whatever won’t be at as high a level because, well, Chicago kids are students first, and everything else second. At other schools, I think the identity of a student is a bit different. The Penn Masala kid is almost a member of his group FIRST (bc it’s such a committment) and a Penn student 2nd. The Michigan football player is a football player first, student second. The Princeton rower is… well, you get the picture. </p>

<p>Again, Chicago can be a great fit for the right type of student, but I think applicants should still know that Chicago is STILL (i believe, yes, STILL) distinct from many of its peer schools on the overall life front. Personally, I enjoyed having a chill social atmosphere where I was pretty much left to do whatever I wanted, but this sort of scene certainly isn’t for everyone.</p>

<p>That’s a really good, informative post by Cue7, and it rings true based on what I know. But I want to rub his nose in an obvious internal contradiction, because understanding that internal contradiction is key to a well-rounded assessment of Chicago.</p>

<p>Cue7 starts by lamenting the absence of unifying events like football games and bonfire parties. I think he’s right about that, although it’s a spectrum. At Yale, the unifying events like that were Bladderball and football games. But my wife – who feels very tied to Yale, and who was something of a BMOC in her time there – attended exactly one football game, ever (which she hated), and never even glimpsed Bladderball. I knew kids at Dartmouth who never drank. Even at the places with strong “fun” cultures, participation is far from universal.</p>

<p>Anyway, Cue7 goes on to point out the quality difference between extracurriculars at other places vs. Chicago. And he’s right about that, too – especially if you compare Chicago to the best of its peers in each category, rather than to the average. Why is that?, Cue7 asks. Because Chicago students are mainly all students first, and whatever else as a hobby.</p>

<p>And there’s the internal contradiction. Penn students (and students elsewhere) are often completely fragmented. Their main allegiance WILL be to some organization, club, fraternity, team. And there are a couple of big events that bring people together and give them some common touchstone, but it’s like Easter in the Balkans. Chicago students don’t have those mass event experiences, but in a weird way they are much, much more unified, even when they despise one another. The Core gives them all an important frame of reference – everyone has actual ideas about Homer, Smith, Marx, and Durkheim, and is pretty much prepared to argue them at the drop of a hat – and across political, major, social, and interest lines pretty much all of them approach things in a similar way, which is to say academically. They study, they marshal evidence, they check out the bibliography, they debate according to well-understood rules that emphasize mutual respect. </p>

<p>That is waaaaaay more actual unity than getting wasted together on Hey Day provides. Perhaps too much, even. And perhaps not Dionysian enough. But to say that “nothing connects students at U of C at all” is to get things almost precisely backwards.</p>

<p>JHS - thanks for the response. I think we’ve skirted around this issue before, and I also think I was careful in my post to mention that there is no connecting SOCIAL fabric at the school. I also made sure to say that, OUTSIDE of academics, there is no connecting fabric at the school. </p>

<p>I certainly agree that students at Penn or Dartmouth or Yale could be more fragmented, and that academics ties Chicago together. That’s what I loved about the school first and foremost, but again, it’s what distinguishes Chicago a LOT from its peers. In fact, I’d go as far as to say it is what makes Chicago a very, very distinct place. When you’re connected to someone else by Durkheim instead of a bonfire party, well, this is a very atypical college experience - one that I’m willing to bet only appeals to a small sector of 18 yr olds (even the very smart 18 yr olds). Again, students ask “how academic” is Chicago or sometimes, “how boring is Chicago?” (with, I believe, “boring” as a proxy for a very academic-centered school), and the answer in some circumstances is: very. Chicago asks its students to be unusually dedicated to theoretical academics at a comparatively young age. This is inevitably going to lead to a more subdued campus atmosphere and and make Chicago a place where drinking and having sex and singing and playing football won’t be pursued with the same verve as you find elsewhere. </p>

<p>Anyways, I don’t know why it’s so hard to maybe have a few events that would really gel campus together. I think we’ve also talked about this before, but I think developing those events and slowly encouraging some more traditional school spirit is the next crucial step for Chicago. Is it so hard to develop or get a few traditions started that could unify classes more? It’s almost baffling, for every school event I can think of that I enjoyed at Chicago, I can think of many people who strongly DISLIKED the event. For example, as an undergrad, I went to off-off campus shows, a few a capella shows, went to summer breeze, etc etc. I can rattle off dozens of names of people who thought off-off is a joke, the a capella was painfully bad, and the bands at summer breeze were never good enough. I do wish Chicago had a few outside-of-academics activities or groups that garnered more universal acclaim, just as Yale has the Whiffenpoofs or the Harvard-Yale Game or whatever.</p>

<p>Cue7, as I said, I think your portrayal sounds pretty accurate. But I also think you are underestimating the value of intellectual, as opposed to “social”, ties, and overestimating the difference between Chicago and other places in that respect. Of course, you are influenced by your experience, and I by mine. I am married to someone I met in college, and with whom I had absolutely no common social experience in college except for being members of the same residential college. She didn’t even live there for more than a semester – she was part of the (then) 4% of students who lived off campus. She and her friends didn’t go to Harvard-Yale games (or any games at all), didn’t go to large parties, and generally scorned traditions. But you know what? She and I, and I and her friends, had a zillion things in common, most of which were academic and intellectual. </p>

<p>A few years ago, when her mother got Alzheimer’s, I found the letters she had written to her parents during college. To me, one of the most moving was a letter in which she tried to explain to her mom why it was important to study historiography. I could have written the same letter to my mom. It was the kind of thing that was in the air at the time, and was ultimately much more unifying than “Boola Boola”.</p>

<p>Anyway, you can’t please all of the people all the time, and I’m sure Spring Fling at Penn gets as many brickbats as Summer Breeze at Chicago (and large numbers of people seem to like both).</p>

<p>By the way, because it’s sort of relevant, here’s something posted today in his blog by Scottish science fiction writer Hal Duncan:</p>

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<p>That sounds kind of cool, no? In a not-so-academic way?</p>