Community College for the 1st Two Years: Have You Thought About it?

Parents Forum
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<p>Community Colleges seem to vary a great deal by region. Some have great articulation agreements–others not so much. Our local CC is a great facility. Every classroom has a computer and a Smart board and is better maintained than the four-year state colleges. Nobody writes on the walls or the desks and in general no one litters. It’s a pretty little campus.</p>

<p>However, we don’t offer a particularly broad curriculum and our little honors program is just getting on its feet. Faculty members primarily teach (very few do research). </p>

<p>Each semester, I have a handful of students who are motivated and a bunch more who are there for a variety of reasons including staying on their parents’ insurance. I do teach the transitional (read remedial) classes, so that has some impact on the caliber of student.</p>

<p>In general, I think that for CCs it should be buyer beware. Look into what you are getting and use the advisors to get the best teachers if you can. Although my kids can attend the CC for free as one of my benefits, I doubt that either will. Child number one has headed in another direction already.</p>

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<p>I agree that students and their families should work to minimize debt; attending community college may or may not be the best way to do that.</p>

<p>My own children have taken community college courses during their high school summer break (to eliminate large intro courses they could not test out of) but had either chosen to attend community college as a degree seeking student, each would have lost out on thousands of dollars in aid/scholarships and been in more debt by going to cc instead of the 4 year university.</p>

<p>Students and parents should carefully consider the cost and quality of all options available to them - not just for freshman year, but in terms of graduation.</p>

<p>The stats for cc overall are not good; Crossing the Finish Line (unsure of author, recent publication) offers a dismal view of the 2yr/4yr comparison. For students of average ability, the liklihood of persisting to the bachelor’s degree is 35% higher if they begin their education at a 4 year school.</p>

<p>I think the experience illustrated by JHS of the gifted assistant side tracked by life is so much more likely with a student, even a very good student, who begins college in the community college system. My oldest neice began cc with the intent of saving money and transfering to a competitive 4 year school. Then she thought she would transfer to the state 4 year school, now, 2 years later, she won’t have her AA by the end of the year and she is planning a new career path that doesn’t include a bachelor’s degree. She was an honors/AP student in high school. She probably isn’t working up to her potential and I don’t know if that can be blamed on CC, or her family not seeing 4 years of college as a priority.</p>

<p>Everyone should weigh all options carefully.</p>

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<p>There are a good number of kids at my kids’ school where the plan is indeed go to the community college (which, apparently, is a well-regarded one as far as CC’s go) and then transfer to U of Illinois, to wind up with a U of Illinois degree for a far lower cost. I can’t say it’s really a bad plan on their part if that’s what their budget constraints dictate. It also seems to me, however, that the quality of CC’s varies dramatically from locale to locale.</p>

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<p>Most of my students do finish and transfer to a 4 year school; however, the school is in a highly credentialed area.</p>

<p>Neither of my kids would have found what they were looking for a community college: to outgrow ME. </p>

<p>An away residential college offers experiences beyond the classroom experience, and yes, even the opportunity to screw up. My H attended CC and then a state uni and has always felt a little wet behind the ears. For one thing, as a transfer he had no ties to any of the departments, and he chose the wrong major and has played catch up.</p>

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<p>Another concern is that CC (or, at least CC around here) isn’t a good option for certain majors. If a student wants to pursue engineering or one of the hard sciences, for instance, they’re not going to be able to transfer to a four-year school and immediately jump into junior-year courses. It’s going to take three years at the four year school to finish the required curriculum. That still saves some money, but not as much as planned.</p>

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<p>Next semester, Son’s cc is offering 9 English classes. Four are the “101” and “102” type of lit and comp classes. The other 5 (Brit Lit after 1850, Technical Writing, Creative Writing, etc.) are only offered online. He does not have the self-discipline to do well with online classes.</p>

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<p>The stats for cc overall are not good; Crossing the Finish Line (unsure of author, recent publication) offers a dismal view of the 2yr/4yr comparison. For students of average ability, the liklihood of persisting to the bachelor’s degree is 35% higher if they begin their education at a 4 year school.</p>

<p>-I certainly hope that this publications factors in that some students who start at a CC do not intend on persisting to a 4-year degree since, what the heck, some degree plans are vocational in nature and are intended as 2-year degree plans. </p>

<p>-I am sure they did. </p>

<p>-Those “dismal” CC’s keep taking under prepared high school grads and getting them ready for 4-years schools. </p>

<p>-It’s a good thing too. Without those “dismal” CC’s most public school would have a very hard time finding enough students. </p>

<p>-Those “dismal” CC students, from the data I have seen, perhaps data only at my college, perform better at the 4-year school than students who started at the 4-year school. </p>

<p>-I will look into how long it takes to get a 4-year degree for students who start at Valencia compared to those who start at UCF. My strong suspect that the ones who start at Valencia graduate sooner than the ones who start at a state public school. </p>

<p>-With this economy you have to hope the merit aid and regular aid is still there because somebody has to foot the bill for those $50K per year schools. $25K in aid at a $50K year school is still $25K per year. As I mentioned, the first school I fell in love with was Lehigh which is about $50K per year once you add it all up. I am sure the FA would have cut that in half or more but it is still a load. And that doesn’t even include grad school. </p>

<p>-I can’t think of any field in which you get paid more because of where you went to school. You do not make more money based on where you attended the first two years of college. Is your degree more valuable because you didn’t go to a CC? In almost any field I can think of the answer is no. </p>

<p>-However, having said that, if either of my kids was a super high achiever and needed to start researching before the junior year, I am basically only talking about the sciences at this point, then yes, I would not even consider the CC route. Otherwise, I absolutely would and for us is just made too much sense to not do it. </p>

<p>-CC for 2, big state public for 2, then grad school at a big name school. </p>

<p>-</p>

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<p>I continue to want to take Mythmom’s classes. :)</p>

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<p>Not to beat a dead horse, but that was me, and that was NOT what I theorized. You’ve put the cart before the dead horse. :slight_smile: A person who taught at a CC said that she saw almost everyone constantly texting in class and everywhere on campus. I theorized that the lack of engagement in class indicated by constant texting might explain why <em>those particular</em> students were at CC. This is not, before anyone starts jumping up and down, to suggest that there are not dedicated students at CCs. CCs have all kinds of students who are there for all kinds of reasons: personal, financial, what have you. And as many have pointed out, it can take MORE self-discipline and dedication to successfully get through CC and transfer to a 4-year school than it can in the comparatively sheltered environment of a LAC. That just is not likely to include, IMHO, those constantly texting students.</p>

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<p>Can I chime in on texting in class? </p>

<p>Why? </p>

<p>Because the students at a CC are disproportionately self-absorbed and unmotivated and if you want me to say it I will: lazy. Why do you think they are at a CC? Why do you think they underachieved in high school? I am not insulting them. Some haven’t figured out yet what an education can do for them. I like helping them see the light.</p>

<p>Others, simple, are impossible to help and will end up working for minimum wage for the rest of their sad lives. </p>

<p>I am not an entertainer. It isn’t my job to entertain them. They do need to be listening. I monitor what they are doing and I am not shy about telling them to stop doing things like that. But I am not their mommies either. They are adults. If they choose not to listen they end up failing and that is an expensive way, even at a CC, of learning a lesson. </p>

<p>The environment can be worse at a CC. But even if some students are goofing around and/or late there are lots more who are dying to learn. I’ve learned to focus on their needs and not the other way around. </p>

<p>By the way, some CC’s look like stalag 13. Not mine. Great buildings, tree lined walk-ways and a lush green campus near a running river and art all over the place.</p>

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<p>Here in Chicago suburbs, CC choice is restricted to CC located in your township. Most CCs here and in Chicago proper (with exception of perhaps Oakton and Harper) are educationally weak institutions and poorly-run political patronage hubs. Our own local suburban CC is terrible in every category: corrupt administration, financial problems despite a large tax increment budget, inept hires due to political patronage, “missing” classes and teachers, low-performing students, rundown facilities, etc. This CC graduates nearly no students; it’s just a money-sucker piggy-bank for its political patronage board, and a con for its poor students.</p>

<p>We enrolled DS for two middle-school summer science classes at our CC. Utterly disorganized! Wrong classrooms, repeatedly late/absent teachers, no instruction, total waste of time. At least we know it’s not a viable option here.</p>

<p>However, Wisconsin has its excellent Wisconsin Technical College system, two-year colleges that actual accomplish the task of educating “general ed” students as well as “college prep” students seeking later transfer admission to the UoW schools.</p>

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<p>Totally don’t agree with the post about CC students. In my experience CC students come from a different segment of society, and I don’t mean class. They have parents with different values, and I am not criticizing these values.</p>

<p>CC students often come from families that value the family unit more than the individuals in it. The parents may be immigrants or people who didn’t attend college, or people who just have those values, for whatever the reason.</p>

<p>Therefore the CC kids I know have many more family responsibilities. They have to get their little brothers from the bus; they have to take their nanas to their doctors’ appointments. They may have to earn all their own money for school.</p>

<p>No one thinks to maximize little Johnnie or Janie’s performance. They are part of the family unit. Their job is to get a degree to help the family.</p>

<p>In general my students accept these values. If they didn’t, they’d be bitter or angry.</p>

<p>However, they have less need to placate their teachers and “don’t play the game” as much.</p>

<p>My kids text in class when they can (lecture classes), but they are savvy enough not to antagonize their teachers. My students often missed that lecture and didn’t drink the CoolAid.</p>

<p>I can get annoyed at their lack of understanding of the “rules” or I can see that as something I have to teach them – that they are learning to market themselves.</p>

<p>On the whole I find them the opposite of lazy. They take care of family members; they work; they support themselves, and they are cheerful. Yes, their commitment to their schoolwork may be less, and they may need more reminders not to text.</p>

<p>Hey, sometimes I’m tempted to text myself. I need to learn discipline. LOL.</p>

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<p>Higgins, which particular CC are you referring to?</p>

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<p>I was recently comparing curriculums for my nephew and found that certain cc’s in our state (not all) offer an engineering-specific two-year curriculum. That program does appear to allow the student to transfer directly into the top engineering programs in-state as a junior, assuming a certain GPA. The cc engineering curriculum actually appeared to be more rigorous looking, in terms of course requirements, than the engineering curriculum at all but the most elite in-state publics. Presumably, in order for these elite publics to agree to automatically accept the cc transfers, they were given significant input into the design of the cc program. If the classes aren’t being taught at the level of rigor needed by the elite publics for those transfers to be successful in engineering, the cc would likely get push-back from the universities with the articulation agreements. I don’t know any students who have gone this route (cc and then engineering), but it looks like the state has tried to make that a viable option, at least around here. It sounds like there is a lot of regional variability.</p>

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<p>Take a close look at the requirements of the colleges you are interesting in transferring into. Some have limits on credits they will accept from a community college.</p>

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<p>I’m sure the quality of CCs does vary dramatically by locale. I looked at some in other cities a few years ago, when I was thinking of moving; the CC in my hometown (that I ended up going to) certainly had a much larger selection of classes, degrees, and pre-[whatever] programs (like pre-biology and such–not really “degrees”, but schedules designed to transfer over to four-years such that you can earn a bachelor’s in four years.)</p>

<p>My CC didn’t offer “just” online classes for anything, as far as I know.</p>

<p>Yes, you DEFINITELY need to be self-motivated and self-directed to navigate through CC. Especially since you typically have to commute to the campus rather than rolling out of bed from a nearby dorm room and walking over. Mornings take some planning to deal with rush hours and limited parking spaces.</p>

<p>Someone mentioned 18 year olds who wander into CC not knowing what they’re doing . . . I didn’t see a lot of that. Most classmates I met had a specific goal, whether it was “I want to transfer to a four-year and become a biologist” or “I want to finish the automotive program here.” The CC had an articulation agreement with all the Washington public universities for a “direct transfer degree”; by completing a certain number of classes in this category and that category, you could make the transition smoother and usually completely sidestep the U’s core requirement classes. So if CC students didn’t have any other idea about what to do, they’d get to work on that.</p>

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<p>When we did the engineering tour at UIUC this summer, the admissions counselor said that students who do the first two year of engineering at a community college and achieved a 3.0 gpa, would have no trouble transferring into an engineering program there.</p>

<p>That was provided, of course, that they took the appropriate curriculum. Also, some engineering disciplines may be closed because of high enrollment. (I particularly remember him saying civil is popular right now and only accepts a few transfers.)</p>

<p>That 3.0 from a community college sure seems a lot less than UIUC requires for freshman. But then as a cc graduate myself, I found the level of my math/science classes equivalent to those at the institution to which I transferred. However, more students at my level (and more competition) at the university.</p>

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<p>I went to a cc after HS with a 3.0GPA and now have a 3.67+ at a CC.
I think it is a great program if you A. Dont have much money B. Don’t know what to do yet.</p>

<p>I got into 4/5 of the schools i applied to so far. such as SDSU, SJSU.</p>

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Totally false. It is actually the other way around. The higher you go, the more liberty the professors have with their time.</p>

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<p>That was my experience as well. My only problem with my CC was the lack of campus community, lack of extracurricular opportunities, and I felt that there was not much opportunity for a highly intellectual student to really reach for the stars and challenge themselves without looking into off-campus opportunities independently. But from a school that offers nothing but lower-division classes, what else would you expect? The education I got was more than good enough to set me up for success at my 4 year (with little to no college prep prior to community college), and the outside opportunities that I pursued were amazing and really helped me grow into the adult that I am. Those are opportunities I never would have had at my four year. I probably would have had other opportunities here, but not necessarily better and not for $1500 a semester.</p>

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<p>I am not sure either one of us can speak to the entire country on “community colleges” and give a true or false decision - I am just giving my experience - not my opinion, just the facts. The practice of cancelling or not showing up to teach goes on regularly at my town’s cc - there are night classes and adjuncts. There is variation from day to night in terms of instruction and just how “professional” the teachers and also the students approach the cc. If that is false in your experience, great - glad to hear that!</p>