Compare Duke [$10k], Northwestern [$7.8k], CMU [$3.8k], Boston U [$7.4k] for music & public policy [no parent contribution]

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hi y’all! as I start my college decision-making process, I’d really appreciate any insight about these schools’ culture, offerings, etc. I don’t know anyone who’s been to or knows much about any of these schools, so any information would be great!

background:

parent contribution 0, I’m trying to win as many scholarships as possible but I will be working throughout summers and during college to pay, REALLY don’t want to take out loans (none of the prices I’ve listed below include work-study, as far as I know, and all include personal expenses, so I would not actually be paying the school the amount listed)

however, I’m worried about changing need-based aid by year, as there are numerous unfortunate events coming up in the next few months/years that will likely decrease colleges’ assessment of my financial need, even though in reality our situation will not improve and may worsen; I would be left footing any additional cost, which I may already be struggling to pay; I’ll probably start filing as independent at some point in college but I don’t really know how all that works or how it would affect my aid

at all schools, I hope to double music performance (viola preferred) with public policy or urban studies, my policy focus is urban educational inequality, specifically special ed and arts access, but I’m interested in all sorts of inequality and urban and international issues

I know I kind of need to figure out my priorities of music vs academics so I’m thinking a lot about that on my own, I would prefer objective information about the schools and what they could offer to me rather than advice on if I should go more for music or policy!

Duke - applied as public policy major, plan to double with music but haven’t thought about it as much because I didn’t think I would get in - $10k/yr

Northwestern - admitted into college of arts & sciences, plan to transfer to Education & Social Policy as a Social Policy major before starting in the fall; I want to do a dual degree with Bienen (music school), but depends on if they have capacity in my instruments’ studios and would likely take more than 4 years to graduate bc of delayed timeline; there is also a general music major that I could add on to Social Policy, but less focused, can’t take lessons with faculty, wouldn’t earn a BM, etc - $7800/yr

Carnegie Mellon - admitted for viola performance (first choice) and vocal performance (second choice), plan to add a dual degree in Ethics, History, & Public Policy - $3800/yr

Boston U + Kilachand Honors College - admitted for vocal performance, trying to talk to music admissions about potential to switch to viola performance instead, not sure how that would work but I feel confident it’s possible; plan to dual degree in Urban Studies - $7400/yr

post-grad plans:

probably do a master’s in either music or public policy, I’ll see where music takes me and would love to do full-time professional performance in an orchestra, but I would also love to do policymaking/government/nonprofit relating to music and/or education - maybe law school? not sure at all, non-music plans are pretty recent developments for me

preferences:

  • would LOVE to stay in the South, I love the sunshine
  • urban, easily accessible by public transportation because I won’t have a car
    • proximity to other interesting places
  • vibrant student life, lots of things to do on and off campus - I’m very social and love a good time but not into drinking/drugs/hookup culture
  • don’t care about Greek life
  • diverse student body that will push me to be better academically, but not super cutthroat vibe
  • good classical music scene (high-quality symphonies & opera companies to go see)
  • nature not too far away
  • quality of viola prof is extremely important (voice as well but to a lesser extent), as they will basically make or break whether I can succeed in music or not

assessment/reasoning:

I’ll be visiting all the schools except BU (I went up there to audition and I have a conflict with their visit weekend) this month, so I’ll be able to get a little better feel for campus vibe and meet with music faculty. I honestly have no leanings because there are so many conflicting factors to consider, but here are my thoughts about each school at this point:

Duke - best on the list for public policy and academic prestige/name recognition, but probably worst for music - viola faculty is unknown (will do more research and a trial lesson), North Carolina Opera and other mid-tier symphonies etc; also not very urban, but young, smart population with UNC Chapel Hill nearby; also the only one that’s not in the north; also most expensive on paper

Northwestern - next on the list for academic prestige, good social policy program; one of the best music schools in the country but definitely not certain that I would even be able to get into it for a BM dual degree, also my teacher doesn’t like the viola prof; seems like more competitive, stressful vibe; Chicago is cold but amazing for urban inequality studies, classical music, and professional connections, good public transport, things to do; supposedly very involved, work hard play hard campus culture; second most expensive

BU - honors college is very selective, small community within much bigger school than the others; I loved Boston when I went to audition, so much to see and do, very walkable/accessible by public transportation, love the young, smart energy mixed with so much history; lots of opportunities for friends at other Boston universities, very lively student scene; campus is weird but I don’t mind too much (I think?) - I would be spending most of my time in the music building anyway (their practice rooms are SO nice); not guaranteed I would be able to switch to viola, but potentially seems more likely than Northwestern?; no public policy major, not as much name recognition/as highly ranked, only a little cheaper than Northwestern

CMU - honestly the main reason it’s in serious contention is because I was actually admitted for viola from the get-go; school of music much smaller/less well-known than BU or Northwestern, means more individual attention but fewer opportunities; Pittsburgh kind of far from all other metropolitan areas, not great for classical music; grind culture, very tech-y, not much social life, not as good public transportation or as many things to do in the city (is what I’ve heard, anyway); name only really recognized for AI/computer science, I don’t think it would give me much of a leg up in what I want to do like the other schools might for either policy or music; however, it is half the price of the others, which is also a big consideration

other schools I’m considering, but not at top of list:

admitted: Tulane (not received financial aid yet), Macalester (slightly cheaper than NW and BU) - both admitted for international studies; also UTK (financial aid not figured out yet) and U of SC (around 7-8K), admitted for viola and vocal performance, would be easy to add double major - also, at these schools, my scholarships are merit-based, so other than my Pell Grant, they would not decrease based on my family’s financial situation if it changes

waitlist: Vanderbilt (dream school, applied for public policy analysis and would audition for music school this fall, have met with viola prof in past), Rice (social policy analysis, wouldn’t be able to double major/degree with music), Columbia (urban studies), Harvard (sociology), WashU (global studies), UVA (BA/M. Public Policy)

sorry this is so much information, I would love any insights about these schools to make sure I’m informed as I go into my decision-making, but I am mainly looking for experiences with these colleges or what you know about them rather than advice on what I should do! thank you!

Tennessee senior, chance me to top schools for social sciences! (4.0 UW GPA, 35 ACT, music ECs) [need full FA/scholarship]
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Congrats on your acceptances.

If your parents aren’t paying and your cost is going to go up, do you know how much by? It could be that you’ll need to drop out of school if it goes up too much.

In this sense, I lean toward CMU to give you your best odds - but we don’t know - is your cost going up to $20K or from $3800 to $4800. Or will your parents contribute and make up the delta.

I hate to put everything into the cheapest payment, but with the unknown you’ve given, that how I’d look at it.

Given you then want a Masters, that’s more money - and law school, hundreds of thousands more.

So CMU is not the South but you’re in the city, you’re near PItt and it’s an entertainment powerhouse. If you don’t have a car, how will you get to nature? As for Viola, I can’t speak to it being a powerhouse.

The others are not South (Duke marginally but then it’s not as urban).

All the things you want are great - but until you know future costs, I’m going with the lowest cost.

Great admits - best of luck to you.

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What is the basis for the dislike—personal or professional ? And how does this matter to you ?

If you successfully audition for Bienen, then Northwestern University is the easy answer.

Tough to turn down Duke, but doesn’t match all of your interests.

BU Honors & CMU are great options. CMU stands out because it satisfied your first love (viola) and is the lowest cost option.

P.S. Interesting username.

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As a professional, my teacher isn’t a fan of the Northwestern viola prof’s teaching style and doesn’t think she would be a good fit for me; I trust his opinion, but I unfortunately won’t be able to afford a trial lesson with her so I would be going in blind, which is definitely not ideal. I also wouldn’t be able to take lessons with her until I was admitted to Bienen (I would take with a grad student for my first fall and winter terms), and that’s if they even have room in the viola studio, which won’t be determined until after May 1. I think I could handle a lot of different types of teachers but obviously if I’m going to school for music performance, the quality of instruction and how much I’m able to grow with my professor is the number one priority, so I’d rather have an incredible teacher at a less-known school than someone I tolerate at a bigger name. Again, the real challenge with Northwestern is just that nothing musical is guaranteed, so it would be a risk to choose over somewhere where I’m already admitted for music.

Thank you for your input! (As for my username, it was just the first thing I thought of to change it from my real name, but I do love being Southern!)

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Thank you for your response! I do not know how my family’s income will change, but I do know that they will not be able to contribute at all. In addition, even if our income doesn’t change, my “demonstrated need” will decrease very significantly when my brother graduates in 2 years, which Carnegie Mellon specifically made very clear. I have no idea how this will really affect my financial aid, and it would hopefully not be more than a few thousand difference, but obviously a few thousand makes a big impact when you’re a working student trying to pay for everything. One thing that is very appealing about BU is that they guarantee that need-based aid will not decrease over your time there, even if your family’s income changes; the cost would still likely go up each year, and my federal aid might be reduced by changing family circumstances, but it is much more comforting to know that I’m not suddenly going to get a bill for 30k and have zero way to pay it. I’m planning to meet with financial aid advisors at each of the schools to hopefully get a good outlook of where costs might end up over the rest of my degree, but the lower freshman year price is definitely a draw of CMU.

I’m also planning to work through college as a pharmacy tech, and here are the work-study amounts I’ve been offered (would help cover the net cost given in my initial post):

Duke - $4800

Northwestern - $2900

CMU - $2000

BU - $3500

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Admission to the music performance programs at BU is by audition on specific instruments. Did you audition already on viola. I’m pretty sure you would have to get through that to switch. I’m not sure that is an easy thing to do. It might depend on how full the viola studios are. I guess it’s worth asking, but I’m not sure it’s going to be easy.

One of my kids is a music performance graduate of BU.

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The only school on your preferred list that is IN the south is…Duke.

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They only allowed me to audition for one instrument and my voice teacher went to BU, so I chose to audition for voice; there would definitely be a secondary audition process to switch instruments, so I’m trying to figure out what the process is for that. I know it would be a challenge, especially depending on how full the studio is, but I think I could be happy as a voice major doing non-major lessons and ensembles for viola, although viola performance is definitely my preferred choice.

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It’s been a while (2007) since my kid finished his performance degree at BU. But I can tell you…he loved Boston. The city was his campus. He took advantage of the opportunities to see great music performances whenever he could. I’d be glad to share more with you via PM, if you would like.

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Yep, and even Duke’s Southernness is debatable (in my opinion). If I get off the waitlist at Vandy, I will likely go there if the cost is reasonably comparable to the others, but other than that, I would rather have a school that checks all my other boxes than one that only checks the Southern box (this is kind of how I feel about Tulane, there’s not much that attracts me other than the location and social life).

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Yes, that would be great, feel free to message! I loved Boston when I went to audition, and obviously having the BSO right there, as well as Boston being basically the capital of classical music in the US, would be incredible; my teacher brought up the point that half of a great music education is being able to hear great live music, which I wouldn’t have as many opportunities for at CMU or Duke.

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My first reaction was in favor of Carnegie Mellon (my impression of its prestige is different from yours, and I know some good music people there) and Macalaster (our high school music director went there and lives a vibrant and varied musical life). (And not because of cost.)

I am a Bostonian and hardly think of it as the classical music capital of the US! But yet it’s a great city to study in.

I am confused whether you want a double major or double degree. I assume you know the difference!

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This is my concern - that you’ll have to drop out.

The amounts you have to pay are not easy. I’m not sure how much a pharmacy tech makes but if your costs goes to $25, $30k - then what ?

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Thank you for your input! I am looking to do a dual degree most places, but some schools’ offerings vary; for example, Duke does not offer a BM, so it would just be a BA with music as a second major, which is also what it would be if I did a non-performance general music major at Northwestern.

I’m glad to hear that you know of CMU as a good music school, as really no one that I’ve talked to has thought about it that way at all; from the interactions I’ve had in person and online, it seems like most people only consider it a big name for CS, as well as theater and business to a slightly lesser extent. Would you mind sharing a little more about what your knowledge/experience is with CMU as a music/social sciences school?

There is classical music to be found everywhere, but as a non-Bostonian, I’ve always heard it talked about as basically the pinnacle of American classical performance; NYC, Chicago, etc. are also great, but Boston has 3+ full-fledged music conservatories, the BSO is definitely one of the top 5 symphonies in the country, and so much more! From what I understand, one of the things that sets Boston apart is that it leans a lot less contemporary than New York and LA, where movies and Broadway are also very big. But yes, I agree that Boston would be an amazing place to go to college!

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If that became the case, which I pray it won’t, I would likely either take out loans (to an extent) or, worst case scenario, transfer back to UTK or South Carolina, where I have guaranteed merit aid and am not relying on institutional assessment of my financial need.

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You have assured today - but as a transfer it may be different. WIth a music or public policy major, you don’t want extreme debt.

I feel for you, as it’s the unknown you are facing.

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Based on the prices listed in the first post, you can do CMU with federal direct loan or some work earnings, but would likely need federal direct loan and some work earnings for the others.

Work-study gives you preference for some on-campus jobs where your pay would be subsidized (but the jobs may not let you work more than the subsidized pay amount). However, you can still work in non-work-study jobs instead or in addition.

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Of course you have seen this Carnegie Mellon University School of Music - School of Music - Carnegie Mellon University

Carnegie Mellon is excited to celebrate over 100 years of educating outstanding musicians.

The School of Music offers a Bachelor of Fine Arts in instrumental performance, piano performance , vocal performance, composition and electronic music. The BFA is a professional degree in which 80% of the curriculum is in music. The School of Music also offers a Bachelor of Science in Music & Technology.

Undergraduate students can apply for the Music Education Certification program beginning in the sophomore year. This program extends a student’s time at Carnegie Mellon by one semester for student teaching.

Interdisciplinary degrees through the BXA program are offered in the Humanities, Sciences, and Computer Science as well as a five year collaborative/accelerated program with the Master of Arts Management program in the Heinz College.

You might want to go on the music forum, here on CC, which is excellent. I just know faculty there indirectly. I am always impressed by someone coming from CMU (more than BU). Your impressions are very different from mine.

The BSO has a lot of drama right now. The newish President and CEO, wants some changes and is letting Andris Nelson, the conductor, go. Musicians, some donors, audience members are upset. I think he wants it to be more like LA Phil. LA Phil has more contemporary works- not thinking so much of film (or Broadway in NY). I have heard the Boston music scene (new music) as “narrow but deep.” It is a pretty conservative town which seems to appeal to you-?

You seem intelligent and discerning. Your visit will be really helpful (and maybe be skeptical of what others are saying- judge for yourself). You have some excellent choices. As the parent of a kid with a doctorate in music, I can advise you to avoid debt as much as possible. A master’s can be expensive unless you do it as part of a funded doctorate.

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I can’t comment meaningfully on the Music department at CMU, but I can address some of your impressions of Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh kind of far from all other metropolitan areas

Yes and no. It is a reasonable drive from Cleveland and then DC is actually the next closest city (closer than Philly) at around 4 hours away. There is also a train to DC, and relatively cheap airfare. People in the know will actually make weekend trips to DC because it is quite a fun and convenient visit. The airport also has reasonably good connections to many other cities, and actually was just given a really nice renovation. Still, overall, you’d probably do most of your urban fun stuff in Pittsburgh outside of some weekend trips.

not great for classical music

This strikes me as a bit of a misimpression. Pittsburgh was a very wealthy and prominent city in the time period in which relevant institutions were being formed, and they have continued to enjoy what might today be considered disproportionate levels of support for a city of its current relative size. In particular, the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra is generally very well-regarded, and again Cleveland is not too far away as well (similar history to Cleveland arts, of course). The Pittsburgh Opera company is also well-regarded. I note CMU is also right next to Pitt, and not far from several other colleges, so the student music options are pretty broad.

grind culture, very tech-y, not much social life

I assume this is more a reference to CMU than the city of Pittsburgh. CMU is interesting in that it has a few different core areas of “strength”–the tech stuff, business stuff, and arts/creative stuff (including architecture). I think in social media circles, a lot of the reputation is coming from kids in the tech area, maybe business a bit too. I would just make a point of trying to talk directly to some arts/creative kids about this issue, because I don’t know if the cultural reputation applies as much to them.

not as good public transportation or as many things to do in the city

This again seems like a misimpression again to me. CMU is located on the border of the Oakland and Squirrel Hill neighborhoods, two walkable neighborhoods which are right in the heart of what is sometimes known as the East End of Pittsburgh. Squirrel Hill is sort of restaurant central, and Oakland is a classic “civic center” with a lot of museums and such. Like, the Carnegie Museums and Main Library complex is basically across a bridge from CMU (actually, CMU is sort of spreading across that bridge); Phipps Conservatory (which is a lovely old greenhouse) is also right next to CMU; and so on.

There is then a very frequent bus system that will take you from that area to many other different neighborhoods with all sorts of amenities and attractions. As noted above, Pittsburgh has a very active performing arts scene, a lot of great museums, major-league sports, many festivals, and on and on. It is really quite a fun city, and surprisingly physically attractive to first-time visitors (it is spread out over a bunch of hills and plateaus and small ravines, so there are a lot of green space, bridges, and so on).

You also mentioned “nature not too far away” and this is another big pro for Pittsburgh. Again in part because of the topography being relatively dynamic for a city, there are some large urban wilderness parks and also riverfront parks. Then it is very easy to get from Pittsburgh to a bunch of other outdoor recreation areas, including for hiking, climbing, skiing, boating, rafting, and so on.

Obviously you should get at least some taste of this when you visit, but depending on your schedule you might not have much, if any, time to get out and about in the city. If you do have any such free time and would like some suggestions of what you could consider doing, please let me know. But I just wanted to make a point of mentioning all this, because I do think that Pittsburgh (aside from not being Southern, can’t do anything about that) might be much more your sort of city than some would expect.

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I agree that the music program at CMU is well-regarded and Pittsburgh is a nice city with a strong symphony in a beautiful venue.

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