Of potential interest, Oberlin and Middlebury place among the relatively few colleges nationally to have produced Apker recipients.
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Have you asked Oberlin for more money ?
How much of an increase in aid would it take for Oberlin to jump ahead of Middlebury ?
Has it been made clear that Middlebury is preferred to Oberlin under equivalent finances?
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S24 is at a higher ranked lac and majoring in physics. Research opportunities are needed for grad school and competition is intense (he got into 2 REUs for this summer and both had over 300 applicants for less than 10 spots and many of his classmates got zero offers). Research at his school was limited this year to rising seniors. If your S wants to do a PhD they should go to the larger program with the bigger name (so Midd) in hopes there will be on campus research and more support for off campus research opportunities. It is rough out there for pure science majors.
They might look at each school - perhaps a smaller has more access via professors. I don’t know - but it might be worth asking each about opportunities their students have had. Here’s an interesting website that might be helpful (for all three) that is the 2nd link.
Who knows if the College Transitions data is right - the student can ask each college - but Oberlin is #30, K #36 and unless I’m missing, I don’t see Midd at all in the top 50 per capita (right hand side).
Summer Research Opportunities – Physics Department | Kalamazoo College
This is a list of REUS that are available to everyone. The competition this year was intense, one program had over 1000 applicants for 4 spots. I have no idea why S24 got offers but my thought is that he got a good recommendation from a known professor and comes from a well known name school. I didn’t look at the offerings at the different places but the more majors the more high level electives they will have which help with PhD admissions
I understand - you made the comment and K had it on their website - so I posted - hence I noted - it’s relevant for all three.
Personally, I’d dig deeper with each school - for the exact reasons you provided - who is connected.
It could be a smaller school is better - more mentorship, taking under the wing or a bigger program is better.
My program for journalism was tops - but yet 90% didn’t make it - but the school name is great - because yes volume did make it but in reality smaller programs had better outcomes overall. It could be a similar effect - I’d certainly investigate.
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It may have helped that, at his LAC, he may have had more personal help in writing his application for the REU.
In any case - congratulations to your son on being offered spots on these REUs, especially such competitive ones. I know that these are especially competitive, since, as a rule, the students who apply for REUs are usually highly qualified. So even with some help, your son needs to be be super-qualified to be selected.
I will add (for the @mbeoughe) that there are also many opportunities that are not advertised widely, since they are not being funded through an REU supplement, but are funds earmarked for hiring undergrads as techs. Usually they go to undergraduates from the university which is being funded, because they are not advertised. However, these funds are generally not specifically earmarked for undergraduates from that institution. They also require that the undergraduate reach out as inquire about the opportunities.
These opportunities also are much less competitive because they are really to pay undergraduates to do tech work, rather than explicitly funding research for undergraduates. However, most PIs are very happy if an undergraduate student tech is interested in actually being part of a research project.
My point is that, while REUs are great (they really are), and are the best way for an undergraduate to get research experience, they are not the only way.
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Ha. No. He wrote the applications on his own with me as a proof reader. But onto your other point that is interesting. I wonder how undergrads find those other opportinities. For op and their son, this is another thing to think about for a very, very small physics program.
But this is why they should ask all three. The PhD data, third party, show K and Oberlin outperform Midd. Is it true ?
I’m sure the student can set up meetings with the department chairs of all three and have these discussions about research opportunities and the possibilities of PhD.
I would seek direct feedback vs making assumptions.
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As an opinion on PhD productively analyses, these results can be at least as dependent on choice as on opportunity. Students who intend to pursue employment or professional school after graduation may be very accomplished and successful while at the same time diminishing PhD productively statistics. Nonetheless, the quality of opportunities for PhD attainment can be excellent from some colleges at which such a path represents one of many choices open to graduates.
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This caught my eye–I attended Oberlin. have a child about to graduate Kalamazoo, and have a child considering MIddlebury.
We have mostly been very happy with K. My daughter has had incredible relationships with profs and reports excellent teaching and advising. The K plan has a lot of positives for many kids. Downsides have been small size (only three profs in her major…and boy does she know them well!),very mediocre food, and a recent sense that the school may be struggling a bit financially. She had a wonderful study abroad experience and currently has a fantastic job with the Center for Civic Engagement. I want to mention that for her, the semesters vs trimester schedules made taking classes at WMU seem impossible, but we are from out of state.
Comparing our experiences, it seems like I had more access to really creative, intellectual kids and also benefited from the significantly larger size and better resources of Oberlin. This felt like enough of an issue for her that we focused on schools with more than 2000 students for our son.
As for Middlebury, my kid is super drawn to the beauty but I have concerns about what looks like some administrative muddle and the very preppy/wealthy nature of the school. I do think it’s quite a different feel from Oberlin. FWIW, Oberlin nature experiences were few and far between when I was there…they do have a small “arb” that in my time was just a patch of woods. It’s a lot of cornfields around there.
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My kid contacted the faculty member at U Chicago that she wanted to work with to ask whether he was taking undergraduate interns. That is also how she found her job between undergrad and grad school - she reached out to the faculty who were doing research that she found interesting. Many will advertise on their university website whether they are looking for undergraduates for their lab.
PS. @mbeoughe - I recommend having your kid bookmark these links. They can start looking for internships and tech jobs this coming fall, for the summer between first and second years.
Jobs are also often advertised in places like HigherEdJobs or InsideHigherEd:
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Yes, the student appears to prefer Middlebury College due to the natural beauty of the campus and the surrounding area.
Also, unlikely that Middlebury College would increase aid without changed circumstances.