Talk to me about what it's like at Middlebury

Parents Forum
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My son is deciding between Middlebury, Carleton, and Vassar. He likes all three schools, and has visited all 3, but only saw one (Carleton) during the school year.

He loved the kids at Carleton and the vibe there. We loved Vassar’s beautiful campus and its strengths are in line with his: he is interested in English or History, with a side interest in film or potentially other social sciences or humanities…not a STEM kid.

However, he is also crazy about mountains, and for that reason (and really only that reason, other than the nebulous “I just see myself there”), he wants Middlebury. There is a cost issue that we’ll cover in a minute, but the main things for me is I’m just not sure the school is a fit for him. So, I would love to hear more about what it might be like at MIdd for a humanities-focused Southern kid with no experience with serious wealth who has never been skiing and will not be a athlete (but is also not full ride/Posse). I’d also like to hear about the general vibe of campus these days….I have seen info about some minor financial instability and a number of heartbreaking student deaths (not blaming this on Midd, but it sounds rough, and my son has already experienced loss of a friend and its aftermath).

More background: My son has lived in Florida his whole life and attended magnet schools inside Title 1 schools his whole life. He has no experience with prep school kids or serious wealth. He certainly has some wealthier friends (think nice big house, nice vacations) but really has no experience at all with “top 1%” people, and when he grew up money was fairly tight. We are now doing significantly better financially after job changes and he has experienced the benefits of that, but the point is that I would still describe his background as modest. He has never skiied or done any snow sport in his life. He will not be a varsity athlete (interested in club and intramurals). He LOVES mountains (did one backpacking trip to Yosemite, and we often go to the GA mountains for summer vacation) and loves hiking and the outdoors. I find his personality a little hard to sum up–intellectual but friendly, artsy, and outdoorsy?– but overall he felt a strong match with the kids at Carleton, if that gives you an idea. He is more a “might get a PhD” kid than “might become an investment banker” kid, though I don’t think he’ll do either.

MOney:
Let’s say Carleton is X: best offer (and better than we anticipated)
Vassar is X + $5000 (about what we thought we would pay)
Middlebury is X +$7000 (more than what we thought but not by a ton)

We are good at belt tightening and we will unquestionably expect summer earnings and campus job from our son. We can probably make any of these work without loans, although it’s possible he would need to accept the small subsidized loan Midd offered. But I don’t see that “mountains and hiking” justifies an additional $2000-7000 (plus increases) per year. However, I was willing to accept Vassar’s higher cost, so in some ways I see myself as a hypocrite. I freely admit that my feelings here are influenced by my “not necessarily a fit” feeling I have about Midd.

ETA: I don’t really need the standard “go to the cheapest school” advice, though I know it may sound like I do. I mainly want to hear about Midd. Thanks!

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Middlebury College declining applications?
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Midd is not in the mountains. Its elevation is 430 feet. It’s surrounded by - mountain ranges but they’re not mountains -like say a Colorado College or Westminster would be. Or even a Claremont school.

Vassar isn’t quite as close but also not far from the Catskills and especially Shawangunk Ridge. If you feel the school is a better fit, he can have ‘hills’ either way.

Belt tightening is ok but don’t overstrain yourself financially. And ensure your cost will remain the same all four years. Many schools reassess aid annually so if you’re doing better, aid may go down. Check each to see their annual process. And don’t forget, Carleton is on quarters - which may be good or bad.

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I don’t think it is fair to you or your student to attend the higher price schools and then live with four years of trying to justify the extra cost. That is a lot of pressure. The belt tightening can wear down a kid and manifest as guilt and erode confidence. The truth is the schools may not be worth more. Go with x.

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I know it itself is not on a mountain, but there are a lot of mountains nearby and visible from campus. I have been talking and talking about the Vassar area’s mountains.

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The delta from Vassar to Midd is small.

It’s the delta to Carleton that isn’t.

Life is long and the mountains aren’t going anywhere. No matter what you do - please ensure your financial well being matters.

BU assures the same amount of need for four years.

At Carleton, it looks like it re-sets each year.

I don’t see Midd or Vassar noting this either way.

But if your income is going up and someone guarantees the first year amount, that might be another consideration.

I don’t see that any two - but only Carleton (that I can find) says you need to apply annually.

But I’d ask the others - if your financial situation continues to or is expected to improve.

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Hmm, I thought one typically reapplied every year? We had to for my other kid. For reasons I won’t get into here, our income is more likely to go down than up, increasing our financial need (as in, need the school will see). I am assuming all 3 schools can handle this if it happens.

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Can’t speak for the others but my D22 is a senior at Vassar and our aid stayed roughly the same every year even as costs increased and our income went up. But the amount we paid was substantially the same every year (I’d say less than $1000 difference, maybe less, so by senior year we were actually paying a smaller percentage of our income). The only year it went up was after she made a lot of money one summer and we didn’t move it into her 529. That year the student contribution increased quite a bit. But the parent contribution stayed the same even that year and lesson learned - if the kid is contributing summer earnings toward college costs dump their money into the 529 before filling out FAFSA that year! Otherwise it’s assessed at a much higher level.

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And agree “mountains” are just as accessible at Vassar. The kids we know at Middlebury are either low income or middle income but they are all super outdoorsy and two of the three ski both downhill & xcountry. One is a varsity athlete (not skiing)

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This post includes a few subjective comments on Middlebury and Vassar:

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My nephew is from DC (well south of Vermont but not really the South) and majored in Classics at Middlebury and had a great experience. There was an adjustment period (partly to the weather, partly finding his way in the social scene), but in the end, I think he was really happy there. It sounds like my nephew was probably more accustomed to being around wealth than your kid is (from a well-off neighborhood of DC-adjacent professionals), so that wasn’t part of the adjustment he had to make. My nephew is now in law school, but I think that’s because the academic job market scared him away from Ph.D. programs. If he had no constraints, he likely would have pursued a Ph.D. in Classics.

Intellectual/friendly/artsy/outdoorsy sounds like a good fit for any of these schools, honestly. “Outdoorsy” means something different in different parts of the country, but they all have popular outing clubs that sponsor hiking/skiing/camping/kayaking/etc. trips (obviously with some variation depending on location),and I recommend that your son look into these if it’s important to him. He’s going to be surrounded by wealth no matter which school he chooses, though it will probably be least noticeable at Carleton (because Midwestern wealth is less about the prep-school scene) and most at Middlebury. There are plenty of Ph.D.-bound kids at all of these schools, though there are surely more at Midd on the investment banking track.

When you’re in most places in Vermont, you feel like you’re in the mountains. The base elevation is lower than in Colorado, but often the vertical rise is similar. Not to get into the weeds here, but let’s say you’re in a typical ski town in CO and the elevation is 8,500 feet and the peak of the ski mountain is 11,000 feet – that’s not very different than if you’re in Killington, VT, where the base 1700 feet and the peak is 4300. Middlebury is a lower elevation, but it is surrounded by mountains, and skiing, hiking, and other outdoors activities are very much in its culture. It’s much closer to skiing than Colorado College is. But this kid is not a skier, so the point is that when you’re at Midd, you feel like you’re in the mountains and you’re close to a lot of mountain-based outdoors activities.

But there are plenty of year-round outdoor opportunities to be had at any of these schools. Your son should look into those if it makes that much of a difference to him. Socially, he sounds like a better fit at Carleton or Vassar, but I think he can find his people at any of these schools.

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They do seem accessible, but from what we can see, the Middlebury Mountain Club is just incredible in terms of opportunities…Vassar definitely has this, but less so.

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So your costs did not rise as tuition went up? They did for my other child, but she was not technically at a meets-need school.

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Leaving the money piece aside, I would be extremely wary of substituting your judgement of “good fit” for your son’s.

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It seems telling to me that your S felt he found his community at Carleton. That’s very important at a SLAC in a small town. His life will be largely spent with those people for 4 years, on campus. Carleton has a reputation for attracting kind, nerdy, earnest students and our pretty intense research into it (and the students we know who have attended) fit that description. My son applied (but withdrew when admitted ED2 to Wesleyan) and it spoke to that side of him, though he is a bit more alternative/artsy at his core and ideally wanted a slightly larger school.

We toured Middlebury last summer and my son opted not to apply. He did catch the “country club” vibe, and our tour guide had the unfortunate habit of referring to all of Middlebury’s resources and money in a way that was a turn off to him (e.g., there’s a raffle at the start of the year and the prizes aren’t just regular prizes, they’re “middlebury prizes,” like TVs and plane tickets and other high end items). Anyway, my son also doesn’t ski, isn’t a recruited athlete, would rather pursue a PhD in math or philosophy than head to Wall Street, so he was looking for a different vibe. That said, it’s hard not to be at least a little romanced by Middlebury. The town is so charming, the campus is so gorgeous.

In my gut, I think that kids who find Carleton and Vassar appealing might find Middlebury too preppy and sporty for their liking. But of course that is a generalization and I’m sure there are non-preppy outdoorsy kids loving Middlebury’s amazing resources and fantastic English department.

As for the money of it all, if your son is determined to go to Middlebury, the $2k price difference can easily be made with a summer job. I don’t know that money should be a deciding factor here. To me, the vibe fit with Carleton is a more compelling argument for the decision.

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You need to contact each school to see what happens in year two. Carleton states on the website. The others do not. So ask them!!

At BU, even if income went up, it stays fixed.

So each school may use a different process. They may not. But that’s why I’d ask.

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Looks to me from my research that all of them require us to resubmit CSS and FAFSA annually.

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That’s a fair comment, but he himself says he thinks the kids are very likely a better fit at the other two schools. It’s just the intangible “but I loved it” thing that is different. Also, my husbands and I understand the “wealthy New England” vibe (he is from Maine, and I worked and lived in NH for a while) a lot better than our son does. It would have probably helped a lot to visit during the school year.

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That is very true.

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No they stayed about the same all four years. I can’t say that it would be the case for everyone - I certainly saw occasional complaints on the parent Facebook page - but that was our experience.

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Ok good - I couldn’t find that.

I’d vote Carleton and then Vassar based on your need levels and that you say income is going down.

To me, it should be a student call (not mine of course) but the parent should always have a veto for financial purposes.

Btw - how about travel costs from Florida. Flying to Burlington isn’t cheap. Albany may be though on Southwest but then you have to get to Midd. Both the others have logistics issues too but likely more low cost flights.

Might be another thing to think about, especially with your income going down.

Ps - you said this and it might be even more important with declining income.

Good luck