Kalamazoo college is essentially free, Middlebury and Oberlin have similar parental contribution around $30000.
Absolutely loved Middlebury when visited, likes the music stuff at Oberlin, Kalamazoo is hometown. Oberlin and Middlebury have larger physics departments and offer concentration he wants. Kalamazoo and Oberlin produce a ton of phds
We can manage the tuition but are wondering if the added prestige/ campus experience justifies dropping $120,000.
Middlebury and Oberlin are about as different as you can get in terms of vibe and student body…I would expect many kids to have a strong preference after seeing those two schools. If your S identifies lgbtq+, Oberlin could make sense. If not, I would recommend one of the other two schools.
In terms of the extra $, only you/your S can decide what’s best for the family. I would let him choose if the extra money doesn’t require loans or negatively impact parent retirement fund. I wouldn’t hesitate to choose kzoo though, assuming he would be happy to attend.
Frankly I do not see advantage of paying $120k for Physics here, unless I am missing here. It is not Kalamazoo vs MIT or Cornell or GaTech. I would use $120k for grad school or down-payment for house in the future.
It depends. If the student wants to be on Wall Street or a high end consultancy, Midd is likely best.
If he wants to go to grad school and if $30K requires loans or grad school requires loans (a Masters), K is best.
K may be most flexible academically - as the curriculum is more open.
None of the three put out detailed career data - so it’s hard to tell which are getting better jobs.
I’d probably pick based on desired outcomes.
For undergrad Physics and these LACs, I would suggest prestige is pretty much a nonfactor.
Whether any of the colleges seems like a better cultural fit strikes me as an important question. I would not necessarily recommend all three to many kids.
And then the available Physics curriculum also strikes me as a potentially valid consideration, although what dollar value to put on that is very personal.
He won’t have loans from any of them. Only concern from K is small size of the department and how that will limit research opportunities.
The possibility of life changing new experiences at Middlebury or Oberlin as opposed to staying in his home town is the other thing that is causing him to be hesitant about just doing K.
As far as the fit, he is a musically talented, play writing stem kid who also plays sports, rock climbs and hikes. He loves the vibe at each place. Midd is just so beautiful and completely different from where he grew up.
Is the goal to go on to PhD study in physics or something else?
Physics is a small major at Kalamazoo – College Navigator - Kalamazoo College says that 4 students graduated as physics majors in a recent class. This can be good if the student wants lots of personal attention from faculty in and out of class, but it may be worth asking the physics department if (a) all of the upper level physics courses listed in the catalog are offered frequently enough, and (b) how students do in going on to PhD study in physics and other post-graduation destinations.
The same may apply to a lesser extent to Oberlin (11 physics graduates in a recent class) and Middlebury (19 physics graduates in a recent class).
I personally think there is a lot of value to going away to college and not staying in the same place he grew up. Not saying the money doesn’t matter, but if I could make that happen I would. I know nothing about Kalamazoo - never heard of it other than here on CC - so I have no opinion on it as a school. But we know kids at both of the other schools and they are very happy and have had amazing experiences. My D22 loved Oberlin when we visited and might well have ended up there had she not gotten into her ED school. Middlebury is gorgeous and definitely the most “prestigious” - but kind of in the middle of nowhere and the student body is a bit more mainstream than Oberlin.
All are terrific schools. I do think that if you are comfortable spending the money, going away for school is such a valuable experience, and it sounds like the physics programs at Oberlin and Middlebury are better-resourced than the one at Kalamazoo. Between the two, it really comes down to priorities and fit. Oberlin’s music resources are unmatched, if that’s important, but Middlebury will certainly provide opportunities. Middlebury will likely offer more outdoorsy recreation like rock climbing and hiking. Both will be places where he can major in STEM but do a lot of coursework or double-major in something creative. FWIW, the son of good friends is graduating from Middlebury next month with a degree in physics and has been happy with his experience. He is heading immediately to grad school, as he was advised by his professors that in order to pursue a career in physics, you have to have a Ph.D., and taking time off before grad school would not be to any student’s advantage (it seems that physics programs want students fresh from undergrad, with exposure to the latest research). When thinking about budgets, be aware that any doctoral program in physics is likely to be fully funded, so you don’t need to factor that into your budget as you would law school or med school.
Agree with comments that Middlebury is beautiful and has a great community. Students seem to love their campus life and benefit from the alumni network. Your child will meet many interesting people there – a close friend of mine was a musician going in, but ended up having a great career on Wall Street.
Oberlin definitely has more of the philosopher/individualistic/idiosyncratic types based on my interaction with alumni in my circles.
Also agree that the student may benefit from living away from home while in college. Good luck!
I love being away from home. Part of me feels if you have Midd, with no merit offers at $30k, there has to have been significant need. But obviously you somehow got funding.
It’s truly a personal call given the $120k delta. I assume K is also on campus ?
If the student maxes out K’zoo offerings, can the student continue with upper level Physics at Western Michigan?
I understand the value of a young person navigating a new environment, which would mean Middlebury or Oberlin. Is that worth $120K? Depends on the family’s resources.
We looked at Kzoo through athletic recruiting and were very impressed – we met lots of students from CA, though plenty were from Michigan and surrounding states as well.
That is the thought if he goes to K. He spoke to a graduate of his high school who supplemented Ks courses with Western Michigan courses so that is definitely something we are thinking about. If K was an hour away it wouldn’t be a question for him I think. Really is a great school.
Yes he would live on campus.
Do you know which PHD program he is going to?
PhD in physics or bust at least at this point
I’m sorry, I don’t remember.
Going away to school and having exceptional options available that are affordable—seems like a great situation to me.
As far as Oberlin and Middlebury go, they are pretty different experiences, culturally. Has he been following the 2030 class Instagram pages for each? It’s a decent way to see the kids who would be in his class, read about their interests and try to keep getting a vibe check.
With small schools, fit is really important. Given his interests, there are things about each that I can see why he’d like both. I lean toward Middlebury for the outdoorsy life and the very different life experience, but it’s worth looking into the music scene to see if there are some good opportunities for him. What kind of music does he make? Likewise, Oberlin has a great music scene, but will he find a climbing and outdoorsy community?
These 2 are also similarly sized, which I think is an important consideration in SLACs. My S26, who has some similar interests as your S26 (music, rock climbing), was looking for a larger SLAC and was considering Oberlin. (He found his sweet spot at Wesleyan.)
Many on the CC have posted that LACs can have a high mix of athletes. I don’t see stats on these two but can that be an issue?
Others talk about Oberlin and the LGBTQ presence if you are straight - dating etc.
Here’s a few years old article. Other sources are showing 50%. Is that a concern of the student ?
Finally, more than half of Midd is full pay. I can’t imagine anyone paying sticker at K. Over half at Oberlin get need aid and near half substantial merit aid.
Coming from a need family, will it be an issue keeping up socially at Midd from a $ and cents POV?
These might be things to look at.
There is nothing to spend one’s money on at Midd…
In any case, it wasn’t a problem for my kid, and we would have likely had a similar parental contribution, if not for the scholarship. The most popular activities are studying, engaging in various outdoor activities, hanging out, and drinking. Nothing which costs much money.
It did help that she had the Posse students (a total of 120 students) for support, and my kid’s philosophy of life precludes her from caring about trying to “keep up”. She and her friends are really not into consumerism and very much into reducing waste and carbon footprint. You don’t feel the need to “keep up with the Joneses” if you don’t think that the Joneses’ spending patterns are something to emulate.
@mbeoughe I think that best choice (by a hair) is probably Middlebury, because of the larger Physics department. For many majors, there is a good chance that the student will change majors. However kids who are really into their major rarely do so. My kid knew that she wanted to major in Neuroscience and then go and do a PhD. She did play with a few minors, but her major remained Neuroscience, and she is finishing her first year as a graduate student. I assume that this will be the case for your son as well.
The big advantage of a larger physics department is that it means a larger network, and access to more places for summer internships. Middlebury has 9 TT or tenured faculty members, Oberlin has 7, while Kalamazoo has 4. It also seems that Middlebury has a far larger selection of courses in physics than does Oberlin.
I think that you and your son should also look at the offerings in physics at each of the colleges. I’m certain that he has his specific interests, and it can be important that the college will have classes in those topics.
That being said, for $120K less, Kalamazoo is an excellent choice.
PS. my kid is LGBTQ, and it wasn’t an issue at Middlebury.