Concerned my son isn't reaching as high as he can, please make suggestions!

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hello, well let me say that this site is a really incredibly resource that I actually came to through my son, so its ironic that I should now be posting here with questions about him. Anyway, I’m in this position where I feel like not only could he reach higher in his college selectivity, but he could definitely get much more FA which is certainly a concern for us from some of these more elite schools. I don’t find anything wrong with his list, and he does have certain reasons for his schools, but alot of it seems superficial, and I think he believes that only certain schools can have a great social scene (both the partying and just being with friends), and that schools of certain academic caliber can’t still throw great parties. I went to an HBCU, but I don’t want to force him into anything like that, besides, I believe he can use the experience of meeting more people. </p>

<p>I’m wondering if you all could maybe look at what he’s been talking about, maybe make some suggestions on some more schools he could be overlooking in this rush to find these party schools. He doesn’t mind big cities, but he says that he would rather more of the life be on campus, but he’s certainly not opposed to going out and getting it. His grades and all are as follows (to the best of my memory):</p>

<p>Black Male from New Jersey
His school isn’t ranked or anything like that.</p>

<p>Taken most (or almost) rigorous courses at school, I believe he may have dropped one class this year.</p>

<p>His GPA is something like a 3.9 W, I’ll have to ask him what it is unweighted.</p>

<p>He’s got something like a 1970 or 1980 on his SAT, a 1360 combined total. He says on his retake he’s aiming for a 2100 so let’s hope.</p>

<p>He’s done alot of work in the church (I would guess over 300 hours over the past few years), he’s held down a steady job since he was around fourteen, and he’s pretty decent at Spanish (though I never get to hear him speak it) and even used to know some Japanese that he taught himself. He’s also in a few leadership position in some clubs in schools, as well as starting some yearbook type of organization, as well as some other things.</p>

<p>He’s really interested in Psychology and to a lesser extent Anthropology. As it is his list is something like:</p>

<li>University of Miami (A great school, but I think he’s thinking about something else too)</li>
<li>USC (again, a great school, but he doesn’t really seem to have a reason he says)</li>
<li>Penn State (This he said was his safety, as well as having friends that go there)</li>
<li>McGill (This was kind of a random choice, he’s got a love of travelling though and seeing the world so maybe that had alot to do with it )</li>
<li>UC SB (I think this was another party school type of choice)</li>
</ol>

<p>I’m sure there are others but I can’t recall them. Anyway, I want to know maybe some other options I could present to him that not only give good FA (alot of the schools aren’t the most FA friendly), but also may be more on a greater calibur and still has that great social life that he thinks can only be found in California or Miami.</p>

2

<p>concerned…That is a pretty good list for a guy— if he is looking for big merit money and an active sports/social scene. I don’t know where your guy wants to end up in life, but all of those schools offer a great launch pad.</p>

<p>Given his social interests and your ambitions for him :wink: , Williams, Stanford and Dartmouth might be good fits–though perhaps not as generous as UM and USC. How important is the dosh? pm sybbie about Dartmouth and momrath about Williams.</p>

<p>He might need a high CR score for those schools. Did he score over +700 on CR?</p>

<p>He sounds like a great kid. Good luck!</p>

3

<p>Might as well apply to UCLA if he’s applying to UCSB. Definitely has the exciting social/sports atmosphere he’s looking for.</p>

4

<p>I think I “talked” to your son on here, and told him I thought he could throw in a reach or two schools. But he indicated that he was completely satisfied with his list, and he certainly gave me the impression that he had his reasons. </p>

<p>I remember teasing him because he said he didn’t want to go anyplace cold, and when I pointed out that Montreal is like the coldest place in North America :wink: he said he other good reasons for choosing McGill. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>It’s a tough one - I guess I’d be pleased that he’s given it as much thought as he has!!!</p>

5

<p>I dont think he scored over a 700, though it was a 680 or 690 I’m pretty sure. I think he’s making good decisions, I may be falling under the curse of caring too much about rankings. I just don’t want him to go somewhere on an idea that he can only find a great social scene in ONE type of location. He’s one of those kids that are innately smart but lives a more liberal life than most academically inclined students. I sometimes wonder what he wouldve been like had he chosen the more studious life heh, but he turned out great this way. I just wanna make certain he’s not missing out on some of the higher ranked schools because of this mindstate.</p>

6

<ol>
<li><p>I would be very concerned about a student’s picking college based on the perceived “social life,” which in my experience means the student is very interested in partying/drinking. I would not support that at all. The kind of social life issues it sounds like your S is looking for are something different than, for instance, making sure that he won’t be the only black student on campus, which to me is would not be equivalent to trying to find a party school.</p></li>
<li><p>You need to let your S know how much you are willing to pay each year for college and let him know that either he needs to apply to colleges where he’d be assured that what you can pay is all that he would need (and that may mean applying to state public universities/community colleges or applying to places that guarantee to meet 100% of documented financial need – and the college’s idea of your need, must = your idea of your financial need) or he needs to find a way such as ROTC, merit aid, working, loans in his name to make up the difference.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>IMO, your S needs to have an in-state public safety that you know that you can afford. Virtually all out of state publics reserve all or the overwhelming majority of their need-based aid for in-state students, and few publics can afford to meet 100% of the financial need of their in-state students. Keep in mind, too, that tuition for out of state students will be higher than for in-state students.</p>

<p>He might want to also look at University of Delaware, as I’ve heard very good things from posters on CC as well as from a high scoring black male student whom I know who attended there recently.</p>

<p>Your S’s list of colleges doesn’t make any sense in that they are all over North America, and don’t seem to be based on anything except his view of their social life. He also doesn’t seem to have any concern about money in that McGill, for instance, I am virtually certain doesn’t give financial aid to U.S. citizens.</p>

<p>Since he’s interested in psychology/anthropology, he’s also not apparently headed for a career that would result in lots of money (which would make it easier to pay back loans) or that would require some kind of excellent undergrad education. Psychology is one of the most popular majors at most colleges. He could get a decent education in those fields at most colleges.</p>

<p>Myself, I would not spend my money to send my kid to a college that he picked based on its partying reputation. I say this as the mom of 2 black sons who had extremely high scores, mediocre grades. My older S picked his college based on its having his favorite sports team to watch. He had never partied at all before going to college (worked a job or was home all of the time – by his own choice). His college, however, was a party school, and he feel into the partying scene and flunked out.</p>

<p>Younger S learned from his brother’s experience, and always asked about the partying scene when he checked out colleges. He wanted to make sure that there were alternatives to partying that he would enjoy. He ended up at a school with a party school rep, but excellent leadership and community service options – things that he genuinely enjoys. He has chosen to take a tough courseload, to avoid partying, and to spend his free time doing leadership/community service things. </p>

<p>That S is at a LAC, something that I think can provide a better learning atmosphere for students than the large state universities. His classes are small, the administration/faculty is very caring, and supportive. Older S wanted to go to a big school so he could be anonymous to profs (In hindsight, that should have been a big, red flag that he wasn’t ready for college!). Younger S wanted a college with small classes so he could know his profs.</p>

<p>Oh, I also learned through older S’s experience to have younger S take a productive gap year after high school when his senior year grades deep sixed due to laziness and procrastination. Younger S lived at home and served as a fulltime Americorps volunteer, which allowed him to mature, and to see that things like getting papers in on time are required in the real world, not just in high school. Should your S – who seems extremely interested in partying – experience major senioritis, consider having him take a productive gap year while living at home and paying rent (Younger S paid rent because I wanted him to get a realistic idea of how far his small Americorps stipend would take him).</p>

<p>I don’t think what your S needs necessarily are reach schools. What he needs are schools that you can afford, and that aren’t party schools. Check out “Colleges that Change Lives.” If he’s not ready to pick a college based on academic considerations, not partying, IMO, he is not ready for college.</p>

7

<p>All are good schools for somebody with his stats. He will be average for USC and a bit above for the others but not in the top 5% or anything close. Good choices where he can compete at a fair level.
There is nothing wrong with having a good social scene in college. You don’t need to be a monk to do well and enjoy the 4 years. I’d rather stay home and go to the CC than go to some dreary small school in a nothing town like Richmond Indiana or Beloit Wisconsin. Talk about driving you to drink.</p>

8

<p>McGill, with its 18-year-old legal drinking age, is something of a party school, too. It has merit aid for U.S. students (some), but I think not need-based aid. Its tuition for foreign students is much higher than its tuition for Canadian students. I think it’s still below most OOS/private U.S. college tuitions, but not that much, and with the dollar and loonie essentially at par there’s no exchange-rate discount, as there used to be.</p>

9

<p>Sure, it’s fine to have a good social scene in college, but look at the colleges that the student is picking, and look at what his D says is the S’s criteria for selecting those colleges: no evidence that academics or finances are a consideration for the student.</p>

<p>The OP’s S lives in New Jersey. There are plenty of relatively close schools that offer a nice social life and excellent academics as well as good financial aid/affordable costs.</p>

10

<p>I think those are good choices. </p>

<p>And a nice bonus with Penn State is that they have rolling admissions. He can get probably get an acceptance by Christmas if he submits his application soon.</p>

<p>If I were an African American male, I think I might be concerned about the possibility that because of my gender and ethnicity, I might get accepted into a school that’s way over my head. What good is it to get into a college if you can’t handle the work when you get there.</p>

<p>Has he considered the University of Maryland? Lots of out of staters from NJ, an ethnically diverse student body, a quick Metro ride to DC, and cheap student tickets to top-notch basketball games. The academics don’t stink, either.</p>

11

<p>Thanks for such a detailed post, its certainly enlightening, and hell I may even show him that to let him see.</p>

<p>In response:</p>

<p>Diversity was a concern for him, but I simply explained that 10-15% of black students on campus IS diverse, he seems to be looking at it like that is a small amount, but the reality is the type of schools hes looking at isn’t going to have a campus thats identical to wear he’s been raised around (new york, north jersey, very diverse). I think that U Miami is his number one choice for a variety of reasons, and if nowhere else I could say that I would have no qualms at all with him attending there. He seems to have actually thought it out (he tells me they are extremely diverse for such a high ranking university, and his stats seem good for them, I need to do more research myself though). I do expect for him to partake in the party scene, but one thing I noticed is that through High School he was always responsible enough to finish his work before partying with his friends or going on long road trips. And as strange as it is to say, its kind of funny that he’s such a nerd but has so many friends, I know back when I was his age people that would read for fun or learn other languages for no other reason than just because would not be partying with us but times change I guess.</p>

<p>He plans to go backpacking sometime this summer through Europe, and he’s always been open minded and interested in the world, so its not that i’m worried that he’s going to fall off his way or anything of the sorts, it’s just more that it seems he can aim higher and still get that same experience, that’s what I want to instill into his mind.</p>

<p>I can tell he’s been wrestling with that major choice as well, he’s always been extremely interested in people’s behavior, the way the mind works, and all. He’s literally downloaded seminars to understand certain social dynamics and all, so it seems like he’s got a real passion for that, all his friends come to him for advice, and even his teacher’s often choose him to help his friends when they don’t understand things in school. This is all based on teacher feedback, so I know he’s not actually bloating his own ego up. He’s often said that if not psychology it would definitely be something with international work, he loves to travel and he plans to learn italian or french in college with already knowing spanish and some japanese.</p>

<p>Financial aid is a big option, but if he is passionate enough I feel that we WILL work something out. I’m a firm believer in providing all the help I can because as much as a party animal he is, he’s incredibly independent and has gotten this far in his studies and life (his job, ECs) with relatively little help needed. This is part of the reason that I feel like he may be cutting himself short, but again this may just be me being caught up in the whole rankings nonsense.</p>

<p>He considered some LACs, but alot of them seemed to have things he really liked (campus, student body, etc) combined with things he really DIDN’T like (Location, social life, diversity), so he’s been looking more into LACs. </p>

<p>I’m finding that the parent forum is a very valuable resource compared to alot of the rest of the sites forums. The posts here seem to be much quicker and more thorough, but then again I can’t expect college students to right essays for the old folk.</p>

<p>Edit: He has applied to penn state as well, I forgot he payed that a few days ago, so that’s already one down I guess.</p>

<p>Edit 2: I believe I should have mentioned the fact that he really doesn’t want to be any part of New Jersey. I don’t really blame him as I think he needs to get out and see the world too (My parents exposed me to so much of the world I want him to see. I was blessed enough to even be a Costa Rican exchange student in high school).</p>

12

<p>Believe it or not, striving to get that score over 700 may be worth the trouble in the money game.</p>

<p>‘Social’ boys are a bit of a worry during freshman year but the majority find and activate their ambition by sophomore year. Some social boys turn into surprisingly good academics. </p>

<p>FWIW, one of my sons focused on the ‘social’ scene as we visited schools in his senior year. I took his ‘focus’ with a grain of salt. I assumed it was part of the bravado of being a teen male. </p>

<p>Upshot of his freshman year thus far? He found two best mates at orientation, both are sociable, sensible, engineering students. Sociable nerds? The three of them thought about joining a frat and then decided against it. He loves the social scene —as well as a couple of his classes. He joined a sports club outside the school. His outlook is a little overconfident but he’ll learn from his mistakes.</p>

13

<p>“If I were an African American male, I think I might be concerned about the possibility that because of my gender and ethnicity, I might get accepted into a school that’s way over my head. What good is it to get into a college if you can’t handle the work when you get there.”</p>

<p>Actually, the highest graduation rates for black students are at the most elite colleges, places like Amherst, Harvard. At some top LACs and national universities, the African American graduation rate is higher than that of white students’.</p>

<p>What apparently causes the black students to do so well at the elite colleges is the excellent financial aid such colleges offer. Such colleges have an overabundance of highly qualified applicants of all races, so don’t accept students who lack the academic background, motivation, smarts to be able to graduate from top colleges.</p>

<p>Since the OP indicates that finances are a consideration, I strongly suggest that he figure out how much he is willing to pay for his son’s education, and then makes sure that the collleges that the S applies to are likely to provide any extra money that will be needed for the S to afford to go there. The OP can do this by checking the colleges’ web sites and paying the $15 to fully access the U.S. news premium college on-line site, which provides detailed financial aid, admissions, etc info about thousands of colleges.</p>

14

<p>Like I said, finances can be handled if he’s really that passionate about the school, but I think that HE is keeping financial aid open in his mind as well, which may be part of the reason he chose his schools as well. He’s used to doing everything for himself, in some ways I think he feels hes going to be a burden to us if his education costs too much, which I keep trying to communicate to him.</p>

15

<p>UC SB has an African-American student population under 3%. Interestingly, they have a Department of Black Studies, which offers general ed classes that might help a student find friends.
At another UC, my black friends complained about feeling isolated, especially when it came to dating. I think it would depend on the student and how outgoing they were.</p>

16

<p>“He plans to go backpacking sometime this summer through Europe, and he’s always been open minded and interested in the world, so its not that i’m worried that he’s going to fall off his way or anything of the sorts, it’s just more that it seems he can aim higher and still get that same experience, that’s what I want to instill into his mind.”</p>

<p>If finances for college are a concern, how are you allowing him to do this? From how you have described him thus far, he seems not to have a financial care in the world.</p>

<p>If you have any concerns about the finances aspects of your S’s college, I don’t suggest that you allow him to spend the summer backpacking even if he plans to foot the bill. If he thinks that any money he earns can be used for luxury items like backpacking in Europe, he’s not likely to take college as seriously as if he knows he willl have to use his summer earnings to pay for things like his college entertainment costs. </p>

<p>I am speaking from experience . H and I had warned younger S that if he had major senioritis, we would not pay for his first year of college or pay for his college applications. He ended up taking a gap year, volunteering for Americorps (which paid a weekly stipend plus at the end of his year, gave him $4,700 to use for college), and taking out loans (we did co-sign) and getting merit aid (We don’t qualify for need-based aid) for college. S seems to be taking things very seriously, far more seriously than he took high school.</p>

<p>With older S, he got major merit aid that virtually covered his college costs. He also had saved money from working summers and during the school year. In addition, H and I promised that if we didn’t have to pay anything for college, we’d split the difference with him of what we would have paid (We had said we’d pay the cost of attending an instate college).</p>

<p>S took the money and apparently ran with it – to parties and other fun things, while not bothering to attend class. He had what he considered the perfect college year – lots of time in an academically-related EC that he enjoyed (but got no college credit for), lots of time enjoying watching his favorite sports in person, lots of partying. </p>

<p>Anyway, if your S wants to backpack through Europe, that could be something he does later as part of a college study abroad program (He could backpack before or after doing the program) or between college and going to grad school and/or before getting a permanent job.</p>

<p>Think, too, about why your S is passionate about any school. If it’s the partying options that he’s passionate about, that doesn’t bode well for his educational prospects there.</p>

17

<p>His mix of schools also looks like he is looking for a more complete undergrad experience which does not have to read party schools. It’s not a bad list; I’d be far more concerned if they were all Tier 3 schools or all the top party schools. The one problem with CC is that many are obsessed with Ivy and Ivy-like schools and feel that anything less is unacceptable and underachieving. </p>

<p>I don’t disagree that a reach or two (don’t have to be HYPS) might not be a bad option but also schools like UVA, UGA where he could use being male and an URM to his advantage and potentially qualify for good if not great merit money. With his scores, U of South Carolina (the other USC) would offer in state tuition remission plus merit money making it less expensive than in state New Jersey schools. He might look at UNC but their 18% OOS ratio could hurt him there unless he got the SATs up over 1400, though 1360 could still make him quite competitive.</p>

18

<p>Northstarmom: you offer some tremendous advice and I agree with all of it. </p>

<p>Has he considered UVA? Seems like a nice fit, and with its remote location, he could pretend he’s backpacking through Europe.</p>

19

<p>Again, as I said he HAS been working since he was 14, and backpacking for 2 or three weeks is a relatively cheap trip to foot. It might be my fault, but I’ve instilled this idea that he should get out and see the world as early and as much as possible.</p>

<p>Also, his father is still part of the equation, and he pays very little for my sons stepsisters tuition, so I do expect help from him, not quite sure how child support will work in regards to college. </p>

<p>I think I may have given the wrong impression, because sometimes i think he is TOO concerned with finances. Even if he owes a friend ten or twenty bucks he’ll stress until he gets it out of his way. I think he’s just so used to being independent that he hates the idea of having to rely on other people for help, which, I continue to tell him, is admirable, but getting help does not mean any sort of weakness.</p>

<p>My son, although he loves to party, does get tired of the lifestyle, which is why I’m not totally freaking out about him wanting to go to a party style. He might party for a good week, but then there will literally be a month or two where he will just stay with his friends. I think thats the type of campus he’s looking for.</p>

<p>As far as I know real quickly:</p>

<p>He likes Miami because its diverse, has a decent academic reputation, a good social life, and he’s been dreaming of leaving the dreary winters of Jersey. I think he’s not looking for just black students, but races of all kinds, thats how his social life here at home is. As for dating, that’s the last concern with him, as he will go for any girl he thinks looks good and he’d be interested in, Palestenian, spanish, I’ve seen a range of girls over the past few years, so I doubt that’s much of his concern. His high school is relatively small and everyone knows each other, so he sort of wants to branch out from that. </p>

<p>As for him having a ton of money to blow partying, it will be all his, because he’s working when he gets to school and he’s already aware of that.</p>

<p>That backpacking comment made me laugh.</p>

<p>Edit: There have been two things he’s made blaringly clear to me, he won’t go to Virginia, period. It’s too close to family (we have family littered throughout virginia), and he wants to start his “own path”.</p>

20

<p>Whoa folks! This is a great student! A church volunteer with a 3.9 GPA! He’s no slacker. He might well deserve a trip through Europe. The OP never asked for comment on that particular family decision.</p>

<p>Why does overseas travel bother CC posters so much? How about a little viva la difference? Having sent my sons all over the world, I heartily endorse that idea, that investment. It pays off in the classroom and in the job market–big time. The earlier the better is spot on–in my opinion.</p>

<p>Have some faith people.</p>