Coronavirus in the US

And such empty promises of vent distribution when NY is done and sending NY’s HCWs to other states when they are done with HCWs from other states. NY’s bad decisions is the reason for NY’s bad situation now.

I saw Cuomo’s tweets from yesterday:

"Andrew Cuomo

Mar 31
We are creating a Central Coordinating Team led by the State Department of Health.

It will organize upstate-to-downstate staffing needs.

It will organize patient transfers between hospitals.

It will also organize transfers to the USNS Comfort.

Mar 31
Our healthcare system is a chain. If one link breaks the whole chain breaks.

Our hospitals must function as one system.

The distinction between private and public, upstate and downstate needs to end.

New York is one state. In New York we stand together."

@Empireapple , what do you think about this? It seems like Cuomo is saying this stuff to justify overloading many of the NYS hospitals for NYC patients. How do the residents of other areas feel about this? How does the rest of NYC outside of NYC feel about Cuomo? I can’t imagine residents being happy if they or their loved ones or friends need to be hospitalized, but there is no room because the NYC folks have clogged up all of the hospitals!

I think some people don’t understand how viruses work and spread. They need a cartoon to visualize things, maybe an episode of The Magic School Bus.

Or, they can think of it like lice. Do you get your head next to someone who might have lice? No, you can love them from a distance and they will understand because they don’t want your lice either.

@4kids4us I was actually responding to the concerns about Florida not wanting to shut down because their economy is so tourist reliant! There’s obviously a push pull between not wanting financial ruin versus a public health disaster, although when a business relies on bringing in people from other states, then I imagine the local community will eventually push back, like in this article:

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/mar/31/residents-near-buffalo-river-warn-of-to/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_ArkansasOnline

IMO Cuomo is being immensely logical. He even had to be logical with his own brother who was having their mother over because she was feeling “cooped up”.

People who are fearful find it difficult to be logical and don’t respond well to logic in others. Their fear takes over and makes them want to grab everything and hide.

I find it comforting to listen to Cuomo. He’s very matter of fact and competent.

No, exactly the opposite - not enough data.

A. because he’s an idiot who cares more about how closing down businesses would affect his buddies in the business world than he cares about the people in his state

B. because he’s an idiot who cares more about doing what is most popular at that moment to increase his chances of reelection, and

C. because he’s an idiot.

Ohio, California, Illinois, and Kentucky have been decently successful at “flattening the curve” so far, by implementing strict measures in relatively early stages of the virus. Ohio has not only reduced the maximum daily projected new hospitalizations by 85%, it has also delayed the peak by a month, allowing the state to prepare for the present worst case scenario.

Unfortunately, Florida will likely follow a trajectory more similar to that of NY than than that of Ohio, California, or Illinois. NY is on its trajectory because A, density of population in NYC, B, DeBlasio is an idiot, and C, the culture in NYC is such that they don’t listen. We are seeing similar behavior in Louisiana, as many megachurches keep on holding services to large crowds.

West Virginia is likely going to be a case in which relatively few are infected, but relatively large numbers of these will be serious and death rate will be relatively high. Early social distancing, the rural nature of the state, and low travel rates overseas and out of the state reduced initial spread and will continue to slow spread, but an older and unhealthier population, and more limited resources like ICU facilities, means that the fatality rate will be high. That is likely why the Murray models predict that WV won’t outstrip it’s regular hospital beds but will likely not have enough ICU units (though they also have enough time to prepare.

Looking at the Murray models, I am skeptical of a number of them, because of their assumptions, and I am especially skeptical of the nationwide model, since the variability in the trajectories of different states mean that the their model is way too smooth and neat. I also think that they are trying to use the same model on states with different levels of data quality, and different methods of data collection.

When you have data which is all biased in the same way, you can incorporate that into your model. However, when the data is biased in different ways, using a model which takes into consideration a different bias than the actual bias in your data produces highly unreliable results. If you are using data with a large variation in biases means that the confidence limits on your results are extremely large.

That is what is happening with the Murray model. The number of beds that they calculate may be needed at the peak in the USA is anywhere between about 100,000 and 460,000, the peak is anywhere between April 10th and April 21st, and it ends anywhere between June 13th and July 23rd.

Of course, this also makes assumptions that are based on preliminary understanding of the coronavirus.

Fully agree. There was a good article in NYT describing what was going on in DeBlasio inner circle at that time. Only after a few of his advisors threatened to quit and once he finally, finally understood exponential growth, he made 180 degree turn around. Look up his comments on how he couldn’t close down Broadway because it was such an important part of the city.

As for spring break, local public schools break is the week of President’s Day.

If we are to point fingers at anything, then it’s not screening and guaranteeing people coming from abroad (Italy, anybody?) and more importantly not testing those who had symptoms and tested negative for flu, but couldn’t be tested because “all cases came from China”. Do you recall the guy who ended up in NYU hospital and whose doctors pushed for testing, but he couldn’t get one because he came from Japan and not China? How about the WA research?

Yes, the virus came from China, and yes, their numbers are way too low, but we knew about the virus. We knew it was a threat, and yet we missed the window of opportunity for testing, quarantine, and contact tracing.

Result? 83,000 cases in NY
1941 dead people in NYS :frowning:

I found this post on survival rates for COVID-19 patients who require ventilators. It sounds pretty grim.

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/mortality-rate-of-covid-19-patients-on-ventilators/

This thread is so full of how wrong everybody else is. Here’s something more positive. Gasp, and that from deep south!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/science/small-company-in-texas-town-could-have-new-solution-to-ventilator-shortage/vi-BB1212yi?ocid=mailsignout

Source: Sienna College Research Institute

@CTTC: this is exactly the right approach and the right organization to set up.

Developed countries are using it to handle patient overflow to great success. The goal is to save lives.
How will upstate feel if they’re told they had lots of empty beds and let people from their own state die? And then when it was their turn to get sick and need beds, no one used their empty beds for them?
This disease spreads quickly but not evenly. That means downstate needs beds now and upstate will need beds in ~2-3 weeks.
A task force needs to know how many ICU beds there are and dispatch people from the most affected area, a couple to each hospital, to ventilate the patients by order of infection to hospitals in the whole region (a ratio of 1:3 occupied by solidarity patients and 1:3 empty seems to be working here but probably needs to be adapted to needs); ~2 weeks when the patients are either dead or out of the ICU, gives time for ALL upstate hospitals to build extra wings for new patients.
The earliest upstate is likely to experience a surge in patients has to be known with various likely dates, if current state in ICU occupation, hospital construction, and local rate of deaths is maintained, which should be true if stay at home is followed… Modelling to 2-3 weeks can be done.
A small hospital in the Adirondacks would only take 1 or 2 patients for instance. And when there small hospital would experience a surge, five weeks from now, there’d be space for their patients downstate or in the temporary coronavirus hospital wing.

Is Cuomo the best? Are you guys watching this press conference. He’s explaining all of the curves better than anyone. And he’s speaking to people’s fears about when this is over and explaining different scenarios for time after April 30. Realistic options without any promises. He gets that people want answers but also that there isn’t anything definitive answers to be given. He’s facing this head on. I like it.

I don’t know and it’s infuriating. No idea if state and federal leaders have just given up or they truly don’t “hear” it.

Florida (again, with 3 million more people than New York) hasn’t even tested the number of cases that NY has confirmed. As of yesterday, Florida had tested 63k people. I don’t have NY’s latest testing figures but as of last week, they’d tested approximately 6x the number Florida had and since their confirmed cases as of today are 76k, it’s obvious the gap persists but unknown at what level.

The reasons we see on local news (and from prior De Santis press briefings) are lack of testing supplies (like swabs) and low capacity of labs to process tests, which take 5-7 days in many places here. Similar stories out of Louisiana, etc.

There is no way to get this under control in the US until testing is widespread in every state. We don’t have enough data to know where to sent scarce supplies and errors in allocation will cost more lives in the long run. Doesn’t do much good to stamp out the infection in one state or city if it’s raging a few states over… people and goods travel.

Testing is still a huge issue.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-01/china-concealed-extent-of-virus-outbreak-u-s-intelligence-says

Not a surprise, but we should resist the attempts by the Chinese to escape culpability for this crisis.

There’s just one thing – testing is very limited outside of the downstate area, I believe.

It’s not only cruise ships. The USS Theordore Roosevelt, an aircraft carrier, is having increasing problems with infection.

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2020/03/31/COVID-19-spread-on-USS-Roosevelt-is-ongoing-and-accelerating/3271585685217/

If you’re responding to my guess that Florida is trying to keep business open, I meant the few types of business that could possibly stay open and tourist related business isn’t one of them. Even if the tourist businesses were open, so few people are and will travel that the tourist related businesses are likely to be out of business within a short time so no need to worry about those.

But Florida does have some nontourist related businesses and it would be important to the state’s economy if those could operate to provide the state some source of taxes, income, jobs, hope given that the tourist related businesses will pretty much all go BK no matter what the state does or doesn’t do.

FYI, according to the most recent data from the Florida Department of Health, 24 out of 67 counties in Florida have at least one death (so not “almost every county”).

Additionally, there are 11 out of 67 counties where no CASES have been reported (no positive tests). Most of these are rural counties in the Big Bend area.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38ddedb9b25e429/

@4kids4us wrote:

From my post elsewhere here yesterday:

Note: the other was a guy who accidentally rammed his personal pleasure boat into a pier and was thrown, resulting in his death. This is not a time when we need to be using police, fire, and Coast Guard resources to deal with idiots who can’t follow directions. Besides, how are they planning to gas up their boats?

My kid owns a boat in Florida. My sister does too. Neither are going out on the water as tempting as it may seem.

I’m glad she is doing much better. Boston looks like a hot spot and NY is every scarier. :frowning:

That’s way earlier than the first official death in Massachusetts from what I understand.

‘By The AP
updated on March 20, 2020
The Massachusetts Department of Public Health said Friday a man in his 80s from Suffolk County is the first person in Massachusetts to die from the illness caused by the coronavirus.’

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/03/20/massachusetts-first-coronavirus-death

That means what I had suspected is true. There was community spread around various parts of the country well before there were any official cases or deaths. There are deaths that happened that are not part of the official count. I do wonder if my ‘flu’ that I had, which started in the last day of Feb was this virus or the flu. I bet there was spread around here even then or before.

And regarding the story about the veterans, that’s nuts!! How could that have happened?