Coronavirus May 2020 - Observations, information, discussion

Parent Cafe
2721

There is a standard of care that is developing and businesses (including salons) that are not meeting this- i.e. not having the stylists wear masks- could be facing more liability if someone should be able to prove he or she got the virus at that particular place. There are other hurdles, of course, but even where a particular safety measure is not mandated, it is likely that the new standard of care/safety would make it a best practice.

If anyone needs proof that the World of CC is not all that representative of the common masses, just read the comments under some of the announcements by popular performers like Kenny Chesney about tour cancellation. People are furious at the cancellation- they would crowd into a stadium or arena even during all this.

2722

On the other hand, anecdotal observations, specific events, or the more vocal people may not be that representative either.

It would be helpful if https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/alabama had some more recent mobility information than May 4.

2723

A good friend of mine put it this way 'at our age - do we want to put our lives on hold for a year or more in hopes there is a vaccine?". BTW - ‘our age’ is 60-65.

Good question. We discussed the differences between reasonable behavior - seeing our kids, coffee with friends at the park, seeing that part of the family which keeps their own reasonable safety protocols, shopping once a week instead of hoarding supplies for 14+ days at at time, etc.

And yes, this is absolutely a class based discussion.

There are some who believe everyone should hunker down at home, not leave, and simply hang out until…well…not sure…it’s never stated. Those folks tend to have nice homes, secure incomes, non-abusive family members, and other luxuries. They have the ability to sit in a comfortable environment, look out at their lovely surroundings, drink there Instacart delivered beverage of choice, occasionally converse with a neighbor from 30+ feet away, all the while telling the barber, who opened shop so that he could support his own family, that he deserves to die.

We are a clan based, tribal species. Although we’ve implemented societies which try to modify these innate tendencies, those behaviors return when frightened.

When this first all came down we thought our personal financial lives would head to ruin quickly. Since then, it appears this is not the case. It appears there might actually be an up side. Guess what…my internal narrative about SIP and who has to do what changed. It changed from - heck no, things can’t be shut down to hmmmm…I can do this for a while.’

Full disclosure …by saying I can do this for a while I mean…sit by our duck pond (turn on the water fall which we’ve had off for the season), watch the chickens and ducks and read a book. Or, go to the back patio read on the swing, or go to the front patio and watch the deer, rabbits and coyotes across the street. If I’m lucky the volunteers who take care of rescue horses might walk one of their charges past my lower yard - I’ll converse from 6+ feet away and maybe sneak a bit closer to pet Blue - the 33 year old mare. Maybe I’ll wander down to the garden and see what the tomatoes are doing. Of course there’s always walking the dog on a number of hidden and almost private paths. I can go see my pregnant daughter. She and H are also income secure and live in a beautiful place. DS lives with us. He’s WFH with a healthy salary. With two full standup freezers I do need to stress about which dead animal to thaw in time for a nice BBQ. Maybe a nice Zoom bookclub/wine drinkers meeting. I enjoy the open freeways, no traffic to battle. If for no other reason I would like ya’ll stay home so I can go where I want to go in record time. H has converted his shop into a home theater. There’s 2500+ movies on file. Evenings are nice. Maybe take a hot tub before bed…Yup, life is great.

But I manage to hold on to my own humanity (and sight of the real world) and realize THIS IS NOT THE NORM. It might be SOP for this board and its’ members, but the 30M unemployed might have a different POV. I don’t think anyone who is trying to survive this financially deserves to die. I don’t think their customers deserve to die. I DO think these folks - without Instacart accounts, duck ponds, neighbors 30+ feet away, full freezers and full bank accounts, and sustainably grown, humanly harvested, brewed with filter water in $1000 espresso makers cups of coffee… have a right to survival. And I don’t mean just to remain breathing.

But …that’s just me.

2724

My kids wouldn’t let me visit, and I’m hearing the same from neighbors. Lots of the millennials are more cautious about this than their parents. Mine are both employed, working from home, and living alone. Seeing few people in person except for retail transactions, and very lonely. But they believe it is their duty to stay that way as long as they can to protect others.

Several of my neighbors work in health care, and have been seeing patients, although fewer of them, and getting pay cuts and fearing layoffs. One thought she might get called into hospital duty, but it never got that bad here, and we all hope it doesn’t. One neighbor has all 4 household members unemployed because of this - both parents and 2 millennial kids that are back home for a while. Several have both parents working from home with several kids home all day as well. Our city depends on sales tax revenue to pay the police and the park employees. There isn’t much sales tax revenue.

We need to start down the path back, and we need to keep our eyes wide open so we can do it safely and slow down if needed.

2725

@dietz199 You wrote the post I was about to write. I, too, could be extremely comfortable never leaving my yard (or neighborhood for exercise). I have a terrific job with a company which is managing to thrive during this, I have a big space in which to live and work, and a husband who likes to do the grocery shopping. I get to hang out with my dogs and cats and wave at my neighbors (I haven’t measured how far away they are standing).

I, too, have enough awareness of how most people live and work to know that a continued economic shutdown is not sustainable or wise. I also know how mental health is affected by all this. There are some things that are relatively low risk. Yes- virus particles could be lingering near me somewhere just waiting to jump in my mouth, nose or eyes. But probably not.

My lovely nail shop owner doesn’t have the resources that the company which employs me has. He is finally going to reopen, but I suspect he struggled to figure out where to get plexiglass shields and enough sanitation products. His supply chain is not the same as that of a large company. When he’s closed, there is no income. Period.

I’m taking some risks. I hope I and my loved ones stay healthy. If I don’t, please don’t invite EmilyBee to my funeral to say “I told you so” and “she deserved it.”

2726

I don’t wish anyone get sick, regardless of what they are doing. I find that mean spirited. But that’s my opinion. I’m doing what I feel is the right thing to do…and hoping that’s enough. For those who have a different POV, I don’t wish they get sick.

2727

I agree with you @dietz199

My complaints are:

  1. My tennis club is only going to allow singles play, not play with my usual doubles teams.
  2. It may be hard to find parking to walk on the beach
  3. My plans for another trip to Europe are on hold.

They seem pretty foolish by comparison to what those who aren’t so fortunate are suffering.

To criticize those who have to go to food banks for the first time in their lives or who have real valid fears of losing their homes, having their credit ruined or losing their businesses is the height of elitism. I have no right to criticize those who are protesting that they want to be able to open their shops and salons again. If I don’t feel safe, I can stay home. Those who want to go to those businesses can do so. For me to criticize them is unfeeling. I might as well say ‘let them eat cake’.

My valid and likely universal concerns are that the government is telling me I cannot visit family; my pregnant daughter, my son, my dad, my sister. Days and months are ticking by that can never be recovered.

2728

I hope to live as long as my mom - who will be 91 next month and is enjoying life to the fullest, well until now because of the pandemic. But she is hunkering down because she wants to keep living, see her last grandchild get married, her great grandchild grow up and hopefully live until she has a few more. she is still keeping herself busy - just inside her home.

As for me at only 62, which in my world is young. i want to see my son get married and hopefully have kids I can spoil. I want to enjoy a life with my husband after he retires. Hopefully be able to travel more once he gets off the treadmill.

Sounds to me like a lot of people don’t care about the other people in their lives. I wonder how much their kids/grandkids care about them, if that is their attitude. Probably not much.

2729

Well, they say crisis brings out the best and worst in people, as the above post proves.

There are young Hispanic children begging on a highway near me today. I expect their parents do not and can not get any money, but I am sure some posters wish them ill for being out.

2730

My state has reopened but there are also county/city rules to follow. I’m out of quarantine but will still follow the mask/social distancing rules. I have been to a few stores and they are a lot more organized than the grocery stores with staying 6’ apart and very little contact.

I also went to a bank yesterday and the tellers have a plexiglass shield plus wear a mask, a face shield and gloves. There were no cookies or coffee. No lollipops!

Today I’m picking up some little girls I mentor and taking them to their sister’s birthday. party. There will be 10 people there (the legal limit) and we will be outside but I doubt social distancing will take place all the time since the kids are 4, 5, 8 and 11. This will be the first time the sisters have seen each other since March 9. It really is the ‘present’ for them to get to be together.

2731

Our neighborhood tennis courts are open, and I played doubles for the first time this morning since March.

Restaurants and bars have opened up in my state. My H and I have dinner reservations for next week.

The salons have opened. I was hoping to get in next week for a haircut, but the salon is booked solid and I can’t get in until the middle of June.

After tennis, I played cards with my three kids who are all back home at the moment. We are heading out to see my parents later today. We haven’t seen them since March. We are meeting outside at the local park.

For the record, I really care about the people in my life, and my kids and parents really care about me, too.

2732

Regarding the GE Healthcare link a few pages back, there’s a huge mistake in the numbers in the map for US counties. (Westchester county correct for confirmed cases, NYC 22K listed instead of 190K actual.)

I am seeing more and more push back. A contractor I know is back to putting blatantly false memes of facebook. (The ones comparing Covid deaths with other diseases - only Covid deaths are 1/10th of current numbers and the year is less than half over.) I called him on it, he tells me he doesn’t know who to believe. Argh.

Meanwhile my neighbor already called her hairdresser in and yesterday they had other neighbors out on their deck, plus various extra boyfriends and hangers-on. One of the neighbors wore a mask for about ten minutes then pushed it up on top of his head, and another guy stayed behind a fence in the pool area and I think was six feet away from everyone else, but pretty soon no one had a mask on. One of the visitors is a doctor and really should know better. His wife came and dragged him away after about half an hour. (There are times I wish I knew less about what my neighbors are up to!)

2733

@MomofJandL - “We need to start down the path back, and we need to keep our eyes wide open so we can do it safely and slow down if needed.”

This ^

2734

@emilybee that is not fair. I care about my 80 yo mom who lives in FL and my kids care about us. We make decisions as a family weighing the risks(us an our kids). My mom went to finally get her hair done. I was not going to be able to stop her. If for some reason she was to pass from this, what else could I have done, and I would not blame her or call her selfish or not caring. She just wants to live a little. I sent her an N95 mask to keep her as safe as possible. Our kids care about us too and will follow whatever guidelines we decide., If we were to get this , my DH is 60 and I am 55. Yes, it could go either way for us. Before this hit we took risks in our every day lives. Some in our control . We had no intention of bubble wrapping ourselves.

Finally my Dad died about 1 1/2 years ago at 91. About a year earlier hurricane Irma was heading to florida. No matter what we told him he refused to evacuation . His attitude was “I survived WW2, I lived a full life, I am not uprooting myself for a hurricane”. We sent my husband down to help my mom. It was a constant battle to make him “move from the window” When he did die a year later, he went fast. Up until the end, he continued to do what he wanted. If he was alive today, there is no way he would have agreed to SIP. It would have been a daily battle.

I am glad that you can live in your bubble wrap world for the next year or two. That you have the income and ability to do so and that let the rest of us die if we leave our homes. And not everyone can stay home. I understand that you want to protect yourself and your family this way, but dont judge the rest of us, and those who have no choice. The person delivering all your food and other essentials takes that risk. BUT dont say that we dont care about each other. I could walk across the street and a crazy driver could also hit me. If I had not left my house then the driver would never have had the chance. I watch the numbers in my area, I wear my mask , and practice SD as much as possible. Oh and what happens if your 91 year old mom develops a health issue non related to Covid-19 and needs outside health care.

2735

How do you Social distance in your car?

2736

Yes, and the lower SES classes will suffer more both from the virus itself and the economic effects. But their voices (on any side of the argument) are not as loud and less likely to be heard, compared to the voices of the upper SES speakers (on any side of the argument).

And that is reflected in how nasty and mean-spirited everything has become, because most Americans have defined their clans and tribes in such a way that other Americans are the enemy, rather than a friendly opposition.

2737

I admit that I don’t read every post here all that carefully, but I am surprised by the several recent posts claiming that “us” comfortable CC people do not care about others. And this is somehow related to our differing opinions on reopening our states? What???

I am in the group that advocates for a slow, careful reopening, but not because I do not care about those less fortunate than me. It is because I feel carelessly reopening will endanger even more lives, particularly those who are not as fortunate.

I am guessing that many people here who feel as I do are continuing to pay their housecleaners, stylists, dog walkers, and other service people in their life, and also leaving very large tips., etc… We do this precisely because we don’t want them to choose between endangering their lives and making an income. I am hopeful that ALL of us fortunate people on CC have been doing the same. I only wish that our government made it easier for everyone to stay safe.

2738

I’m not sure why some people keep saying that we are in an economic shutdown. Yes, some businesses are not open but a good majority are and people are working. The real problem is that even if those small businesses are open, few people will be visiting them anyways until this virus is very under-control.

There is a disconnect between opening up a yoga studio and thinking it will be back at full capacity. Highly unlikely, in the near term.

Some businesses will never recover from this pandemic no matter what the government does or does not do, unfortunately.

2739

I mentioned in a previous post that I was fighting the urge to hire a hairdresser under the table. However, I really didn’t know where to find one.

Here I am, just a few days later with three options, one whose name was given to me by a nurse, no less. You go into her shop alone, masked, and through the back door (salon is in a strip mall). You pay cash. Another is a former hairdresser who moved on career-wise, but still does hair informally for family and friends. She has no potential loss of license to be worried about. I am still holding out hope my regular stylist will be open in a week or so, so I haven’t done anything… yet.

It made me think, though…

  1. It was much, much easier than I expected to find people who would do this.
  2. The government would be better off letting these people open responsibly, both because they would be able to set/monitor safety and protection rules and standards, AND because these people would go back to paying taxes on their income.
2740

I do not hate LACs, “our” or anyone else’s. I do hate our healthcare system. And while I don’t hate “our people,” I do find a huge percentage of them short of intelligence.

Carry on.