Coronavirus May 2020 - Observations, information, discussion

Parent Cafe
4161

Sigh. We (DH and I ) are part of that higher risk population. We are at risk of suffering greatly from COViD19 , dying even. This has been a honeymoon period for us in that all of these precautions have been enacted.

So what to do when the risk is still right there for us? Until a good vaccine becomes available , or we get exposed with minimal effects and get an immunity of sorts , antibodies, we are going to be at risk in getting this virus. Should we continue to socially distance, wear masks , limit contact? Where should we draw lines? All things we are having to decide as things are loosened , even as we have made no discernible headway in dealing with this risk

4162

So you’re visualizing these kids never coming home?

4163

Sorry, I read a lot in today’s U-T about restaurants. It was in this article: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/health/story/2020-05-22/a-users-guide-to-navigating-life-in-phase-2-of-san-diegos-reopening

“Some restaurants owners have expressed such deep concerns about customers causing disruptions over the face covering rule that they’re sticking with takeout for now to see if these problems occur at other locations.”

4164

People whack each other in this country all the time. Masks are just one more reason.

4165

Yes. You socially distance. You wear masks. You limit contact. You hope for a vaccine. And in the meantime, vote for leaders whose COVID response you respect, vote against those who you feel have failed you/the state/the country. That’s all we CAN do.

4166

We were in San Diego for the day to help our oldest D move out of her apartment because her lease was up and she’s staying with us until late summer when she’ll leave for another job OOS. In La Jolla, 90% of the people we saw were wearing masks.

When DH and I drove 15 min. inland to another community to pick up the moving truck, 90% of the people we encountered were maskless.

In SD North County, there was a farm that was packed with people picking strawberries. More people were not wearing masks.

San Diego is my hometown and I usually like to hangout as long as I can but yesterday we got out as fast as we could.

4167

The point is that a retailer isn’t going to put the employees at risk by trying to be the police.

4168

@cptofthehouse , I wish I knew the “right” answer to your questions about what we should do until a safe and effective vaccine is available.

One in-law couldn’t wait to get out of the house as soon as things began to open up. In the first week I heard about a hair appointment, a chiropractor visit, multiple trips to grocery/liquor/home stores and plans for attending a pool party. When I asked about the risk, I was informed that sunshine would kill any virus and the pool chlorine would take care of anything that survived the sun. Fortunately we weren’t on a video chat so my eye roll wasn’t noticed.

4169

Police? No. And they certainly shouldn’t. But we accept the realities of death by gun violence in this country, and retailers do too. Some retailers routinely see violence, Walmart comes to mind. It happened before Covid, and will happen during/post, too.

4170

You may want to apply newer knowledge about how length of proximity and indoors versus outdoors matters in terms of the risk of exposure. For example, eating in an indoor restaurant where you could be exposed for an hour to contagious exhalations from two tables over recirculating in the enclosed room would be more of a risk than passing by someone for a few seconds while walking around the neighborhood or in a park.

As far as masks go, most protect others from the wearer’s exhalations more than they protect the wearer. So you may want to favor (for example) grocery stores where other customers and employees generally wear masks and avoid those where mask wearing is less common. Of course, wearing masks yourselves when going to grocery stores or other situations where entering a higher risk environment is unavoidable is being nice to others there.

4171

I agree. That was as much a protest as it was a party, though. Not the same vocal crowd that marches in capitals/major cities bearing arms, but a protest nonetheless. You don’t show up to a gathering like that in May 2020 and expect to stay out of the evening news.

4172

The WHO waited until March 11th to declare it a pandemic. They were very late in admitting this was going to be a serious problem.

4173

The Who was posting all the time from January about the virus and ringing loud warning bells that the window of opportunity to contain the virus was rapidly closing. When asked why they had not used the word pandemic they explained that the situation was extremely serious and everyone in the work should be working together to contain it. They warned countries over and over to take action, take more action, and take specific actions. They also enabled countries to use test kits much earlier than some chose to do.

4174

Restaurants in my county can now open with restrictions. Last night we went to pick up Mexican food and the restaurant was not serving inside but had set up some tables along the curb for people to eat their to go orders. Other restaurants are serving both inside and out. We aren’t ready to dine in yet.
In my area people are pretty willing to wear masks when they are in stores, picking up foods. I’ve also noticed most people walking on the street seem to have masks on. We drove by a popular beach and the lot was full and I didn’t see any masks. My H walked on a less popular beach this morning and while people distanced he didn’t see masks not did he wear one. He is back playing tennis, no masks. It appears some barbers are back working illegally as one of the guys had to leave tennis early to go get a haircut.
My father in law wants to have lunch with my H this week at a restaurant when he comes into town for a Dr appointment. My H is going to suggest that they meet at my house and my H will pick up lunch and they can eat it outside. My in laws are starting to go out more.

4175

I disagree that WHO was ringing the alarm bells that average citizens would have heard in January. From their own website timeline -

Jan 22 - statement that there’s evidence of human to human transmission but more information is needed.

Jan 22-23 -The WHO Director- General convened an Emergency Committeeto assess whether the outbreak constituted a public health emergency of international concern. The independent members from around the world could not reach a consensus based on the evidence available at the time. They asked to be reconvened within 10 days after receiving more information.

It wasn’t until Jan 30 that the EC met again and concluded this was a public health emergency of international concern.

And not until Feb 16-20 that the WHO sent a team to China to do any observation or research.

4176

They absolutely were saying it is a very serious situation that needed cooperation of the whole world to contain, that the window of opportunity to contain it was closing rapidly. They gave detailed lists of things everyone should do to contain it. Whether it was being called an emergency or pandemic, it was clear to me that the WHO took things very seriously.

China refused the WHO entry for some time so their lack of going to China does not indicate the urgency the WHO felt and displayed about the virus.

I read their website and tweets and etc almost daily. If you didn’t do that, then you can find articles looking back taking things that happened out of context at the time and not see they were certainly very concerned and warning the US and the world over and over.

4177

if the idea is that there was ever a time the WHO was not taking the virus extremely seriously, I disagree with that. It took the virus increasingly more seriously but always took it very seriously as something potentially very dangerous and then something absolutely very dangerous.

4178

Some of the WHO recommendations were positively harmful. From 29 February:

The one intervention the President could have done, which would have made a real difference, would have been to shut down all international air travel.

4179

‘On Jan. 12, Chinese scientists published the genome of the virus, and the W.H.O. asked a team in Berlin to use that information to develop a diagnostic test. Just four days later, they produced a test and the W.H.O. posted online a blueprint that any laboratory around the world could use to duplicate it.’

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/health/WHO-Trump-coronavirus.html

How the WHO Responded Video
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/27-04-2020-who-timeline—covid-19

Feb 2018 - a pandemic can start in any country at any time and kill millions of people because we are not prepared because we are still vulnerable.

Dec 19 - memo about pneumonia cluster in Wuhan, China

Jan 1, 2020 - activated emergency management team

Jan 4 - tweeted that China had reported a cluster of pneumonia cases which was under investigation.

Jan 10 - comprehensive guidance issued on their website.

Jan 14 - epidediologal investigations are underway, but it is certainly possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission.

Jan 14 WHO could spread warns hospitals worldwide

Jan 20 warned human to human transmission

Jan 30 declared a public health emergency of international concern over the global outbreak. - they also warned about the window of opportunity to control it.

Feb 5 Again warned about investing in control to prevent the virus from spreading. “it’s time to act.”

feb 10 - warned of spark that could become a bigger fire.

Feb 11 - if the world doesn’t want to consider this virus as public enemy number one I don’t think we will learn from our lessons.

Feb 22 - “our window of opportunity is narrowing and that’s why we called the international community to act”

Feb 24 - “it is time for international countries to act. It is time to do everything you would do in preparing for a pandemic.”

March 2 - "All countries can be looking for cases right now. All countries can be aggressively finding those first cases and following those first contacts over time.

March 3 - “Shortages of leaving doctors and nurses and front line workers dangerously ill-equipped to care for Covid 19 patients.”

March 5 - “this is not a drill. This is not the time to give up. This is a time for pulling out all stops.”

March 11 - “We are deeply concerned, both by the alarming levels of spread and severity and by the alarming levels of inaction. We have therefore made the alarming assessment that Covid 19 can be characterized as a pandemic.”

March 13 - “not testing alone, not contact tracing alone, not quarnatining alone, not social distancing alone. Do it all.”

March 16 - "You cannot fight a fire blindfolded and we cannot stop this pandemic if we don’t know who is infected. We have a simple message for all countries. Test, test, test.

April 1 - “We must get back to be able to control this virus, live with this virus, develop the vaccines that we need to finally eradicate this virus.”

April 8 - "Please work across party lines. Across ideology. Across beliefs. Across any differences. That’s how we can defeat this virus.

These are the things I was seeing and reading from the WHO. I took all they were saying and doing to indicate the situation was very serious.

4180

roethlisburger
‘The one intervention the President could have done, which would have made a real difference, would have been to shut down all international air travel.’

Overall it doesn’t appear that the president was taking cues from the WHO on what to do most of the time. I also do not think that the USA needed the WHO to tell them to take this seriously. we have the CDC, NIH and more here. We usually work with the WHO, but they are no in charge of the USA’s response as I understand things.

It would have been good for our response to have included awareness of the spread of the virus beyond Wuhan at first and later, beyond China, to other affected countries as the virus spread and that did not happen for a long time.