Coronavirus May 2020 - Observations, information, discussion

Note that this wouldn’t apply to Native American reservations or going to or from Canada but otherwise there is a constitutional right to travel. The constitutional “right to travel” embraces at least three different components: (1) it protects the right of a citizen of one state to enter and to leave another state; (2) it protects the right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than an unfriendly alien when temporarily present in the second state; and (3) for those travelers who elect to become permanent residents, it protects the right to be treated like other citizens of that state

Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489, 119 S.Ct. 1518 (U.S.Cal.,1999)

Actually, before there were any governmental orders, dine-in restaurant patronage was crashing. In the last week before there were governmental orders for restaurants to do take-out only, I was seeing that restaurants that normally had good dine-in business were close to empty.

A survey not that long ago (see http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/22778224/#Comment_22778224 ) found high levels of concern about getting the virus or family members getting the virus. There was also a high level of concern about financial hardships. All of these concerns will reduce restaurant patronage.

I’m agreeing with the 70% of restaurants going down, whether a state closes or stays open. Restaurants run on the thinnest of margins. They need to have some times when they are full.

Some people want to go out to restaurants, but a lot of people right now just don’t, no matter what their governor says. If half of your previous customers are staying home, you can’t keep your restaurant going.

As a part of gradual re-opening, restaurants may be allowed to keep operating, but at 50% capacity. Very few restaurant owners will re-open under those circumstances. They can’t make money.

Food establishments that do takeout will soar, though. Many people don’t want to cook. They just are not interested in taking the risk of sitting for an hour near other people, when they could eat safely at home.

Several different organizations in our state have teamed up to create take out food boxes once/week. It includes chef-prepares food, some fresh locally grown produce, and fresh eggs. You prepay via credit card and pick up at designated location or prepay $15 delivery charge and it’s delivered to you in specified time window and you have to be present to receive.

I just ordered so will pick up for the 1st time this Thursday. The items are enough for a small family to have several meals—several main courses, some carbs, some produce.

Our farmers are teaming with our community foundation and foodbank to give unemployed and needy fresh food at several food distribution events. People need to come in cars with hatchback or trunk open, fill out brief questionnaire and then receive food. Turnout has been very high >4000 per event) and about 50 pounds of food are in each box distributed, enough for a family for 1-2 weeks.

@“Cardinal Fang” thank you and you are welcome. I know the info was narrow but when I came across it it seemed like a decent data point.

Stay safe!

Even if allowed to fully open, they may not even get to 50% of previous dine-in levels.

Those doing lots of take-out may do fine, but those in areas where their customers are mostly from workplaces that are closed or doing remote work may not get as much business until those workplaces return to previous working in the workplace.

I know that restaurants are going to be failing right and left. Two of my favorites, that I’ve been eating at for decades, are gone already. Hardworking small business owners are going to be losing their livelihoods through no fault of their own, and this is a terrible time for restaurant owners, as well as their employees.

It’ll be interesting to see what emerges from the ashes. People want to eat. We like food. There are going to be a lot of new businesses springing up as states begin to open up, businesses that are planned for the reality of now… Maybe beautifully plated takeout? Fresh almost-ready food, that just needs a few more actions to complete the preparation? High-end restaurants with only fully separated booths/rooms? There are business opportunities here.

@chalkpastel, Cardinalfang and others

I get that something about my copy/paste is disturbing you all. It is a technical glitch. I have a very old laptop which also has sticky keys (although I don’t believe the keys have anything to do with this problem).

Not all of the lines, graphics, nuances show up on my screen. Something is happening for your view that isn’t happening on my end. Cleary there is spacing of some sort that is going on. It’s not happening in my view.

I was recently trying to fill out a form and none of the fields were present so I finally went to my son’s laptop and discovered what was missing. This is when I first realize the failure of my device. I apologize that this is clearly bothering some but I don’t intend to buy a new laptop anytime soon. I’ll do the best I can with what I have.

It’s not that I need clear(er) directions, it’s that I have a technical problem. Thanks for your understanding.

I posted earlier…You can get antibody testing around NYC at urgent cares. You can just walk in to get tested and there is no cost. D1 and I did it at CityMD. D1 and her H got their results back yesterday. Both of them tested negative. I assume I will get mine result back today. The doctor who spoke with me said 25% of results have come back positive. He said the test they are doing is in the high 90% accurate.

Our contact in Beirut, a professor at AUB who was my husband’s office mate in grad school, left me a five-minute voicemail on WhatsApp after I wrote him that our son is planning on returning to Beirut on June 12. He was literally laughing - “Why in the world would he want to do that?” (Well, it’s because of his girlfriend…) Then the professor got serious and said he thinks highly of our son and wants the best for him, and thinks he should NOT go. He said Lebanon has controlled the virus pretty well, but the pandemic has given the government the opportunity to shut down all the protests, and once things start opening up, everyone is afraid the violence is really going to escalate again. Our son will NOT listen to us, so I just forwarded the voicemail to him and haven’t said a word. He already knows how we feel. :frowning:

I foresee more food trucks, both in urban and suburban locations.

Restaurants will become better at the takeout offerings (and possibly downsize their space)…we are already seeing this with restaurants selling ‘groceries’ like Potbelly and Panera where you can buy not only ready made food, but a pound of turkey, or a pint of blueberries, etc., and those selling family combo meals…Panera again, Chick-Fil-A, Olive Garden, and many more.

In a related matter, I signed up for a CSA full share for June thru October…I will have to go to the store less, and am supporting a downstate farm.

I’ve never been in the camp of “its going to go away when the weather gets warmer,” but it will be interesting to see what transpires now that most of us, no matter where we live in the US, will be experiencing warm weather and reopening at the same time in many states.

“Everybody hopes for seasonality” when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic, Peter Juni of the University of Toronto acknowledged. Maybe, just maybe, the summer will diminish the spread of Covid-19.
But a new study, by Dr. Juni, an epidemiologist, and his colleagues in Canada and Switzerland, offers very little encouragement for warm-weather worshipers. In countries around the world, his research found, variations in heat and humidity had little to no effect on the spread of the pandemic. Differences in how the disease spread were instead strongly associated with public health measures like social distancing and school closures.
Several other studies have found or projected modest effects of warmer climates or the increase of sunlight in diminishing the spread of the coronavirus, but all have emphasized the need for public health interventions.
One reason is that most of the world’s population has no immunity to the virus. “This means the virus doesn’t need favorable conditions” to spread, Dr. Juni said.

“Then they followed those countries and how cases of Covid-19 grew during the subsequent period of March 21 to March 27, after a 14-day incubation period for infections during the earlier period to cause disease.
The countries varied from Canada to the tropics, but no effect for temperature was found. Humidity had a very weak connection to diminished spread, they found. But by far the most important in associations with a diminished spread of the disease were school closings, social distancing and restrictions on large gatherings.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/08/health/virus-summer-pandemic.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

@Mwfan1921 , several weeks ago, I signed up for a CSA for this year. The farm is in western Wisconsin, about 90 miles from where I live; it has been around a long time and has a robust CSA program. I picked up my first weekly share yesterday at a house a mile or so from mine. Contents included parsnips, spinach, asparagus, ramps, nettles (!), green onions, and sunchokes. I feel good supporting a farm and tying part of my fortune to it, so to speak.

BTW, I realize I am privileged in being able to be a CSA member, because of where I live and because I have enough money to prepay $1,000 and to take the risk of losing that money.

My brother around SFO area posted a picture on FB playing golf with some friends, and there was a picture with him and 2 other friends together without masks. It was a bit upsetting to see.

Interesting article from Israel and why their death rate was so low. Basically they were able to mostly protect their elderly. So in looking at the numbers from Israel its probably more indicative of a general population death rate if you remove those 80 and above. Also they were really good at testing. 50K test per million and 28 deaths per million . not as great as S Korea, but also not bad total cases is at 16K Death/cases is .015. (US is .06). Not saying death/cases is the correct number to look at , versus death per MM population.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/qa-how-did-israel-keep-its-death-toll-so-low-and-does-it-now-risk-a-new-spike/

DH is going to finally start taking the Vitamin D that he bought last year at his doctor’s recommendation, I’ve been taking it for a while.

Given the recent uptick in articles promoting Vitamin D for reducing the severity of a COVID-19 infection, has anyone noticed shortages? We are well stocked so I haven’t thought to look.

How close together were they?

Being outside is probably a lot less risky than being in an enclosed space.

Maybe they should follow Florida. Not sure what, except weather and the outdoor lifestyle, can explain the low rates of spread there.

Warmer weather could just mean that people spend more time outside rather than in enclosed spaces. That could lower the risk of spreading airborne virus.

Also, if vitamin D is relevant, going out in sunlight may reduce deficiency.

But whether and how much those effects occur may be hard to measure when mixed together with various changes in policy and medical developments.

The WSJ had an interesting article with theories on why Florida had a lower rate of infection than predicted. https://www.wsj.com/articles/smart-or-lucky-how-florida-dodged-the-worst-of-coronavirus-11588531865?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=2

The article lists a few reasons:

Mr. DeSantis restricted visitation to nursing homes but he left early lockdown decisions to local authorities. Mayors in some hard-hit large communities shut down faster and more aggressively than the state, gaining valuable time.

Walt Disney World closed two weeks before the statewide order. Spring breakers, who packed Florida beaches and bars until mid-March, went back home. Some scientists point to Florida’s low population density, while others to its subtropical climate to explain fewer infections.

A key factor, many say, is a change in the behavior of Floridians. Though the governor didn’t impose a statewide stay-at-home order until April 3, people began hunkering down en masse in mid-March, according to firms that analyze anonymous cellphone data.

[As of last Saturday] Florida had 6 deaths per 100,000 people as of Saturday, compared with 42 in Louisiana, 56 in Massachusetts and 97 in New York, according to states’ data.

California had 5 deaths per 100,000 people and Texas had 3.

The seven-day average of new cases in Florida—concentrated mostly in the populous South Florida counties of Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach—generally has been declining in the past few weeks and the seven-day average of new deaths has plateaued.

As of Friday, there were 1,384 residents of long-term care facilities in the state with Covid-19, or 0.9% of the total resident population. There were 388 deaths of long-term care residents.

People aged 65 and over make up 20.5% of Florida’s population, the second-highest proportion of any state in the U.S., after Maine.

Mr. DeSantis resisted recommendations by public-health experts to issue a statewide stay-at-home order or close the beaches, which were starting to fill with spring-break revelers. Instead, he chose to take a targeted approach aimed at the hardest-hit counties and to defer to local officials on implementing restrictions. A large state like Florida, where many counties were far less affected by the outbreak and would suffer economic pain from a lockdown, doesn’t lend itself to a uniform strategy, he said in news conferences in March.

[The article then describes how individual cities and counties made decisions to close earlier or later based on what they were seeing in their cities. It also describes how individuals decided to start staying at home even without official mandates. ]

Florida benefited from other advantages that made social distancing easier, public-health experts say. Apart from a handful of urban cores, Florida counties in general are less densely populated than those in hard-hit parts of the Northeast and Midwest. The landscape is replete with neatly spaced housing tracts. Residents rely mainly on cars to get around and public-transit options are limited.

Though work is still preliminary, several studies suggest that the coronavirus doesn’t spread as easily in balmy weather. On April 23, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security issued early research findings indicating that increased temperatures may help kill the virus and reduce transmission.