I am also intrigued by the difference between Ohio and Florida. I looked up two indicators: poverty and obesity. The two states are virtually the same for each.
COVID hit us at a bad time in that we had bought a house and were in a significant re-model while still living in our current home. Neither has debt, but it’s possible we will have trouble selling our house to move in to the new one. We are considering putting both on the market when the new house is finished and seeing if either sells, then living in the one that doesn’t. I’m not optimistic about not taking a big loss on the new home due to the price point and timing. But both are in a price point most likely to have trouble selling.
The only thing that may help us that would be COVID influenced is that both houses have amazing potential for work at home. In our current home, we have a very large space for DH’s business that has an attached TV room, bathroom, and small kitchenette. We also have a “library” downstairs with small attached desk/builtins room that could be another full office.
Same for the new house-we were remodeling it to give us this same kind of space. The second office space is a lot smaller, but could still accommodate modest WFH needs or a secretary.
We shall see if this setup sets our house apart from others on the market. Hopefully one of them will sell. If not, we will likely have to lease one of them. Not ideal, but big picture, I know we are very fortunate and don’t have a ton of things to complain about. There are many in dire straits through absolutely no fault of their own.
Around April 11th Florida has 419 deaths. That didn’t include 50 non resident deaths.
Sorry, it was 40 non resident deaths.
But remember comments on this thread are not necessarily the same as the population at large. 68% feel places are opening up too quickly. Only 31% feel it isn’t quick enough. Can businesses survive on those 31% + perhaps a smidgen of the others?
If we had the virus under control first, more folks would venture out.
If this experiment goes well and numbers don’t increase, more will venture out, but if it goes poorly, then the economy will really take a hit. It’s quite the gamble.
Currently Sweden is at 314 deaths per million compared to lock down neighboring latitude peers Finland (47/1m) and Norway (40/1m). Sweden’s deaths are approx 7x their neighbors. Are folks in the US ready to see 7x the deaths we have now if summer or Vit D or treatments aren’t sufficient to avoid them?
According to BBC, even though Sweden is not locked down many are social distancing and going out less on their own - probably similar to what we’d see here with no imposed lock downs. Not everyone is willing to gamble with their lives.
Will businesses survive? Time will tell.
I’m with the majority in the US who think we are trying too soon and the economy IS what we are thinking about (as well as the deaths).
We just did our part in keeping some places we love in business - way overpaying for take out food to help make up for business lost. We were repaid in thanks, and one owner gave me a nice Mother’s Day gift. I know should tides ever change we can count on them to help us out. We donated to the local food bank and a medical cause (unrelated to Covid) yesterday. Community helps community.
My company announced the returning to work policy. Pretty much they follow the state guideline but in limited number. Phase 1 - only 15% of people can return to the office. The priority is for those whose job is more productive in the office (i.e. group of people with critical projects that required visual brain storming and on-going discussion). Phase 2 - up to 30%, phase 3 - up to 60%. Only when we have reliable vaccines that the employees can return to work 100%.
The offices have been rearranged, fiber glass barriers are installed where needed, chairs are removed to ensure the % capacity allowed. Chairs in the cafeteria are locked and spaced out. Hand sanitizer stations are installed everywhere. The elevator has arrows and spot where people can stand (4 people facing the walls).
All the necessary measures but it feels like a nail in the coffin, we are going to live like this for many years? Ugh, I mean IF we have reliable vaccines, can we go back to the way it was before COVID???
Vaccines are never 100% effective,and seasonal flu is often just 60-75% effective. No reason to expect this will be any different.
https://covid19.ca.gov/roadmap/
The referenced indicators or questions are listed at:
But not in terms of numbers. Not all of the questions have numerical answers.
I don’t expect the vaccines to be 100% effective. But even so, are you saying we are never going to hug or be in close space like we used to? I just don’t know.
I’m noting a lot of job openings at school for next year compared to normal years. They aren’t in my school (high school), so I don’t have inside info to know if they are “normal” (retirements or life changes) or Covid related. I just see the postings. If they’re Covid related, I fully understand why some teachers wouldn’t want to return in the fall (Covid spread affecting them) or aren’t happy with the online format we have now (it really isn’t the same).
Anyone else noticing more than average school positions opening up?
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Keep in mind that the healthdata website smooths the data, and for Ohio only has confirmed cases thru May 1. The state’s website probably has the most accurate, up-to-date data. Here’s Ohio’s, but it doesn’t seem to play nicely with my ipad.
https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/overview
Vaccines vary in effectiveness. Seasonal flu tends to be on the lower end of the commonly used vaccines in the US (and it varies from one season to another). Others, like measles, polio, and rubella, tend to have high seroconversion to immunity that is long lasting. We obviously do not know now where a COVID-19 vaccine will fall in the effectiveness range if one is made.
I read an article on CNN by a reporter who visited Sweden on assignment. He said stores crowded, bars crowded- no masks, no hand sanitizer. He said it was just life going on as normal, which was very strange for him - I believe he lives in U.K. He watched people sitting around drinking beer in groups and thought about how he would love to do that but just couldn’t bring himself to.
If a new vaccine is as effective as flu vaccine in at least mitigating the severity of infections that vaccinated but infected individuals experience, then we actually could go back to “normal,” in terms of how “normal” has been experienced in recent history.
@Nrdsb4 I really hope so, I hope you are right.
You can ** double ** it and Florida’s deaths per million is still half of Pennsylvania’s and 20% of Connecticut’s. New Hampshire has a similar death per million as Florida (78FL, 84NH) and their population density is less than half of Florida’s and tiny cities and vacationers in the winter compared to Florida. There is no explanation that makes sense except the weather and lifestyle. Hopefully we will all benefit from this as the weather warms up.
Little NH with no public transport and small population and low density has 2091 cases per million. Florida has 1825 cases per million. Both states testing per million is almost identical (22kish).
https://state.1keydata.com/state-population-density.php
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Here’s the BBC article:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52395866
If someone is just looking, they aren’t seeing the data.
I’ve been wondering how elevators would be handled. Dh works in a very big building. A restriction on 4 people per car would mean it would take forever for people to come and go (though I know they are also discussing staggering start and stop times). I’m just imagining how weird it would feel to be in an elevator and be facing the wall.
Will many even want to? If WFH, staggered start/stop times, hotelling etc. last for long periods of time and become the new normal there maybe little incentive to go back to the old work model. One of the upsides would be reduced traffic congestion due to fewer commuters (which is good for the environment, for the health of commuters, and results in lower costs).
Time and time again we learn there is no magic bullet. That the way to control this is Stay at Home, and versions thereof, until we have more effective treatments and a vaccine.
Agreed - and agreed that greater reopenings will STILL be economically very, very difficult for most folks. Some people will get their jobs back. Many will not. Many services will shut down because large numbers of people will not be living/shopping/socializing as before. And any business dependent on those numbers will suffer and may close.
We will have a high unemployment, a high bankruptcy rate, a high foreclosure rate. And we will still have many sick and dying. And we will still have periodic quarantines.
We need to be looking at how to react to this economic disaster. Because it will be a disaster, whether we continue with versions of SAH, or not. It may be time for another New Deal. The country will need it. Unless we want to go down the road of, say, Brazil or Venezuela.