You mean this?
It is a collection of anecdotes of serious sickness and/or long term damage, but no information about how frequent these are. Except for the Diamond Princess cohort (where a large number of asymptomatic COVID-19 recovered people were found to have lung abnormalities in CT scans), there seems to be little or no research on the frequency of long term damage due to COVID-19.
Just as COVID-19 is now more of a partisan political issue than a public health issue, wearing or not wearing a mask is now commonly seen as a way of openly declaring your partisan political views, whether or not that is your intent when wearing or not wearing a mask. Obviously, not everyone’s decision to wear or not wear a mask matches the assumed partisan political views, but people may make that assumption of others anyway.
Yes, it may be an uncomfortable feeling for those who do not wear clothing with political slogans in normal activity (outside of political events, rallies, protests, etc.) and are not members of visible racial/ethnic groups who heavily skew (at least in the local area) to one party or political alignment. But it should not be surprising.
I visited a relative in the hospital today on Long Island. We sat in the lounge with other patients and visitors. Am dismayed that most visitors and patients were either not weaing masks or wearing them exposing their nose. This laxity in a hospital with supervision and rules! If this is a preview of mask wearing, I am worried about transmission in my kid’s high school. From what i hear mask wearing in school can only be encouraged , not mandatory. Odds are most high school kids won’t wear them in class. ?
At this point it’s ancient history. However, in defense of socals larger point regarding mixed messaging. Fact-check by statesmen and snopes.
“Catsimatidis interview
On Jan. 26, Fauci gave an interview to John Catsimatidis, a syndicated radio host in New York. “What can you tell the American people about what’s been going on?” Catsimatidis asked. “Should they be scared?”
“I don’t think so,” Fauci said. “The American people should not be worried or frightened by this. It’s a very, very low risk to the United States, but it’s something we, as public health officials, need to take very seriously.””
Jan 21
“Fauci said, “Obviously, you need to take it seriously and do the kind of things the (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) and the Department of Homeland Security is doing.
But this is not a major threat to the people of the United States and this is not something that the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about.””
“As late as February 29
On Feb. 29, Fauci gave an interview on the NBC morning talk show “Today,” during which he stated that at that moment in time, “the risk is still low, but this could change.”
“I’ve said that many times even on this program,” Fauci stated in that interview. “You’ve got to watch out because although the risk is low now, you don’t need to change anything you’re doing. When you start to see community spread, this could change and force you to become much more attentive to doing things that would protect you from spread.””
I know it seems like it was so easy to see coming now and failures of systems at different levels. But it was clearly murky waters for decision makers to enact drastic and preemptive measures with this type of scientific input in real time. Imho.
Those quotes exactly prove my point. Thank you.
That why I posted them in total.
However, I can see socials point as well. It was pretty murky and Americans don’t have to worry is pretty close to what he stated.
Live updates: Federal government to scale back testing support even as hospitalizations reach new highs
By Teo Armus and Katie Shepherd
June 24, 2020 at 1:44 a.m. EDT
The Washington Post
New coronavirus cases continued to rise in many parts of the United States, as seven states — Arizona, Arkansas, California, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas — reported record high numbers of hospitalizations since the pandemic began. Thirty-three states and U.S. territories reported a higher rolling average than last week. Even as case numbers climb, the federal government is poised to stop providing federal aid to testing sites in some hard-hit states, including Texas, where new cases have spiked sharply in recent weeks.
This weekend, President Trump said he told officials to “slow down” testing to lower the number of newly reported coronavirus cases in the country. His team initially claimed that the suggestion was a joke, but Trump contradicted that claim Tuesday, saying, “I don’t kid.” But top public health experts testifying before Congress on Tuesday denied having been told to scale back testing and reiterated the importance of continuing widespread screenings to hamper the spread of the virus.
Since the start of the pandemic, the United States has recorded more than 2.3 million cases and at least 119,000 deaths, while globally the number of cases has soared past 9 million.
Here are some significant developments:
Officials in Phoenix on Tuesday declined to enforce local requirements to wear masks in public spaces at Trump’s rally, where a crowd of supporters largely bucked the mandate and ignored social distancing guidelines.
Texas Children’s Hospital began admitting adult patients as hospitalizations have soared in Harris County in and around Houston. Meanwhile, Gov. Greg Abbott ® urged Texans to stay inside to avoid spreading the virus. “The safest place for you is at your home,” he said Tuesday.
Professional sports continue to hit roadblocks as they try to start back up. Three players, including Megan Rapinoe, pulled out of the National Women’s Soccer League’s Challenge Cup tournament set for this weekend. Tennis star Novak Djokovic became the fourth participant in the Adria Tour to test positive. Denver Nuggets center Nikola Jokic also tested positive, as the National Basketball Association entered Phase 2 of its reopening plans on Tuesday. Major League Baseball, meanwhile, announced Tuesday on Twitter that its back-and-forth with the players’ union had been resolved and that athletes were reporting to training camps.
Yosemite National Park in California announced that it is canceling reservations at six campgrounds less than two weeks after reopening to visitors, as the state recorded 5,000 new cases in one day.
Check me on this logic here:
It seems to be accepted that homemade cloth masks protect others from the wearer by trapping virus on moisture that’s exhaled (if the wearer is positive). However the masks provide no protection from others as it can’t capture aerosolized virus.
Assuming this is correct, logic says improper handling wouldn’t increase or cause exposure to the virus because the mask isn’t trapping virus from others. It’s only trapping your own virus if you’re already infected, in which case, well… too late.
This logic wouldn’t apply to N95/NN99 masks which do protect the wearer by trapping external 3rd party virus.
I agree with the posters above that there has been “mixed messaging” about the coronavirus which has caused confusion.
Here’s more mixed messaging, from Factchecker:
Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — Trump in a CNBC interview.
Jan. 30: “We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you.” — Trump in a speech in Michigan.
Feb. 10: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” — Trump at the White House. (See our item “Will the New Coronavirus ‘Go Away’ in April?“)
Feb. 14: “There’s a theory that, in April, when it gets warm — historically, that has been able to kill the virus. So we don’t know yet; we’re not sure yet. But that’s around the corner.” — Trump in speaking to National Border Patrol Council members.
Feb. 23: “We have it very much under control in this country.” — Trump in speaking to reporters.
Feb. 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” — Trump in a tweet.
Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing.
Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference.
Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference, when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”
Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” — Trump at a White House meeting with African American leaders.
Feb. 29: “And I’ve gotten to know these professionals. They’re incredible. And everything is under control. I mean, they’re very, very cool. They’ve done it, and they’ve done it well. Everything is really under control.” — Trump in a speech at the CPAC conference outside Washington, D.C.
March 4: “[W]e have a very small number of people in this country [infected]. We have a big country. The biggest impact we had was when we took the 40-plus people [from a cruise ship]. … We brought them back. We immediately quarantined them. But you add that to the numbers. But if you don’t add that to the numbers, we’re talking about very small numbers in the United States.” — Trump at a White House meeting with airline CEOs.
March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate.”)
March 7: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, we’ve done a great job with it.” — Trump, when asked by reporters if he was concerned about the arrival of the coronavirus in the Washington, D.C., area.
March 9: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!” — Trump in a tweet.
March 10: “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” — Trump after meeting with Republican senators.
etc…
This kind of reminds me of the public health discussion of whether it’s OK to wait to put a condom on until after some of the fooling around, because of certain probabilities. (For these thoughts, I blame whoever made up that quip about the variety of mask placement making us realize why birth control fails.)
As I understand it, anytime you touch your face (or something that touches your face) you are risking getting all kinds of germs into your UR system.
Also, there certainly could be droplets containing the coronavirus (or other disease) that end up on the outside of your clothes and mask in general.
Also, I don’t think it’s “zero” protection from the virus in the first place, if you have multiple layers of fabric (plus some luck in where stuff lands) - it’s not 95%, but what did the result say, 20% or something?
There’s theoretically also a risk that something could get onto the inside of the mask, which, if you reuse masks without washing them, could then be shoved against your mouth/nose.
Finally, as I mentioned in the original story, I did have gloves, wipes, etc. available to me, so I’m pretty confident I could have removed my mask carefully and correctly without risk of any of these problems. (I even had more masks waiting in the ziploc in my glove compartment in case of other stops on the trip.) I just didn’t want to be the only jerk on the road not wearing a mask to protect fellow citizens.
I really don’t mean this in a bad way, but I’d like to know where in MA you are since it seems so different from where I am. You’ve used the terms “ virtue signaling” to describe your own behavior, and call others that don’t follow your example “jerks”. It’s polar opposite where I am. It’s very rare to see people with masks in cars. Are you maybe in Cambridge or somewhere else very close to the city?
I meant that I didn’t want to seem like the jerk; I don’t think I called anyone else one.
I was at the time driving through Brookline, Belmont, and Watertown, a tiny corner of Cambridge as well.
I’m glad to see the TX governor finally taking this seriously and encouraging though not mandating mask wearing and staying home.
I didn’t say it was a study/research of any kind.
If one chooses to dismiss these accounts of how the illness affected some people because it’s not from a study, that’s fine with me.
That being said, it’s still not the flu or even the bad flu.
Thx for posting that timeline of statements.
I’d like to add that my H has been on calls every week since the CV task force was formed and not once did the states and local governments (who these calls were for) receive any guidance at all. Dr. Fauci was never on these calls and Dr. Birx only once. My husband said repeatedly that these calls were useless. They were filled with people in the administration spewing platitudes about what a great job they were doing. That was all.
In addition, it wasn’t until sometime in April, iirc, that it was reported that the virus had been coming from Europe into east coast cities for months. The travel ban from Europe (but not the UK at first) was in reaction to the outbreak in Italy so it wouldn’t come here.
We have made such a colossal mess of things.
‘Americans Face New Virus Limbo as Some Reopenings Are Halted’
DENVER —“ Soaring cases of the coronavirus are forcing cities and states across the country to halt plans to restart their economies and even reimpose earlier limits on public life, increasing worries that premature reopenings could lead to a second round of closures.”
“Much of the new tension over the safety of reopening is playing out in the West and South, where the numbers are getting worse, and has split along partisan lines.“
“In Utah, Gov. Gary Herbert, a Republican, said he had “no plans to shut down Utah’s economy” after the state’s epidemiologist warned that the “only viable option to manage spread and deaths will be a complete shutdown” and urged the governor to reimpose tougher limits on public life.”
“Restaurants, electronics retailers, salons and bakeries across the country have been reopening only to shut down weeks later after workers or customers report illnesses — a pattern that business owners fear will repeat itself for months until there is a vaccine or treatment for Covid-19.”
“What we’re seeing now is the effects of our earlier phases of reopening,” said Ben Ridenhour, a bio-mathematician and assistant professor at the University of Idaho who has modeled the virus’s course through the state. “It’s a little bit scary. The models are showing things are going to be getting worse unless we do something to rectify the situation.”
I’ve seen people post (here and other places) about socializing only with a small group of friends. I wonder how many different circles each of those friends belongs to and how often they meet. If you have lunch with Suzy on Tuesday, get coffee with Betty on Thursday, and take a walk with Jane on Saturday, etc., don’t you wonder how many people they’ve socialized with during the week? Or are people assuming that the 4 or 5 other people they consider close friends are limiting themselves to the same 4 or 5 people?
Not dismissing the anecdotes (which seem to be worryingly common), but it is hard to make informed decisions on either a personal level or a public health level in the absence of real data on how frequently these types of bad results occur, especially in context of pre existing risk factors.
[quote=“ucbalumnus, post:2799, topic:2096313”]
[quote=“emilybee, post:2795, topic:2096313”]
It’s not hard to make informed decisions about this on either level.
That it happens at all is an indication that this virus can have deadly or life altering consequences. We do not need any studies to tell us that.
Your reasoning is just another in a long line of excuses that people use to dismiss this virus as something they won’t get or will get it but be fine.