Coronavirus thread for June

Parent Cafe
1881

In my European country, all K to 13 schools have now opened for all students. Classes have been divided into two “groups” (usually 10 to 15 kids) so desks can be spaced out, and teaching is hybrid, either every other day or every other week for each group, with distance learning the other days/weeks. Some have reduced hours so class times can be staggered.

No masks in the classroom, but in the hallways/bathrooms. No sharing of supplies or snacks. Regular hand washing and airing out of classrooms.

Two of mine have been back for the third week now. I can tell it’s doing them good. Both are happy with their group (none of them is with all the kids they like, but they are with no kids they dislike. One has mentioned he likes the low numbers and shorter hours because he can concentrate better.

My teenager will be back for the first time next week. Also likes his group composition. All social interaction - unless the other kid(s) around happen to be a perfect fit - stresses him out, but he was the one most affected by the social isolation during lockdown, being unable to see his few good friends for months. (The younger ones are young enough to still enjoy family time, and play well together). Wondering how much school will help with this, because his best friends are not at his school, but “lesser” friends are in his group. Yes, he’s super particular socially, sigh.

Also, he seems to be the one suffering most from the lack of organized exercise. He doesn’t like it, but does need it to be able to relax and sleep well, so it was great when he found he actually did like crew and had practice twice a week to go to. But regular crew still hasn’t started up yet, only rowing in single sculls is allowed and he is not advanced enough for that.

H who is a high school teacher has reported that the kids are very disciplined in the classrooms and building (so much so that the energy has quite gone, no one is horsing around or cracking jokes, he rather misses it) but as soon as the kids are out, masks come off and distancing is shot.

It’s probably too early to call, but a number of years have been in school from late April onwards, and no outbreaks have been associated with schools as such (some church and meat packing spillovers into schools) so I think it’s both that kids are less easily infected and less infectious AND masking/distancing/ventilation and being outside when not masked/distancing all help.

Maybe some hopeful thoughts for the future.

1882

Dr. McGinn is the David J. Greene Professor of Medicine at Hofstra Northwell School of Medicine and currently Chair of Department of Medicine, according to Wikipedia. The study appears to be this one:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2765184

This is an early (April 22) but large and comprehensive study of patients admitted to the hospital for covid. I don’t see how it helps us learn anything about the long term effects of covid, though, because the patients weren’t followed up for long after they were discharged. “The overall length of stay was 4.1 days (IQR, 2.3-6.8). The median postdischarge follow-up time was 4.4 days (IQR, 2.2-9.3).”

So, lets say someone hadn’t regained their sense of smell after the short post-discharge follow-up, or they had lingering issues with shortness of breath that affected their athletic performance, this study wouldn’t detect that.

Moreover, the study has nothing at all to say about people who contract covid and are not hospitalized, which is of course the vast majority of infected people. Someone with a “mild” disease (where “mild” here means anything short of being hospitalized) could have lingering effects, and this study would not detect them, either

So I don’t know on what basis Dr. McGinn states that most symptoms eventually go away. Nor do I find much comfort in it; if my fever goes down, and my headaches go away, and my sense of smell returns, but my lungs are permanently damaged and I can’t go bike touring any more, most of my symptoms would have gone away, but I want all of them to go away. (This is hypothetical. Thankfully, I am perfectly healthy.)

1883

Thanks! I thought the article seemed too simplistic. You are right in that the problems in people who were hospitalized weren’t really followed up long-term after release, and there is no mention of people who had covid but weren’t hospitalized.

1884

Well, like I said, it isn’t huge numbers, but they occur. Like you said in the part I elided, a number of the healthcare providers who became ill fall into this, but also, for example, the children and young adults who appear to have had (at least something like) Kawasaki syndrome triggered by the novel coronavirus. And of course, there’s the occasional healthy young individual who gets very sick from the virus from what appears to be simply a matter of rolling snake eyes.

Basically, we know so little about who gets sick in what way from this virus, and also so little about how to treat it, that exposing people on purpose isn’t a sensible option, even leaving aside the ethics, at this point. A few months into the future? Yeah, we might know more then. But as of now, we don’t even necessarily know what we don’t know.

1885

@MarylandJOE — let the pushback begin, lol. Actually your idea about exposing people to low doses of COVID would be nice in theory, but in real life has some serious practical obstacles. I think most virologists would agree that a high dose of virus can make you sicker, but that doesn’t mean that a low dose won’t make you very sick as well – that will depend on host factors. Probably the young women in the bar all got mild cases because they were young women. Whereas a medical assistant in my practice who was exposed to a COVID patient for the 5 minutes it took her to get his vital signs landed in the hospital with COVID. She was older, and overweight.

And then there’s the issue that research has to be considered ethical to be permitted. I doubt any review board would pass on deliberately exposing people to live virus when there is not an effective treatment available. But it’s a really interesting question.

1886

[quote=“BunsenBurner, post:1878, topic:2096313”]

I have gone out to dinner outside a few times. I got my hair done once and my nails done once. I have been to the mall and other stores. I HAVE WORN A MASK when indoors or unable to SD. I have been to a friends house , that I have included in our bubble and us in theirs (but no parties). I am not willing to lock myself in my house for a year and I am doing these thing responsibly and feel confident about my choices… I have taken a COVID test before being around someone over 80 . So yes you can do some of these things safely.

1887

What a contrast with overall attitudes toward the virus there compared with here. I wish we were doing things the way New Zealand is doing things overall.

1888

What a contrast with overall attitudes toward the virus there compared with here. I wish we were doing things the way New Zealand is doing things overall.

Our walks are like this, too. We also feel very lucky we can take walks and look at beautiful nature. I feel for anyone who would like to do so and can’t right now.

1889

I live in an urban area which has pluses and minuses - but I envy being able to step outside without a mask (or step onto the sidewalk without seemingly getting in line…ok, that’s an exaggeration).

Today I heard my sister’s yard noise on the phone, a symphony of birds, and I felt jealous. She lives in a much more rural area. My DH heard it through the phone and said, “can she turn down those birds?” LOL

1890

With the sun coming up before 5AM and being a night owl myself, I often want to tell those birds to shut up in the early AM but overall love being surrounded by nature.

The bear huffing around the woods on the edge of my lawn last night at 3 AM was not needed, however.

We live in an area where it is easy to walk/run without worrying about masks due to plenty of space. Kiddo and partner were visiting from a major city where masks are mandatory and found it a refreshing break to go outside without a mask on.

1891

Today there were two bald eagles fighting with a murder of crows (or rather it was the crows that were chasing the ruffled-feathered eagles out of their territory), it was LOUD!! The birds are definitely a blessing in disguise here. Lol.

1892

I literally thought that was going to be “easy to walk/run without worrying about a BEAR” how did you sneak that in…I would be terrified if a bear were in my lawn. Actually, I might hope he’d eat raccoons or other rodents (do they do that?). Wait, also, how did you know it was a bear?

On the topic of the virus and nature and urban living - it makes me really wonder how we’ll get a semblance of normalcy in cities, using public transportation etc. Somehow they do manage in other parts of the world, right?

1893

I’ve never worn a mask while power walking and hope I never have to. It seems like it would be a little stressful to be masked while exercising, and I’m someone who has easily tolerated a mask while working a 12 hour shift in the OR. The streets in my neighborhood are very wide, and maintaining a great distance is very easy here.

The past several days, we have had painters in the house as we prepare our house for the market. Not only are strangers in my house for 8-9 hours a day (a challenge for me pre-COVID, but even more so now), but because they are working both inside and outside in 95 degree heat, again we have massive man BO going on inside the house. Gah…I get it-they are human beings and humans sweat when they get hot. I’d smell too if I worked outside in the Texas heat. But still…

They all wear masks, but with so many of them (4-5 at a time inside in various parts of the house), I’ve masked up in my little study all day long with the door closed. I’m not sure how this virus works with AC circulating throughout the house. They are supposed to finish on Friday, and it can’t come soon enough.

They are very conscientious, though. They take their temps before they come in, all are wearing masks and shoe covers, and they go through the house with clorox wipes, wiping down doorknobs and stair rail when they leave. In fact, their end of the day cleanup is the best I’ve ever seen. Still, I go over all that again with my own wipes, and also wipe down all light switches and any other surface they were likely to have touched.

COVID just sucks.

1894

I live in an urban area which has pluses and minuses - but I envy being able to step outside without a mask (or step onto the sidewalk without seemingly getting in line…ok, that’s an exaggeration).

Today I heard my sister’s yard noise on the phone, a symphony of birds, and I felt jealous. She lives in a much more rural area. My DH heard it through the phone and said, “can she turn down those birds?” LOL

[/quote]

Funny! We used to live in the city so I have thought about what it is like dealing with stay at home in various cities. Our daily walks keep me sane (or semi-sane!) :slight_smile: I don’t know what I would do without them. This is OT but I hope it will be allowed since it’s a cute short story. We moved here from a city and the first night I was amazed by how quiet it is. DH said suddenly, “I can’t sleep with all this nose.” He meant the cicadas. lol!

1895

Being close to nature is one of the few things consistently providing me with comfort these days. I live in a small city but my house is next to a nature preserve. Yesterday and today, I saw a fawn in my backyard. Being able to look out the window from my work station simultaneously distracts me and gives me a reason to not get up.

1896

Speaking of “wildlife.” Crows and rats abandoned the city here!!! Not much happening downtown these days, sadly. However, this CHAZ or CHOP or whatever you call this block party is making them happy! Trash galore.

1897

I love the music of the birds - at all hours. And the frogs, insects, and pretty much anything to do with nature. I’ll put an exception in for mosquitoes, but at our place the bats take care of them so a buzz or bite is rare.

Covid-wise, I spent a little more than $700(!) at the grocery store today getting enough “stuff” for 3 weeks, one of which will be spent at FIL’s with my BIL and perhaps SIL also there as well as the 4 of us who live here. The cashier (young) said that was the most stuff and most expensive receipt she had ever done. Do I win a prize or something?

Anyway… no more one way entry/exit into and out of the store. That was new since last week. They were fairly well stocked, but as before, you may not get the brand of something you want. Rice and cleaners were light, but there. Canned soup was light. That surprised me. Summer is here! I had hoped to get two Campbell’s Golden Mushroom for a recipe we love, but none were there. I’ve never seen them out of that one before.

Masks are no longer required in the store, but I only saw three people without them, two were together. As usual for our area, absolutely everyone was being patient and social distancing with no reminders required.

I still need to get Arnold’s Oat Nut bread (our favorite, but it wasn’t in stock) and a Vegan Pizza for DIL, then we’re going to stop at the local market tomorrow to see if a place that carries Brazil nuts and chocolate covered almonds is open. If not, I can get the chocolate covered almonds at the grocery store. We have to gas up the car too.

Then no more shopping for three weeks. That’s the positive aspect of doing so much today!

The rest of the day I was finishing cutting our horse pasture letting my mind wander. It came up with the question, “If someone offered us a million dollars for this place, would we take it?” (It’s worth a little less than half of that by valuation.) My final answer was no. I enjoy going elsewhere for a chunk of winter, but this time of year I can’t imagine being anywhere else. We have room to roam, a garden, a one acre pond, creek access with our own private campsite as well as being on a back road that rarely gets traffic. Then too we’re within minutes of essentials like my job, groceries, restaurants, the post office, etc, and just a day trip to DC or Baltimore if we want anything only a city has.

And now there’s Covid. I can’t imagine being anywhere else - except in winter when I want a balcony overlooking the water!

If my kids don’t want the place when we’re gone, someone else can enjoy it then.

I hope everyone else enjoys where they are too. It doesn’t have to be the same, of course - some of y’all would detest this area - too much nature and too “little” going on… We love it.

1898

Does anyone else know anyone who seems to want to catch the virus?

For them it’s not for the immunity (I could understand that). It seems to be due to wanting the attention they would get from others - including medical folks if they ended up in the hospital, and they could considering a couple of comorbidities even though they aren’t super old.

H and I are shaking our heads. Is that common?

1899

@Creekland, as the boss in chief at my workplace likes to say, “Winner, winner, chicken dinner!”

1900

@Creekland

I personally don’t know anyone that wants to get the virus for attention. Although perhaps my MIL would like to say she has it even if she doesn’t for attention. At least that’s how she is with everything else.

Now me, I’m about at the point where I’d not care if I got it tomorrow, for immunity. I’m not going out of my way to get it but I’m not worried about it either. I am still wearing a mask when required but I’m done with the hand sanitizer (dried my hands out). I do wash my hands when soap and water is available. I might even go so far as to say if someone could guarantee me a small dose that I’d go ahead and get that now to avoid getting a larger dose at some undetermined time in the future.

I do know others that realize they are going to get it sooner or later and aren’t really afraid of that either.