<p>It’s still gay, and it shouldn’t be that way. I don’t see any good in that system, honestly.</p>
<p>But aren’t most European school systems like that?
Well, these systems have one advantage: Every student at a certain type of school has an (almost) identical course of study, so if you meet student A from city G and student B from city H and they both have a certain type of certificate, you know that they have had a very similar course of study and proficiency in certain areas. If you meet two people who both have an American high school diploma, you basically don’t know anything except that they went to school for at least 12 years. So we don’t need SATs and stuff like that.
But actually I agree with you - it’s gay.</p>
<p>Well every system has its advantages and downfalls. High school education is better here, but superior education isn’t even comparable between Europe and the US. <em>shrug</em></p>
<p>You guyz think the Dutch system is crazy check out the indian system for grading :-</p>
<p>India</p>
<p>Scale</p>
<p>U.S. Grade Equivalents
60-100 A
55-59 B+
50-54 B
43-49 C+
35*-42 C
0-34 F</p>
<p>And as an indian studying in an indian school i think this is way out of proportion. In this case 90% of the indians will be getting A’s in all of the subjects for the us grade equivalent.
I personally feel something is really wrong in the grading system the site is showing.
Can the site wes.com be trusted</p>
<p>Most universities require that international students have their transcipts evaluated by WES and take their evaluation for true. So I guess it can be trusted.
And besides, if I were you, I would not complain if all of my grades would turn to straight As.</p>
<p>Duygu, the student would already be on the “lower” level of education, so he would have to spend extra years in high school to become eligible for university. And all because of the arbitrary decision of an elementary school teacher to put him in the non-university stream. </p>
<p>Ridiculous.</p>
<p>I don’t even want to think about the implications for ethnic diversity (particularly Muslims) at top Dutch universities, when you’ve got uniracial schoolteachers making binding decisions on children’s futures.</p>
<p>The equivalents are used at the average US universities. The “college prep” level of international education is more difficult than that of an average US highschool. However, if you are applying to highly selective US colleges, that is a whole different story. You will find that international student at say, Harvard are not assessed on that scale. The same holds for US students. Kids going to certain “top” highschools that have a screening process (the selective private preps, the entry exam required publics) are given latitude on their grades, as well for all but the larger schools where the admissions is done like a cattle herd. The schools that scrutinize the transcripts will not assess the grades from a school like Exeter the same way it would for Anytown High.</p>
<p>Well actually being a Muslim in at a Dutch school of sucks, since most of them go to very bad schools and aren’t as good as at Dutch as pure Dutch children are. So I think you’re absolutely right about that. There are very few foreigners (i.e Turkish, Morrocan, colored people) at Dutch universities. And well, I’m a Muslim myself so I can really see the problem. Though I must say it’s not really that much about the teachers as it is the situation in which the children are raised: low-income, low-educated parents and bad neighbourhood. So a lot of them do poorly on important tests.
You could kind of compare it to the situation of some (or many, don’t really know) Hispanics and African-American’s in the US.</p>
<p>Hey,
I live in holland and finally some others do !</p>
<p>I did gymnasium my first 2 years and after that my teacher decided to put me in HAVO because i was too ‘immature’ for VWO and i had no say or anything. The sucks school system sucks, but if you do VWO or Gymnasium you basically kick ass. </p>
<p>I wonder what the equivelent to the average US highschool education is, VMBO or HAVO ?</p>
<p>BTW is that post about India true ?!?! That is just wrong.</p>
<p>and to the OP, atleast in my school 7s have to be deserved and 8s are very rare. My GPA therefor is about 3.3 3.4 converted which is like a 7.2ish right ?
So, no i don’t believe an eight is too low to be counted as an A. But it probobly depends, like a 10 in VMBO would be like an eight in HAVO and that would be a 7 in VWO i guess.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>Groenveld9, that’s garbage. So what’s your plan for the future then, if you’re no longer in Gymnasium?? </p>
<p>By the way, does anyone ever try bribing the teachers? I mean, if a parent is aware that the decision of some teacher determines whether their child gets the opportunity to earn a university education, I think it would be well worth it.</p>
<p>At my Dutch uni I’ve got a 7.6 average, which is considered quite good. A friend of mine who has a 7.9 spent the semester in the US at the University of Arizona. Got 100% in all his advanced econ classes, and in one class got above 100%. Apparently they got an A on their homework as long as they did it. And this isn’t some exchange students-only class. He was one of three foreign students because he was taking what was supposed to be the more challenging courses.</p>
<p>You figure a 7.2 is a 3.3-3.4 in the US? Fair enough. What does 7.6 translate to then?</p>
<p>i don’t know exactly of course… i hear alot of ‘unweighted and weighted’ but i am not exactly sure of what that is.
I was under the impression that the rough conversion was this:</p>
<p>A = 8,9,10
B = 7
C = 6
D = 5
F = 4 and below</p>
<p>I have never been at an american school so i cannot verify this exactly, and many other things have to be taken into consideration but this is pretty close.</p>
<p>A 7.6 according to this would be like a A- or a big B+ i guess. If someone does know the actual conversion is please post.</p>
<p>I strongly disagree with Nauru that i ‘have no future except for being an elementary school teacher’, if you in fact meant that. Havo is no wonderland but it is certainly enough to get you places, one year earlier infact. VWO and Gymnasium are very rigorous and almost guarantee you a good future if you use your diploma wisely. I can’t keep looking back and wondering if I could have kept on doing Gymnasium if I had made a better impression because that would just be silly.
Also just a small comment, i think a Gymnasium education + exp. at a Dutch University would give you a FAR greater edge than a normal American student at U of Arizona. So that might explain the 100%'s. I wish i got 10’s for doing my homework. lol</p>
<p>I plan to go to college in the US after my HAVO.</p>
<p>By the way which university do you go to in Holland ? VU ? UVA ?
Also, what was garbage ?
Cheers</p>
<p>Oh i bet it was the VMBO - HAVO - VWO conversions… aha
You are right and i am embarrassed. Well no one is perfect, unless you do gymnasium and get 9’s and 10’s.
By the way i was wondering what the %'s were of the dutch ed’s…
one guy said it was like
VMBO = 70%
HAVO = 20%
VWO = 10%
and most others said the same or differed 5%.
Do you know the exact numbers ?</p>
<p>Groenveld, I was just asking what you are planning to do once you are done your current school. Just a genuine question, not trying imply anything or be rude. I’m not really familiar with the Dutch school system other than VWO, hogeschoolen and universities.</p>
<p>Regarding the conversion, the one you posted is the typical one posted by Dutch university administrators. However, it’s also important to look at how American or British schools do the conversion, since if you apply within holland then conversion is irrelevant anyway. Actual up-to-date charts are hard to come by on american uni websites, but here is the official one used by UW Madison. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.grad.wisc.edu/admin/iadmiss/000012371.html[/url]”>http://www.grad.wisc.edu/admin/iadmiss/000012371.html</a></p>
<p>PS: I’m at UvA. </p>
<p>Garbage=teacher choosing a school for student, based on perceived level of maturity.(IMO)</p>
<p>Oh aha, sorry for the misunderstanding. I agree about the garbage and have little confidence in how the whole system is set-up.
Thanks for the link and UW is by chance one of the schools i am looking at btw. Uva is a good school, what do you think the differences there are between a ‘universiteit’ and a ‘hogeschool’ except for the whole HBO-WO thing and the quality of education ?</p>
<p>Well I don’t know since I’ve never attended a hogeschool, i just know some people who have. My impression is that nearly everyone at hogeschool studies business or management, and that they don’t care much for math.</p>
<p>Also I’m curious, what do you think are the best universities in the netherlands, honestly. I’ve heard there is a huge difference between reputations of Dutch universities within the Netherlands versus rep internationally, and I don’t get why it would be like that.</p>
<p>Damn i wrote a really long and nice post but now it’s gone. Damn. Well here is a short summary:</p>
<p>You are very right about the whole hogeschool thing. I went to the HVA with my school and I could attend a class for a day. I could choose out about 30 subjects, and 20 of them were things like : Business Intelligence Management, International Communications, Business Accountancy etc etc etc.</p>
<p>I believe most foreign people don’t really recognize Holland as an academic powerhouse. Considering that 70% (i verified and it is correct) of the kids here do VMBO that is understandable. Gymnasium and VWO and even Havo do provide Holland with a very talented, smart and driven white collar workforce.
The Universities in Holland are all very good i believe, TU Delft has a good Enginering Program, Erasmus has a great business school, UVA has a good Poli Sci(politicologie) dept., Rietveld College is a renown art institute, Utrecht has a good journalism dept. and Leiden has the best history dept. in the Benelux.
I believe Dutch schools don’t have enough funding, or just run their institutions in a way that less money is needed.
Also when you would ask most American college students if they would like to spend a semester in Holland, the UVA or the Erasmus College do not imediatly come to mind. I believe they come here to smoke pot, drink legally, visit the RLD and … oh yeah go to a museum or two. We of course thank them for this(big chunk of Dutch Tourism revenue!) but that is the stereotype Holland for them. I can’t blame them because i do not expect people to know all the finest Institutions of higher education of each country by heart, but it’s just a pitty because i believe Dutch Universities can offer alot, but so could any American College, from HYP to FSU you can get a great education.
On the other side of things I believe the Dutch people like and respect their Universities, but just don’t really spend alot of time thinking of them because there is almost no admissions process really. Mostly if you fit the requirements you are in(correct me if I am wrong).
Well i hope this might answer your question but i just came back from soccer practice and i am all wet and tired and had to summarize a big a s s thread so forgive me if I totally missed the point.</p>
<p>Btw: Keep the thread active, it’s really informative and cool for Dutch people… yes, all 3 or 4 of us lol.
Cheers</p>
<p>Actually I think a lot of people do recognize Holland’s strength in academics. I mean, the fact that university students are pretty much all in the top 10% of their reference group generally means that those in university really are quite capable. It’s not like Canada (and the US?) where about 50% of high school grads go to university after.</p>
<p>Dutch universities do well in international rankings, and Amsterdam is absolutely overflowing with international students and grad students all over the place. As far as I know, Amsterdam is best known for its faculty of economics (top 10 in Europe, top 50 in the world). It’s also well known for math and law, and apparently other stuff too that i’m not familiar with.</p>
<p>I think you’re right about how for most programs in the Netherlands if you meet the requirements then you’re in. There are a few programs though that are competitive. In my program everyone seems to be gunning for top grad schools. 80% of the class is international students and all the classes are taught in English. The application process requires an entrance exam, and all short-listed applicants are interviewed by the program director. And of course they look at your grades too. Other programs that are competitive are the M.Phil at the Tinbergen Institute, and a few programs at Erasmus, Utrecht and Leiden I think. </p>
<p>I can understand foreigners not wanting to study at Erasmus though. I find 98% of Rotterdam absolutely hideous. That includes the university. I mean, I can’t really imagine anyone choosing Rotterdam over Amsterdam except if they want to study medicine or business. But Amsterdam does have recruitment events with all the big 4 accounting firms, top consultancies and also investment banks.</p>
<p>Funding at Dutch unis varies a lot by department I think. Some faculties at my school are immaculate, while others look much less impressive. That’s just physically, but I imagine it is somewhat a reflection of the overall amount of money available in different faculties.</p>
<p>A lot of the foreign students who come to Amsterdam come for the drugs, but some are into the history and culture too. Sometimes it seems like UvA has half the foreign students in the entire country, because there really are tons. I think most exchange students who come pick Amsterdam because the city is so famous though, not really because of the school. Also it’s probably the only Dutch city most Americans and Canadians have heard of. The UvA campuses also happen to be situated downtown next to canals, and it’s about 400 times nicer than the VU.</p>
<p>Can anyone convert British A/AS and GCSE levels in American GPA?!?</p>