<p>Many of you know that I have worked for the Catholic Church for the past several years of my employment. My most recent position has lasted a year, in a parish. I took the three previous years off to tend to aging and dying parents (I am a sole child). For several years before that, I worked at the Archdiocesan level. I have skills that would be useful in church work, but I also have skills that could transfer to the non- religious sector. </p>
<p>I am about to be fired tomorrow. The story is long and complex, but the bottom line is that my staff has complained about me to the pastor. I do not know the nature of the complaints since he will not tell me. All he has told me is that I need to fix it. When I tried to discuss the situation with one of the employees, she went screaming to him that she wants to resign rather than work for me. The pastor called me on Sunday morning and told me that things were not going to work out and that we had to part ways. </p>
<p>For those of you who are unfamiliar with the catholic church structure, even though we have progressive discipline policies that have not been followed in this case, the pastor can basically do whatever he wants. My only recourse would be to contact the bishop (who in this case is the Cardinal) and let him know what is going on and ask that he help ensure that a bad recommendation from this pastor would not harm my chances to get another position within the Church. The likelihood that the Cardinal will intervene is not high. So- effectively, my career (10 yrs) in church ministry is over, or will be tomorrow. </p>
<p>A question for you all- as I seek employment elsewhere, would you recommend that I leave off this past year’s work and explain my reason for job search as “now being ready to return to the workforce after my family situation has resolved itself” or should I risk having this on my resume and then having to explain why I was fired? </p>
<p>Also- any shows of sympathy would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>pipmom- I’m so sorry to hear of your situation. It sounds truly unfair, hurtful, and unprofessional. Without a process to defend yourself against the mystery allegations, it would seem impossible to improve the situation.</p>
<p>I think it would be worth it to draft a letter to the Bishop/Cardinal requesting a positive recommendation for all the years of service you contributed. Although I have no experience in Human Resources, I think you should include this decade of work in your resume, and explain that you were never told of the accusations made against you in the church office. In the current climate of Catholic Church findings, I’d bet HR managers would totally understand the possible injustice and obfuscation on the part of your employer.</p>
<p>Best of luck in these trying times–hopefully you can find a new situation where honesty and communication are valued.</p>
<p>May you find comfort in God’s words in Jeremiah 29:11. “For I know the plans I have for you” declares the Lord, 'plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."</p>
<p>pipmom, sorry you have had such difficulties, however, leaving it off the resume can be construed as lying about your background. In many organizations, if that comes to light it is a firing offense. Much better to explain that it was not a good fit and the management (pastor) wanted to take things in a different direction. It woudl be better to know why people did not want to work for you though so you can address those points in the future. Perhaps some kind of exit interview can go over that since you won’t be there any longer.</p>
<p>seems to me that unless there is some severance payment involved (which you would get if you were fired but not if you quit) then the better option, insofar as future employment is concerned, would be to resign. singersmom’s suggestions are right on: you can explain the position was not a good fit and that you opted to search for other opportunities outside the church structure.</p>
<p>Are you eligible for or do you need to collect unemployment? That might make a difference in whether you elect to resign or quit. As far as references go, in my state you can only give the persons position, length of employment, salary and whether they are “rehirable”.<br>
Not sure if this is different because it is a Church.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say anything but the truth on future job applications.</p>
<p>I know someone who skirted around the truth on a job application for the federal government…she got caught and now is barred from employment with the federal government because she committed fraud on her application. (Was dishonest about say whether she had been terminated or not.)</p>
<p>There are no unemployment benefits available to those who work in the Church, at least here in Texas. There is also no COBRA for medical insurance. </p>
<p>Luckily, my husband and I have another medical insurance option. </p>
<p>I’m not sure whether HR can tell a prospective employer whether the termination is voluntary or not. I can ask that.</p>
<p>You don’t necessarily need to be offered a chance to resign- you could go in with a letter of prepared. Even if they try to one-up you and insist you do not have the option, you can simply leave the letter and declare that it is your intention. Keep a photocopy (not just the computer file.) Date it today and make if effective [date of your meeting.] Write it graciously; I’m sure we can help there, if you need.<br>
The severance issue- you have to decide what serves you better in the long run. There may be none or it may be a pittance, if at all.
Good luck.
ps. it is possiblle to collect UI after quitting- have to have “good cause.” This is moot here because it’s the church.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether they are allowed to or not, they can tell a prospective employer.</p>
<p>That’s how the person that I know got barred from employment. Her previous employer assured her that no mention of the termination would be made. Then when the government did a background check, whoops, they squealed.</p>
<p>Many employers will ask if you were terminated or resigned in lieu of termination. I wouldn’t worry about trying to resign at this point.</p>
<p>Traditionally, there would be no severance either way. My only hope there would be if the pastor had any sense of mercy whatsoever. Given his behavior thus far, I don’t have a lot of hope for his mercy.</p>
<p>I live in NY, not Texas. I would suggest that you consult an attorney. See if your local bar association offers free or low cost initial consultations. </p>
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<p>While as a practical matter, a pastor can do what he wants, under some state laws, failure to follow progressive discipline policies would give you some rights. I haven’t a clue as to whether that’s the case here–I know absolutely nothing about Texas law. But I really think it would be worth it to find out. </p>
<p>You need to know if you will have the right to collect unemployment if you are fired. In some states, you can’t collect it if you are fired for certain reasons. </p>
<p>You need to know what information, if any, will be given to any potential employers who ask for a reference. </p>
<p>For all of these reasons, I respectfully suggest you contact an attorney. </p>
<p>PS: I wrote the above before you posted saying you get no unemployment–which frankly, I find hard to believe unless you are being paid off the books. If you are–DEFINITELY see a lawyer. </p>
<h2>You need answers to your questions and it’s obvious that you are upset. It might be better for a third party to ask the questions for you than to do it yourself and end up in a worse argument with the pastor. </h2>
<p>Personal advice</p>
<p>You should realize that if you try for another position in the Church, there’s very little chance the fact you’ve held this job won’t become known. It may be out there in cyberspace too. If you google your name, will someone find you listed as the X of St. X Parish?</p>
<p>jonri- the answer is definitely no unemployment benefits whether I quit or am fired. As a Church employee I haven’t paid into the system. </p>
<p>I will pursue consulting an attorney, but obviously can’t between now and tomorrow at high noon, which is when I am supposed to come in. </p>
<p>I believe there will be a rep of HR present at this joyous occasion, from whom I can expect to get some answers, all of which will benefit the Church I’m sure. </p>
<p>Texas is a “right to work” state, if that makes a difference. Which means, even though there are discipline policies to be followed, an employer has the right to terminate at will, with or without cause, unless there is a contract or implied contract.</p>
<p>As for finding me on Google- absolutely I’m there- this would be available to both Church and non- church prospective employers. </p>
<p>I already know that I am basically toast within the church unless I can convince this guy to give me a good recommendation, which honestly, I wouldn’t trust even if he promised it.</p>
<p>(And yes, even though I have supported the Church’s position on many issues, I realize that all the abuse done to the laity by priests is not just sexual. I recognize the great irony of now having the dubious distinction of being fired by an organization that doesn’t even fire pedophiles.)</p>
<p>I would strongly encourage anyone leaving any position to assume the past employer will tell everything he or she desires. You don’t know what they will or won’t say, and people will sometimes not follow policy.</p>
<p>It’s a lot safer to check the box that says “terminated” that to check “resigned” and hope you don’t get caught.</p>
<p>Of course, if the prospective employer doesn’t ask, there is no reason to tell.</p>
<p>I personally know of two situations where employers assured the ex-employee that certain information wouldn’t be shared, and then they did share that information. While it may have been wrong for them to share, there wasn’t anything that the ex-employee could do about it.</p>
<p>Sorry about your troubles. I have to say that the way that you explained it here would probably be acceptable to some employers. I hire people for secretarial and clerical work and it would probably be ok to me. Some people might feel differently I suppose, and perhaps looking for secular employment would be better.</p>
<p>I would not suggest that you find other references, and you may tell prospective employers that you feel that the last position would not give an objective reference.</p>
<p>anothermom2- thanks for your support. I am not at a clerical/secretarial level. The position I hold requires a Masters degree in theology (which I possess) and supervisory experience- which I have in spades, both within the Church and in the secular world. </p>
<p>I think baby’s warning is apt- regardless of what is “supposed” to be revealed, the reality is that all bets are off if anyone gets a hold of this guy to ask about my performance.</p>
<p>pipmom…I’m so sorry. This must be horribly stressful for you and your family. </p>
<p>A couple of things. You must include this job in your history. You can tell potential employers that it was not a good fit…and if pressed…you should tell them you were terminated (honesty is ALWAYS the best policy). I also suggest that you try to find other references…since they may not be fair here… </p>
<p>They may present you with a severance package and ask you to sign a letter in return that says that you won’t sue them. This is what most companies do. But since this is a church, they may let you go with nothing. Keep things civil even in any case. </p>
<p>And don’t beat yourself up. Sometimes personalities clash and even the best employees get backed into a corner and fail as a result. Try to leave bitterness behind. See if you can find a job search group…non-profits (including churches) sometimes run them for free. You need support. And to get another job, you’ll need to maintain a positive outlook (which can be really hard to do). Folks who are in the same boat can help. </p>
<p>If they present you with a severance package, do not sign it immediately. Consult a lawyer. If they don’t - save your money for other things. Including a session or two with a low-cost career counselor, or for help with your resume. Or a massage. Really. You will need to heal and move on. </p>
<p>You are not alone. This happens to lots of people and they get back up on their feet…and are stronger for it. Hang in there and good luck to you.</p>