<p>It never occurred to me, but the idea that a relationship could very well continue on into college is another reason to put limits on freshmen dating seniors in the first place. It’s much harder to say no when the relationship is already established. My soph daughter just turned 16. Up until now it’s been group trips to movies etc. but no individual dating as well. She never saw this as draconian, and had friends whose parents were on both ends of the spectrum. Both kids have told me on various occasions that they are glad they can use me as an excuse not to go to parties where they know they would be uncomfortable. I think the line is “You know how my parents are.” It doesn’t seem to have cramped either one’s social life.</p>
<p>… at least in my parents’ books. As I said earlier, my parents are far more worried about drinking, police busting parties, dangerous driving (speeding or even worse drinking and driving), than me and a boy on a date. My parents have been letting me go on individual dates as far as I can remember, even in middle school I think, as long as they picked me up on both ends and it wasn’t late at night. On the other hand, I am 18 years old now and they are still extremely strict about parties. They make sure parents are home and even then don’t often want me to go. They know that I have no problem calling them (because I have done it before) but they just don’t want to risk my health, safety, or police record. I guess it is because my parents trust me but they have no reason to trust everyone around me? That is my best guess. Haha. I am sure I will figure out my own rhythm and parenting style in 10 years.</p>
<p>Okay, so you never snuck with your date to the party and went back to the designated pick up spot? Because that is what happens often.</p>
<p>You know what, you are completely right. I have never ever did that so my post could be completely pointless to most parents. Most kids do do that and it is definetely a problem. I hope my post did not sound like i was being critical before.</p>
<p>The closest thing I have done to that is more recently. I was at a concert with my sister and we let a friend drive us to get pizza without telling my mom we were doing so. She probably would not have been as ****ed except that I was with my 15 year old sister. I can make the decision to get pizza myself but shouldn’t be promoting that kind of stuff to a freshperson.</p>
<p>citygirlsmom… I think every parent needs to make up their own mind about how much they can trust their own kids, but I can assure you that my daughter has never “snuck” anywhere. </p>
<p>That is in part because she doesn’t have to – you would probably think I was far too permissive, because one reason there is no sneaking or concealing is that there is no need to. If my daughter really wanted to do something that I had reservations about, we would discuss it and find common ground that we could agree upon. </p>
<p>It seems to me that this dating discussion comes up because of discomfort with our daughters’ sexuality. I think we all agree that we want to protect our 14 year olds and that 18 year olds are old enough to go off to college and make their own decisions — but there is considerable difference in how we approach the transition in the 15-17 age range. I don’t think there is any one right answer - it depends on the family, it depends on the kids, and it depends on the specific circumstances.</p>
<p>Uber Laura, like your parents, I am far more worried about parties than dating and more troubled by drinking/drugs than sex. But as respondible as you are, you took your younger sister for pizza and as responsible as she is, she went along - - just as D’s responsible and trustworthy older bf might make some facially innocuous proposal, with which my otherwise responsible and trustworthy might comply. </p>
<p>But while an unauthorized trip for pizza is harmless (in D’s case it was buying a ticket to a PG movie and then sneaking in to see an R picture), in most cases, the infraction is more serious. And that’s the problem, the older child, sib or bf, takes for granted a degree of independence to which the younger child may unaccostomed and situations she may not be able to handle. Sadly, by the time most kids acknowledge they can’t handle a situation, they are already too far into it to disengage.</p>
<p>i wasn’t pointing fingers, it was just a comment</p>
<p>This mom I know has told her daughter she can’t date (she is hiding from her she is dating a Senior), she can’t go to Senior parties, (she goes) and mom says, oh my daughter is perfect and I trust her. I am not fond of this mom anyway, and even if I informedher of what her daughter was doing, she would lie and say she gave the girl permission to save face (another mom did mention something about it and the mom covered for her little angel)</p>
<p>I am just saying sometimes a date can lead to going to a party…it does happen, and maybe the child did not report back all the details of the evening, even if all was great</p>
<p>I say, give your Ds ten years, and some stories of sneaking around once or twice, and not telling the whole story to mom and dad, will come out, I know my Ds will have some to share with me</p>
<p>I did it, and am pretty sure most of the parents here did to</p>
<p>Calmom-</p>
<p>That is exactly what I was going at. When I wrote my original response, I did not take into mind that most parents are much stricter than mine are. I have never had a reason to sneak around like that let alone sneak out of my house. That is SO dangerous. My parents need to know where I am for safetys sake and that is fine with me. I basically tell my mom everything. As she said, she doesn’t need to know everytime I have kiss someone or have a drink (if I am not driving) because some things kids just keep from their parents and as long as it is not dangerous, so be it. But she does need to know if I am in a safe place at all times. I live in Washington DC so mainly she worries about metroing late at night so she gives me money for cabs. With this trust that she has given me, I respect her a lot and therefore do not do what a lot of my friends do, in fact, almost all. That is really pathetic now that i think about it!</p>
<p>Well I am a D and most of the things I have done (gotten in the car with my boyfriend when I was a freshman and he was a senior to go to his house during our free periods… and honestly, all we did was kiss) I have told my mom about. Other than future stuff, especially since I will be in college very soon, I have nothing to tell my mother about in 10 years.</p>
<p>Suuuurrrreeeee/// just kidding, but I tell you, most kids do not tell their parents everything, and that is okay, having a private life is fine, but I can tell you, the majority of kids will have stories to tell their parents, its the nature of kids, even little ones</p>
<p>I know my kids don’t tell me everything, I wouldn’t expect them to, and I do trust them, and I do get most stories, but ALL the moms I know can’t wait until their children are in their 20s so they can really find out what happened at that party, or to the glass bowl, or the ding in the car</p>
<p>That is normal stuff</p>
<p>Actually, the maximum measured time to date that my daughter can keep a secret is 3 weeks. Then it all spills out. In excruciating detail. Once, my son complained when she blabbed about something he had told her in confidence (I can’t remember what) – and I told him that he would better off sending out press releases than to tell his sister something and expect it to be kept secret. </p>
<p>Of course my kids don’t tell me everything they do, but mostly its simply a matter of living their own lives. </p>
<p>Laura, it sounds like my relationship with my daughter is a lot like yours with your mom. I do want to know my daughter is safe. She has a car, so there is no physical limit on where she might go. So for me, its important to know where she is – is she on the road? if so, is she alone? or is she at someone’s house? a restaurant? etc. </p>
<p>Citygirlsmom - I don’t know how old your friend’s daughter is, but the sneaking you see is because the mom has set rules the daughter won’t abide by. Lying and sneaking is done to avoid getting caught. </p>
<p>I never told my daughter she couldn’t date, so she never had to hide information about who she was dating or where she was going. I never told her she couldn’t go to parties, so again: no reason to hide. I ask, where are you going? who with? and when will you be back? I get direct answers because my daughter doesn’t need my permission to go out on a date or attend a party. It doesn’t mean she’s running wild.</p>
<p>I mean - my daughter is older now, but if I had a freshman dating a senior I would rather know about it, meet the kid, meet his parents, and be available to give my daughter advice when she wanted it than to be in the dark, thinking she was one place when she was sneaking off somewhere else. That doesn’t mean I’d favor it – just that I’d rather have good information than a set of rules that were being ignored behind my back.</p>
<p>Haha there is one hair dye stain on my bathroom wall that I am not going to tell my mom about! Hopefully she won’t find it until I leave for college! But see, that kind of thing is to me not the same as sneaking out at night. I think sneaking out is very dangerous whereas some red hair dye on the wall will require getting out the old paint bucket and repainting my bathroom which needs to be done anyway. Know what I mean?</p>
<p>Calmom- Your daughter sounds seriously just like me. The reason (well one of them) that I don’t lie to my parents is because I can’t lie for beans. My face turns red, I start sputtering, it’s a disaster. My sister on the other hand, is a kniving good little liar! Sometimes, I do not know whether it is my job to out her on her secrets. She is the younger one, plus she is as shy as I am outgoing, so people think I am think wild child and she is innocent. When in fact, I caused trouble at her age (think loitering outside the movie theatre and my mom knew I was there, but the cops didn’t like it very much) and she does the same, but my mom does not know. I don’t know why she feels the need to lie because it is not like with my friends where there parents are completely not understanding. One of my friends, she is almost 18, still gets grounded for turning in a paper late or having clothes on her floor. No offense to any parents who still do this, but I feel that at my age these things are my responsibility. </p>
<p>Now that I am older, she trusts me on things like this. Sometime last winter, she let me go to a concert with pneumonia because my fave band was breaking up and it was their last show. Someone literally poured a beer right down my shirt. I came home soaking wet (not good for my pneumonia!) and smelling horrible I am sure. She laughed at the whole scene! If I had been younger, and had not earned her trust, she probably would have been extremely mad.</p>
<p>As I said to nyc on a private message, putting kids in this situation (senior and freshperson) could end horribly, and I admit that. Just the same as trusting your kid to not really have a curfew, or letting your kid have a car, could all end up horribly. I am scared about how hard those decisions are going to be when I am a parent. I can barely decide what to yell at my little sister about, and she is not my child!</p>
<p>Calmom, like you I have very few rules - - especially regarding D’s dating and relationship w/ bf (fyi, he is her first bf, so these are unchartered waters). </p>
<p>Recently, D learned that many of her friends’ parents who don’t permit any boys above the first floor, or into the bedroom. In response, D remarked, “I guess my parents don’t have rules b/c I don’t have a lot of boys over.” A friend explained, “No, they don’t have rules, b/c they trust you.” D has never considered that fact, and was elated at having attained that level of trust - - and the envy of her peers. (I then had to explain to D that bf’s mom had many more house rules, not b/c she didn’t trust her son. Rather, she wanted to show us - - as the parents of the girl - - that she was making an effort to keep D safe, otherwise we wouldn’t let D visit at will).</p>
<p>On the other hand, I don’t believe that chrn sneak and lie b/c there are too many rules or rules are too strict. Chrn, like adults, lie and sneak to get their own way. One drives 65mph in a 55mph zone b/c she is in a hurry or thinks she is a good enough drive to handle the increased speed, not b/c the law is unfair. Just as D used a friend’s ID to ride the free college bus, not b/c it’s unfair that non-college-students pay, but b/c she’s a skin-flint. </p>
<p>And while using a fake ID to save a buck doesn’t bother me (though I did outline the consequence of getting caught), using the ID to go to a bar and drink is a punishable offense. As the parent, I set the limits. I am always happy to seek my 2Ds input, but once I have made the rule they are obliged to abide by it - - or suffer the consequences, especially since I don’t have a lot of rules (bf was surprised by how strictly I enforce the no-food-upstairs rule - - I’m more likely to be ban him from D’s room for eating Oreos on her bed than for lying on the bed in just his sweat pants).</p>
<p>nyc are you sure you are not my mother?
my mother has a SUPER strict no food upstairs policy and would ground me forever if i brought food up here!</p>
<p>Actually, I didn’t say that the kids lie & sneak because the parents are “too strict” – I said that the child lied and sneaked around because she didn’t want to abide by the rules set down. There’s a subtle difference, but its important: many kids agree with and are happy to abide by the rules their parents set down. In fact… if I think about it, I have lots of rules, it just seems like only a few because 99% of the rules are things that make perfect sense and no one would argue with. And I’m willing to listen if my daughter asks permission to do something new.</p>
<p>Kids will always rebel, but if parents set unrealistic rules it only makes it worse.</p>
<p>As you said in your private message to me nyc, if your kids trust you, they are more likely to tell you the “good stories.” It’s great to have a two way trust street!</p>
<p>calmom’s point is right, that sneaking around to disobey an unreasonable rule is different that sneaking around to disobey a reasonable rule</p>
<p>for my "friends’ daughter, she disobeys lots of reasonable rules, but her parents don’t follow through ie: “so you are going to the movies with Mary and spending the night there? Cool, let me call the mom and see if I can help with rides and check in…”, instead its fine, my D is so mature and grownup I trust her…</p>
<p>And who is to say what is unrealistic- some kids think ANY ruie is unreasonable/unrealistic- ie, calling to check in, actually staying where they said they would be, not going to Senior parties, etc</p>
<p>Sure, some rules are ridiculus, but I find with most parents I know the rules are pretty fair, yet the kids jsut say, why should I bother</p>
<p>And of course the girl is lying to not get caught, isn’t that why most kids lie?</p>
<p>UberLaure- you seem to be under the impression that kids only break bad rules, that is not the case, kids break reasonable rules all the time, and often the parents are fair, understand kids, and initially gave the kids the benefit of the doubt with rules, but had to tighten them as the kids went more and more wild</p>
<p>Wow can I relate to this. Last year was my senior year. Now I really really liked this freshman girl. Everything about her was awesome, and we got to know each other pretty well. I really wanted to take her to prom, but my buddy told me that I wouldn’t be able to because he knew her parents would interfere. So I didn’t go with her :-(</p>
<p>Looking back I wonder if that was a risk I should have taken…just hearing her name still makes me happy.</p>
<p>I think if her parents had met me they would have approved–I’m a pretty levelheaded guy and I wouldn’t do anything bad–I don’t drink and believe in waiting until marriage to have sex. No parent at my high school ever held a grudge against me.</p>
<p>Citygirlsmom-</p>
<p>I am sorry that I gave off that impression. My parents make very very reasonable rules and I follow them. Certainly all rules are not unreasonable (most aren’t) and kids break rules that are very very reasonable. I do not mean to make is sound any other way.</p>
<p>What was attempting to say, is that because I rarely find that my parents make a rule without backing it… for example I am not letting you drive to that place because it is a dangerous area, here’s money for a cab or you need to be home by 1 because you have to get up early tommorow (though I have to say that they have ceased this and have starting letting me decide how much sleep I need). So because of these explanations and rules that seem like they are just trying to protect me, not be control happy, I respect their rules much more so than I have noticed my friends’ doing with their parents who make a lot of unreasonable things. For example, my friend whose parents ground her for having clothes on her floor… Her curfew is 12 she comes back at 12 then sneaks out at 1. My parents give me a curfew dependent on what I am doing that night. If I am driving they worry more about safety and curfew is almost always 1. If I am going to a club or a concert and i am taking a taxi home ( I do this almost every weekend), curfew is almost always 1:30. If I am going to a party it’s usually 12 because they don’t want to pick me up any later and they certainly don’t want me driving.</p>
<p>That is all I am saying… sorry for the misunderstanding.</p>