Could your Frosh D date a senior?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Well said, calmom!</p>

<p>I’m actually puzzled by the entire discussion… My three kids (a girl and two boys) are in college now, and I never tried to tell them who they can and cannot date. They’ve always had friends of different ages, and I never thought that a 18 y.o. can not be interested in my 14 y.o. unless he is a loser. I don’t feel that such an interest should raise red flags or whatever… My 9-grader did go to prom with a 12-grader, and my college freshman has a friend who is a hs freshman… I don’t think that’s because he can’t “get” any other girls. Maybe I am being ignorant. Or maybe I just trust my children and their friends.</p>

<p>In the OP situation, I’d prefer to talk with the boy; but if the girl’s brother endorses him, that would be quite enough for me, actually. It’s just a school dance, for god’s sake!</p>

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<p>"Most Sr. wouldn’t want to chill with Frosh, cause they don’t have a lot in common, and Sr. are thinking about college, loans, driving, work, etc, while Frosh are dealing with teen dramas that most older kids have out grown</p>

<p>But that is my world in the city"</p>

<p>As I have stated previously, I tend to disagree with about 9 out of ten things you say, city mom, but that comment in particular i find completely inaccurate.
Sure, college freshmen and high school freshmen would be a ways apart. I honestly don’t know any former or current high school seniors who had outgrown all the teen drama. i mean they are in fact still in high school. there are people who are able to avoid it as freshmen and as seniors, its maturity not your grade or even age.
I know driving loans and work also did not cross make up a majority of the thoughts in my or my friends heads as seniors. I did drive, and I did know that loans and work were coming but most seniors are not consumed by these ideas. once they get out of high school the realities kick in and i think driving is more of a thought when you are first getting your permit and such as a junior, at least when my friends and i got ours. oh, and yes i went to high school in the city, and my friends who are still in high school do too. so your insinuation that its how you say in urban areas and all the suburbanites just dont know is offbase. you are only hearing a small fraction of the truth.</p>

<p>The last part made me laugh the most. Your world? You are a mother, not a teen. Most of the stories my mother heard in high school were the bad ones too. High schoolers dont gossip about who are working out so well together and who is doing so well in school, they gossip about sex, mischief, criminal activity, etc. It’s obviously not that common or it wouldnt be worthy of gossiping about.</p>

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<p>zmonkeytoe, unless your high school was dramatically different from any I’ve ever known, sex, mischief and criminal activity were very common activities. The stories come when people either get caught or get unlucky and bad things result from their actions (i.e. it isn’t a story when some friends get togather and get plastered, it is when one of them gets a DWI driving home afterwards). </p>

<p>emeraldkitty4: I’m much closer to a prep than goth - I wear polos and jeans, not wanna-be vampire outfits.</p>

<p>Calmom - as you said, when your d was a freshman a lot of what she and her friends talked about was who was hooking up with who. This is why freshman girls shouldn’t go to prom with seniors - they often seek validation through hooking up, especially with older guys (i.e. seniors). That’s why seniors usually ask freshman - its basically a guaranteed (albeit pathetic) hookup. Further, when I say that the senior will take advantage of the freshman, I don’t mean that he’ll physically rape her or even necesscarily get her drunk - I mean that he’ll exploit her probable insecurity/validation seeking and tell her what she wants to hear in order to get what he wants. The bottom line is that there are only 3 reasonably probable reasons a senior would ask a freshman - the senior wants to go as friends and is friends with the freshman (IMO unlikely, most senior guys don’t make friends with freshman girls, but possible), the senior is a loser and can’t get an older date (probably the most common reason I saw freshman girls get asked to prom), or the senior isn’t good with girls and wants to hook up on prom (close second to the “loser” reason).</p>

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<p>Okay, firstly, I was making fun of myself, but hey go at it</p>

<p>Second, I still stand by what I say, Srs and Frosh have little in common and if they do, I really wonder about Srs that still act like Frosh</p>

<p>What, they haven’t evolved or grown in those 4 years of high school</p>

<p>If my D thought that Frosh were fascinating and super interesting when they are Srs, i would wonder and be concerned about college. If a Sr boy is interested in a Frosh girl, as a parent, I would wonder what was wrong with him that girls his own age or closer weren’t interested</p>

<p>And, at my Ds latest dance, the quiet, “nerdy”, bookworm type guys somehow managed to get dates with girls their own ages, wow!!! So don’t give that baloney that the quiet ones can only deal with Frosh…that is a copout, what is going to magically happen in the six-eight month before college that hasnt’ happened in three years, sudden growth spurt of maturity?</p>

<p>There is hanging out, due to common pursuits, the play, the newspaper, voluteering, and then there is dating, and I think lucifer states clearly what I have been saying. If a 17 has so much in common with a 14 year old, I really wonder about that 17 year old? What kind of judgement does he/she have? What kind of maturity to make good decisions? Think about that. I still think a Sr and a Frosh’s dating relationship should be seen with a great deal of concern and caution</p>

<p>And what my Ds have told me, and their friends</p>

<p>Our school actively discourages underclassman from going to Proms, they have seen the problems that arise</p>

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<p>I’d be wary.</p>

<p>As a senior the only real contact I get with freshman is barking, “Move!” or “Get out of the way” at them in the hallways because they always seem to be chatting with their little friends and clogging up traffic and making me late for class. Therefore, it is very unusual for a senior to ask a freshman. You probably want to get to know him better before letting your daughter go.</p>

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<p>luci how many high schools have you known?
but what i meant was what you felt the need to explain fully. my high school had more pregnant girls than any in NY state.</p>

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<p>I have never, ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever met a guy who liked a much younger girl because they were interested in them. By “them” I mean not body or sex. Take it from a guy in high school/listen to Bob Saget.</p>

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<p>citygirlsmom, I really have to take issue with your opinion about age differences and kids having something in common. </p>

<p>My daughter has always had an easy time having conversations with adults, of any age, even when she was a small child. Because of that we have met the most interesting people when traveling, and used connections that my daughter made to get into some rather interesting places. Even as young as age 8 she would get involved in long conversations with young adults, middle-agers, even elderly people… and then kindly introduce the rest of the family. She always had a lot of friends her own age as well --but confided in me when she was younger that she felt somewhat frustrated because she always had to remind herself to tone down her vocabulary to avoid using words her friends didn’t understand. She enjoyed the company of her age-peers – she also always liked playing with or tending younger children - but she really didn’t feel she could have serious conversations with peers until she was in high school, and then as a freshman she sought out the company of juniors and seniors. She tends to make friends with her teachers and instructors as well. </p>

<p>I remember having similar difficulty relating to same-age kids when I was younger; when I was 14 I remember enjoying volunteering to work on a political campaign in part because I was working with adults and could relate to them much better than my same age peers. In high school I hung out with a group that included many college-age kids. I also found it easier to make friends with one of my teachers, a man in his 40’s, than with most kids my own age. </p>

<p>Now, of course I was labeled “gifted” as a child, as was my daughter – so naturally we were intellectually precocious, with more advanced vocabularies and sophisticated sets of interests than most our same age peers. But I think that a good deal of the participants on this board fall into the same category – I mean, all these kids who have gone to CTY or are National Merit finalists also are intellectual powerhouses, far more likely to be able to have an intellectually stimulating conversation with someone a few years older. </p>

<p>Now obviously when it comes to dating, there is more to it than intellectual discussion… except that with all my serious boyfriends and later my husband, things always started with TALK. First there were the long conversations about politics or whatever our shared interest was… the romance part came later after we had already gotten to know each other well. </p>

<p>So, especially on a board like this, I am troubled by the concept of consigning a 14 year old freshman girl to the category of someone necessarily too dumb or immature to interest a 17 year old boy. Maybe they are well matched simply because the 14 year old happens to be functioning on the same intellectual level as most high school seniors. </p>

<p>I realize that this is not a typical situation, but I assume that a large percentage of parents on this board have kids who are similarly somewhat out of sync with their age peers. Not all kids who are intellectually advanced have the emotional maturity to go along with it… but some do. So it makes no sense to me to generalize without knowing the individual kids.</p>

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<p>When my son was in 9th grade (14), all of his friends, both male and female, were seniors. He was in classes with most of them. He hung out with them, as intellectual peers, pretty much all the time. He went sailing regularly with one of them–a very nice young woman of almost-19. They’re all still friends. One of them is married and has a baby, even; the sailing companion is teaching snorkeling in Belize. </p>

<p>My son didn’t date until he was in college, however, because that was when he met girls his own age who could keep up with him intellectually. (That was one of the things that thrilled him about MIT.)</p>

<p>I’m back at my original advice: you all know your own children better than any one else. Go with your gut feeling on this one!</p>

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<p>We are talking about dating here, not intellectual discussions, and if a 17 finds normal 14 years intellectually stimulating, I still wonder about that 17 year old</p>

<p>You may have been really smart, and my Ds can hold a conversation with any adult, but I wouldn’t let them hang out alone with them, am I crazy? I mean, working on a campaign, which we have also done, is great, but my Ds wouldn’t be sitting with a male adult alone at 14, and most male adults I know would feel uncomfortable with hanging out with a 14 year old, cause, gee, mature adults have boundaries, I am not saying that there aren’t smart 14 year old girls, I never said that, what I am saying, is that if almost adult males find that normal 14 year olds is what they are interested in romantically, well, sorry, but I find that kind of concerning and I would wonder about that boy</p>

<p>For instance, if he can’t hold a conversation with girls his own age, well, what kind of 17 year old is he?</p>

<p>I don’t see anyone addressing the 17 year boy. I just see defending 14 year old girls, whiich is, fine, they can be as smart and as mature as can be, but even, me, a woman over 40, has to be wary and alert to certain situations</p>

<p>So, mom, you have no wonders about a 17 year old boy that can’t get girls his own age interested, that his maturity level is such that girls have said, no way, that his reputation is such, that girls his own age may say, no way</p>

<p>read the posts of others that agree with me, you seem to blow that off, though, and don’t address the issue of the boy himself</p>

<p>My 14 year old is very smart, very savvy, very clued in, but no way would I let her date a Sr boy. No matter what. To me, I wonder what is wrong with a boy that can only be interested in a child. I am not saying its just sex, but if people his own age are out of his range, well, I question his own level of maturity, if he is still at the emotional level of a Frosh, why would I want 17 year old who has not grown or changed emotionally in 3 year of HS?</p>

<p>Please addreess the questions of the boys, nad not just get all defensive about the girls</p>

<p>And there is a huge difference between book learned and intellecual smarts and emotional maturity, if you can’t see that, well…</p>

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<p>“Maybe they are well matched simply because the 14 year old happens o be functioning on the same intellectual level as most high school seniors.”</p>

<p>Do you see what you just said? Intellectual level? Please, so they can discuss physics, politics and poetry…if my D acted like a 17 year old at 14, I would tell her to slow down.</p>

<p>Pretending the intellectual maturity, emotional maturity are the same is being blind</p>

<p>I have seen the smartest students, the kids with the best grades, not be able to handle real life situations, if you think just because a girl or boy at 14 reads the Classics, speaks three languages, and can do physics can also handle an adult relationship with no experience, well, I disagree</p>

<p>Guess if you want your 14 year old to hang with an 18 year old and his friends, fine, but, me, only supervised activies</p>

<p>And if people keep thinking that intellectual maturity and emotional maturity are the same thing, than you are putting pressure on your kids</p>

<p>They are not emotionally at the level of an adult, and if you think they really are, then you think maturity only comes from learning, not time, and time and experiences are more important than any tests, grades or summer programs</p>

<p>My Ds have done CTY, Georgetown, acting, all with older kids, so they are exposed </p>

<p>I am surprised your mother let you hang out at 14 with college kids</p>

<p>Let alone your father</p>

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<p>People mature at different rates- doesn’t mean they are defective.</p>

<p>If I had a 14 year old who had friends that were 3 or 4 years older than her, if I knew them- I wouldn’t have any trouble with her going to a dance with them ( she did have seniors for friends freshman year- but they were girls from her track team- not boys)</p>

<p>Neither of my girls were terrifically interested in boys when they were freshmen- actually neither are still( not hot and heavy anyway)- one is gay and the other has the ideal of Ioan gryfudd for the sophomore boys to live up to.( much higher standards than when I was a teen- I had a boyfriend who looked like David Cassidy- but who would I pick now? David or Ioan?)</p>

<p>I expect that eventually my 15 year old will meet a boy she wants to go out with- but she really isn’t ready right now- thats what ponies are for :)</p>

<p>If she was a boy- and had reached the end of high school without really dating much, and had for some reason found a younger girl interesting, I wouldn’t be alarmed that he had some ulterior motive in dating her ( If I knew the girl of course), I would assume that they had some things in common and that the girl was more intriquing in some way, than the other girls in his class.
Girls do often mature faster, physically and emotionally than boys.
I had several boyfriends when I was in junior high, in 10th grade I started dating and getting serious pretty quickly- but my heaviest romance was with a 10th grade boy, who seemed to be much more sexually aware than others in the 10th gd- that was what made him more attractive .But it really depends on the boy, while I did go out with boys who were older, who did have ulterior motives, most of the circle of friends and aquaintances I had in high school, moved very fast, sex/drugs/alcohol wise.</p>

<p>Now with two daughters, one still in high school, I have gotten to know much different set of kids, and I wouldnt’ want to paint all of them with the same brush. </p>

<p>incidentally- at the risk of condemming parents who work 60+ hours a week, the kids who were most caught up in experimenting, had parents who weren’t home- so always talk to your kids friends and their parents, let them know you are interested- that you won’t judge them, but that you will get involved if needed. Teens really need just as much guidance as they did when they were 9, its just that it is mostly verbal, rather than redirecting their parachute off the roof( although there is a bit of that as well)</p>

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<p>I took a freshman to my formal when I was a senior. I don’t think you should worry about your daughter. Your son already verified he’s a good guy. If you don’t let her go because of the age difference, what does that communicate? It communicates that you don’t trust her and this can have devestating results. If you’re really worried just tell her your concerns before hand. </p>

<p>If you want to know whether or not you can trust the guy just meet him. Ask him if he wants to bang your daughter. If he’s honest and has integrity he’ll tell you the truth. If he gives you some BS answer…then that sucks but that means he’s probably a wimp so the chances of anything happening with your daughter would be slim.</p>

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<p>^^That is one of the funniest things I have ever read “ask him if he wants to bang your daughter”</p>

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<p>Citymom and Calmom I seriously LOL’D when I read your posts/</p>

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<p>EK, I have to say that the kids I have seen getting in difficult situations related to sex and relationships have parents that are either cluless or very controlling. The kids with the controlling parents (the ones who don’t allow them to date at all, or impose lots of restrictions) simply don’t tell their parents what is going on… and their parents end up in the “clueless” camp. Those parents seem to think they have protected their daughters by not allowing them to date or putting restrictions on whom they can date… and the daughters are simply meeting guys on the sly. </p>

<p>I agree with you that young teens do need guidance, but they will only come to a parent who they think they can trust and who is open to listening to their concerns. If a parent is going to throw a fit over an age difference when a 14 year old develops a crush on an older kid, then the kid won’t tell and the parent is going to be the last to know what is going on. </p>

<p>The main reason that this issue came up in this thread is that it involved a date to a formal dance – one in which the girl would need to buy a gown and the parents would tend to be involved in the process. Most teen dating is more casual - the kids go to a movie or to the beach or out for a meal or sit inside a parked car - and the girls whose parents don’t approve of their dating simply don’t tell the parents the truth about where they are going or who they are with.</p>

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<p>All the activities in H.S., from band, to sports, to debate, are multilevel. Freshmen and Seniors interact closely with, and spend lots of time with each other. Our debate team travels to other states, as does the band. These kids are bright and funny, and work/play well together. My kids have had close friendships with other male and female students, several years older and younger than themselves. And have learned much from this. </p>

<p>If I did not want my kids to hang out with students that were 3 years older, I would have had to ban them from doing the activities they loved.</p>

<p>Don’t we realize that kids can and will do whatever they want, without parents finding out, if necessary? Would you know if your precious 14-year-old gave a Senior a ** on the bus ride home from school?</p>

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<p>i hate this country</p>

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<p>as a female, and a senior, i can say that i have a lot of younger friends… and not everything is about “college, loans, driving, work, etc” i think it is so fun to chat with underclassmen b/c i can get away from those topics. i mean i hear about them everyday from my parents, teachers, senior friends, and my counselor. i need a break once in a while.</p>

<p>and on another note, when i was a freshmen, i was asked to prom by a senior. my parents allowed me to go because they trusted me. and i know some of you might say that girls are naive and can be persuaded into doing things they aren’t ready for… but my parents and i discussed it thoroughly, and i was not about to let any guy take advantage of me. but this could just be my personality, i am assertive and confident, so if i’m not comfortable with something, i let people know…</p>

<p>and now, i am so glad my parents let me go to that senior prom, b/c it showed that they trusted me and i trusted them more. (i would tell them if i was going to parties rather than lie and say i was going to study sessions b/c i knew they would trust me to make my own decisions)…</p>

<p>but truly, every child and every parent is different, so it’s really a familial decision.</p>

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<p>I have to say that the kids I have seen getting in difficult situations related to sex and relationships have parents that are either cluless or very controlling.</p>

<p>Well I was speaking from personal experience- from my group of friends in a nice suburb- we partied at each others houses- either during the day when we were supposed to be at school or on weekends. I would have noticed if there were any controlling parents around- true a few of the parents were trying hard to supervise, but they were pretty few and far between.
I wouldnt say those parents were clueless- but when you aren’t around because you are a single mom and you are working, and by the time your kids are teens you want to have a life of your own so you either hang out at your boyfriends house, or you have the kids over and let them do what ever they want pretty much, because you are too exhausted from your night shift nursing job to argue, we didn’t really see these parents as role models.</p>

<p>However- most of the time we stayed at friends houses where the parents were traveling- either for work or for pleasure- it was much nicer to party on the lake than to hang out in what a single mom could afford. they also had pretty well stocked liquor cabinets and sometimes we even found their um other paraphernalia.</p>

<p>Not alot of adult supervised activities, no parents trying to run teen dances, no after school activities except for sports( which my parents never came to)just not a lot of parent involvement- I don’t see parent involvement as controlling- it can be I suppose- but in my D school, we can’t do anything without the parents. We need them to chaperone dances, to supervise on field trips, to tutor kids during school and to raise money for team uniforms.
My daughter has participated on a soccer team for the last 6 years that is coached by parent volunteers. We may still be clueless as to what is going on with our kids- but we are there- and we are bound to pick up something!</p>