Could your Frosh D date a senior?

chocolateluvr88 · December 30, 2005, 9:28pm

I thought we were talking about a 3 year age difference here- so either a 14 yr old and a 17 yr old, or 15 and 18. So the boy isn’t a man. But, honestly, again speaking as a senior in high school…18 year old boys are NOT men and are NOT mature, even the most mature ones are usually less mature than girls. It is just a fact that males go through puberty later than girls and even at the end of high school are still maturing.

As I said, I agree that the boy should meet the parents standards. But for a freshman girl in high school, that’s true of any age boy, it has nothing to do with the fact that he is a senior.

At my school there are many couples across grades and these kids are never scrutinized. People have no problem with it. Maybe this varies school to school?

calmom · December 30, 2005, 9:38pm

My son went off to college at age 18 and came back looking younger. Maybe it was the long, shaggy purple hair. In any case, I barely recognized him at the airport… took me a while to realize that the young kid who came off the plane was mine.

In any case, I don’t think he transformed from kid into adult until he started working to support himself at age 20. Then the change was very rapid and monumental.

On the other hand, when my 16 year old daughter returned from 4 months overseas, I was taken aback to realize that the poised, mature twenty-something young woman coming off the escalator into the baggage claim area was in fact my child. Kind of like when Audrey Hepburn comes home from France in the movie Sabrina. (Speaking of May/December romances… how come no one worried about Sabrina and Gigi dating older men when they were barely out of their teens? Wasn’t Gigi supposed to be 16?)

ec1234 · December 31, 2005, 2:53am

i think a lot of it depends on the size of the highschool. My highschool (public suburban) was pretty small, so most people atleast recognized everyone at the school. It wasnt unusual for freshmen and seniors to hang out together, even down to eigth grade. At my senior prom, there was definately a good percentage of freshmen and sophomores as guy’s dates, but very few of them were because the guys couldnt get dates in their own grade, but rather because they were friends and its more fun if the whole group is there. I could see why at a really large school the interaction between the grades might not be as much and so it would be more akward

zmonkeytoe · December 31, 2005, 3:19am

well my school was very large and there was quite a bit of cross grade interaction. so i think it depends school to school but not necessarily due to size. i think more likely it has to do with the community in which that school exists.

i tend to agree with calmom on pretty much all her points. as a young man, who has been 18, i think she is spot on. i dont know how gatordan or his friends choose whom to date or ask to prom, but my friends and i did not pick girls we thought would just be an easy lay. so maybe we did not have deep philosophical discussions at prom but we were having fun, not just biding time until we could try and get her into bed.

i find most of what citygirlsmom says to be pretty far off base, which i think i can argue seeing as i would assume from her name that she was in high school a bit longer ago than i. yes, there are sketchy senior guys who try and get the young and naive to have sex with them. is this the majority of guys? no. not even close. most guys are just as disgusted by it as girls, even if they dont say so to keep up their macho reputation.
this idea that he only asks a freshmen because he cant get someone his own age is ludicrous. now the youngest person ive ever dated was only six months younger than myself but this isnt because i set some arbitrary age limit. i just judge each individual person on their merits, which is how, i assume, most people operate. ive dated people 14 years apart and it never had anything to do with age. it was not because i could not date someone in my year, it was because i found more interesting attractive people elsewhere.

just in the last month or so in my area, two high school males in separate incidents were charged with sex crimes. one on a twenty something woman and the other on two high school girls, one clearly consensual but statutory rape under NY law and the other he is arguing was consensual as well and the girl had reached the age of consent. so i clearly recognize that there are dangerous young men out there but there are dangerous old men too. dangerous freshmen. dangerous sophomores. dangerous juniors and dangerous seniors. yea, you should be careful of whom you allow your young daughter to date but just because they are closer to her age does not mean they are safer.

lucifer11287 · December 31, 2005, 5:30am

zmonkeytoe, get real. Most senior guys who go after freshman girls want nothing more than sex. You can try to dance around that as much as you want, but it is the basic truth - freshman in HS are essentially useless people the vast majority of the time, and there are few to no seniors who would ever seriously want to go with them because of what kind of people they are.

pyewacket · December 31, 2005, 7:20am

<<… really, really irks me is this stereotyped view of boys as being only out for sex or to use girls … along with some hackneyed view of 14 year old girls as being naive and innocent. Am I the only parent posting who has both a daughter and a son? I can assure you that my son is not and never has been a budding rapist, and my daughter is not and never has been an easy target for unwanted male advances. He respects the word “no”, she’d fight like crazy. She’s tough and sophisticated, he’s an intellectual who is probably somewhat shy around the ladies. I’m tired of seeing boys maligned as if they are all testosterone-driven gorillas - especially on an academically oriented forum where most of us have sons who are serious and responsible students.>>

calmom, that’s why the response depends on the individuals involved, but as the mother of a girl and someone with 60s experience–I still feel that even intelligent, hardworking, responsible and really nice boys of 17-20 can still be testosterone-driven on occasion and lack the maturity and experience to handle their drives as responsibly as the mothers of girls might wish. girls vary a lot in their maturity too.

alongfortheride · December 31, 2005, 8:17am

Calmom, nicely put.

citygirlsmom · December 31, 2005, 12:21pm

My Ds are giving me a lot of the information I am sharing, I guess you don’t trust a 14 and 16 year old who are smack dab in the middle of all this

This is what they see, what they hear, what they know from their own high school

We all have our own eperiences, but I still contend that flags should be raised, at a minimum, when a Sr boy wants to date a Frosh girl. If you don’t care enough to at least wonder, what can I say

I care enoug because my Ds have told me what they have been told

I once told my D, watch for the Jr boys who go after Frosh girls, cause you may be flattered, but at least be very careful of their attentions and intentions. She blew me off.

Two weeks later a Soph girl told her the exact same thing, and told er stories of Frosh girls who fell into the trap. It only takes a couple of Sr boys, but when you are a Frosh, and are new to the school, don’t know the reputations of the older kids, don’t have all the details, you may make bad choices, thinking, who, I am great, a Sr boy likes me

WHen you are a Soph, you know the kids, you aren’t so blinded by the attention, you aren’t so impressed

I stand by what I said, and this is coming from my Ds, who are very straight with me

And, a girl can be “mature”, but not able to handle situations the may be thrown into, so as my D said, why take the chance, guys who go for Frosh don’t have great reps all around, so its best to stay away until as a soph, yu have all the dirt

I really don’t care if you disagree with me, my Ds opinions matter more, and their stories, and their judgements and their friends are much more

My nephew tell me the same things about his school, Sr guys that date Frosh girls have certain reps, as do the girls

See Frosh girls are unknown, and it is easy to get bad reps even if you aren’t doing anything, but if you are hanging with older boys, who want to be seen a certain way, well, you get the fallout

This isn’t most boys, but as I said before, what we see as nice, is really different from what highschooles see as nice

THe kids in the video that was made were all “nice” boys, even the one making the video, the one hiding in the closet, the one who walked in and enjoyed the show, all seen as 'Nice boys",

So when a boy says, oh he is a nice boy, often the truth is hidden, or behvior we would see as gross, isn’t seen that way by HSers

I mean, I see freak dancing as blechy, but both my Ds, while not really partaking, don’t have any real issues with it, I call it dry humping, they call it dancing, they don’t do it themselves, and when they tell me that, I know its true, but when the guys are up getting lap dances, those are Nice Boys

I just think we shouldn’t be so casual and think what we see is what we get, Eddie Haskell comes to mind

ANd btw these are both great schools with great kids, and the schools both are very watchful, but as a mom, I was proud when my D came to me and said, mom remember when you told me to be watchful of Jr and Sr boys when I was a Frosh, well my friend just told me the same thing!!! Hate to say, but sorry for blowing you off

mstee · December 31, 2005, 2:13pm

Here is what I, (an overprotective mom?) did when my D went on her first “date” (winter ball) last year. She was a sophomore, he a junior with a car. --Does the thought of jr. and sr. boys driving their daughters places in cars make anyone else as uneasy as it does me?

I told her he had to come in so we could meet him. She didn’t want us to meet him, because we are soooo embarrassing. But he was fine with it and seemed to be a nice lad. We took a mug shot of him (just kidding, but we did take pictures). Still, though, since I didn’t know him or his family prior to this date, I told D her cell phone had to be on and she had to answer it if I should choose to call. I also told her she had to come straight home from the ball. I also gave her $50 just in case she needed to take a cab home. She told her date “My mom gave me money to take a cab home because she thinks you are gonna get drunk and not be able to drive me home.” Whatever . . . it made me feel better, anyway. He didn’t do anything he shouldn’t have. D has been going out with this kid for almost a year now. I like him very much. But I still tell her her cell phone has to be on and I will call it if she isn’t home when she says she is going to be–just like I expect it to be when she somewhere with a girlfriend.

I don’t know if I would have let her out of the house as a freshman with a Sr. boy I didn’t know, but definitely would have set these same rules. My D was warned as a freshman by one of her high school teachers to be very suspicious of attention from Sr. boys, because some of the older boys (at this private catholic school) have been known to take advantage of naive younger girls. I think it is a good thing for girls to be aware of. My D seemed to take this warning much more seriously coming from one of her teachers than she would have if I had said anything.

chocolateluvr88 · December 31, 2005, 2:51pm

citygirlsmom- "I really don’t care if you disagree with me, my Ds opinions matter more, and their stories, and their judgements and their friends are much more

My nephew tell me the same things about his school, Sr guys that date Frosh girls have certain reps, as do the girls "

And that’s fine. You can not allow your girls to date older boys. But, I think it is completely unfair to say that the opinions of a few people from 2 schools represents everyone.

First of all, I was not at all concerned about ruining my reputation by hanging out with older guys as a freshman. I did not even go to the same middle school as everyone else at my high school, I was at a magnet program, so barely anyone “knew” me. But, this may have been due to the fact that soon after enterring the school and before I had many friends, I was known as a smart kid. And the reputations of smart kid and whore don’t mix. Because, the fact of the matter is that girls that get the reputation of whore only earn that reputation from the popular girls because they are seen as competition. (This is how it is at my school, at least).

Another thing about my school is that it is much more common for two people of completely different ages to hang out than two of completely different social groups. So, it’s hard to find a nerd hanging out with a punk, but there are plenty of freshman nerds hanging out with senior nerds.

You can not tell me that the experiences of your daughters are any more real or reasonable than my experiences. I think this really varies school-to-school and person-to-person.

I don’t see what the harm would be in meeting the potential date and seeing what he’s like.

citygirlsmom · December 31, 2005, 3:29pm

Because, as I stated, remember Eddie Haskell, and remember that what we would find, as adults, icky behavior, teens think is okay

I am not judging all SRs the same, I am just saying that a parent and a girl should be aware

It is interesting how defensive everyone is and I must say, kind of oblivious to the teen world

A soph girl is very different from a frosh girl

I knew a frosh girl, who was so flattered by the attentions of a sr boy she did some stupid things she never would have done- drinking, sex, skipping school

I am not saying all frosh sr relationships would be a nightmare, I am just saying that extra scrutiny, questions, research should be done when it comes to a sr boy asking out a frosh

Hanging out is very different from dating, and we all know it

I have heard of more problems with girls dating older boys than not, and so why not be more mindful, instead of, well, you haven’t ever been in an accident so you don’t need to wear a seat belt

I trust my Ds judgements, and their friends are very open with me

Great you haven’t heard the stories I have, but they are there

My older D and younger D have totally different friends they hang with, boys and girls, it is fine if they run into each other, and the older kids are always nice to the younger one, but to hang out at a cafe with Srs as a Frosh, what do they talk about?

citygirlsmom · December 31, 2005, 3:35pm

And those Jr Sr boys are interested in girls their own age, and when orif one is interested in a Frosh girl, its kind of skanky, this according to my Ds and their friends

But I guess I am more curious about 17 year olds wanting to be with 14 year olds, but guess that is just me

When I drive around both sets of Ds friends, the stories I hear are great, but very different, and the discussions about boys are also very different, but perhaps the difference of Jr Sr boys at the schools I hear about are more pronounced than at others schools

Most Sr. wouldn’t want to chill with Frosh, cause they don’t have a lot in common, and Sr. are thinking about college, loans, driving, work, etc, while Frosh are dealing with teen dramas that most older kids have out grown

But that is my world in the city

chocolateluvr88 · December 31, 2005, 3:38pm

I am not oblivious to the teen world. I am a teen.

I agree with extra scrutiny and said that the parents should meet this date.

“but to hang out at a cafe with Srs as a Frosh, what do they talk about?”
Anything and everything. We were discussing the innocence of freshmen a page or two back, and decided this varied school by school, but that most freshmen are already exposed to drugs, sex, and drinking. It’s not like they are living in a completely different world. They can discuss politics, boys, video games, movies, music, good/bad teachers (awesome topic of conversation), etc.

dmk092 · December 31, 2005, 3:39pm

As a male high school senior, I would warn against it.
My Economics teacher likes to make the joke,“The only people who go to prom are seniors and freshmen”.

(In our school, underclassmen aren’t allowed to go to prom unless their someone’s date;))

Elleneast · December 31, 2005, 3:42pm

In a word…No.

mstee · December 31, 2005, 3:42pm

At the very least, it would be a good idea to invite Sr. boy to dinner with the freshman girl’s family before the big date to get a feeling for what the boy is like. IMO.

I do know one freshman girl who went out on a few dates with a senior guy. Their common bond was theater. He was a perfect gentleman, according to her, but they broke up after a short time because she was, in his opinion kind of “immature.” Her attitude was “geez, what does he expect, I’m 14!”

calmom · December 31, 2005, 3:53pm

I can assure you, Lucifer, I would never let my daughter go out with you, at any age. I wouldn’t let my son anywhere near you either. You give me the creeps.

Then again, what should I expect from someone who calls himself “Lucifer”?

chocolateluvr88 · December 31, 2005, 4:16pm

Haha, applauds to calmom for that one.

emeraldkity4 · December 31, 2005, 4:18pm

I imagine that “lucifer” fashions himself to be a goth- which reminds me of what one of Ds profs once commented to the goth students in his class “what will you dress in for Halloween? Laura Ashley?”

calmom · December 31, 2005, 4:47pm

citygirlsmom, I for one am not “defensive” but I find your posts “offensive” in the degree of stereotypes. As I have said, I am the mother of a son… you obviously are not or you would have a very different view. My son is 5 years older than my daughter, so I had all of the experiences of raising a boy, including getting to know his friends and their moms and pretty much dealing with son-raising issues from birth to age 22.

My guess from your comments is that your girls don’t date yet. That’s OK - you said they were only 14 and 16, and you are very conservative in your parenting style, so I certainly wouldn’t expect that you would allow your girls to date early – but again you seem to be speaking more from what you have heard than what you or your daughters have actually experienced.

Now I will admit that my son was the nerdy intellectual type who hung out with a mixed group of girls and boys in high school who were all in his AP classes. Not exactly what I would call a rough crowd.

But I am also the mother of a daughter, now 17, and with the experience of raising a girl and being among her friends and seeing them all from toddlerhood through late teens… I can say very assuredly that girls have sex on the brain way before the guys do. From age 9 on up my d’s room was plastered with posters of bare chested male film idols, until she pulled that all down over the past summer to replace them with framed photos of her with her boyfriend. I would characterize my daughter’s attitude toward males since the age of about 5 as being “obsessed.”

My son’s room was decorated with Dali prints.

When my daughter was 14 and in high school I’d drive the girls around, and the basic tenor of the conversation was about which girls were giving blow jobs to whom. When my son was that age, the only girl he thought about was Lara Croft in Tomb Raider.

You are entitled to your opinions, but again I find the stereotypes about males offensive. I remember back when I was in middle school the girls always talked about watching out for the boys - I went with my best friend to meet some guys at a movie when we were about 12 and she gave me dire warnings about what the guys would try to do, and nothing happened. All talk, no action. Not even hand holding. From what I see of the high school dating scene, what kids of both sexes hope will happen or what they talk about doing is a far cry from what is really happening most of the time.

And as I have said above, when they do get around to sex, it tends not to be on a night when the guy is dressed in a tuxedo. From real life experience, I know that the time parents ought to be worrying is when the girl has gone over to the guy’s house to hang out and “study”.

Could your Frosh D date a senior?

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