<p>“You live under my house, you follow my rules.” It’s a very common expression, and it seems like most parents agree with this, but I don’t understand it. According to my background, kids do what their parents say, because their parents want what’s best for them and love them. Now, obviously, this is part of the reason why kids obey parents for all families. Yet it seems like when the kid leaves the house or when a kid turns 18, the parents automatically get less of a say with some families (I’m tempted to say white families, but I don’t want to make too great a generalization).
I just feel like financial standing or an arbitrary age shouldn’t determine how much involvement parents have in their kids’ lives. Parents should know their children well enough to decide that for themselves.</p>
<p>I am not sure what you are getting at?
Many parents explain why some things might be best for their kids, and hope the kids follow their guidance, but I do not know of anyone who has outright control of another person because they say so. Kids who are defiant are probably the least likely to conform to the strictest rules. Some parents use fear or rigid rules to control their children, but it’s better if kids understand why some rules are to their advantage than force them into being followed. There are many personalities in all families and some kids are easier to parent than others and some kids are not as mature and may be more impulsive. Kids learn and grow from parental guidance AND by making their own decisions and living with consequences of those decisions. The best you can do is to discuss things, set expectations/boundaries and hope for the best.
Every experience (good or bad) is a teachable moment and experiences can be the best teachers.</p>
<p>I’m not a parent, but as a young adult who lived with my parents not so long ago, I always interpreted it as this: </p>
<p>While I lived with my parents as a minor, I listened to my parents because I thought they wanted what was best for me, but also because in the end it wasn’t a debate. I could argue or protest, and they would debate, but in the end if I disobeyed them I knew I would have to contend with some sort of punishment in return that would make this disobedience less worth it. </p>
<p>Now as not a minor, and furthermore a not-minor who is financially independent, I still listen to my parents because I think they want what’s best for me, but now the final call is mine and it would be unreasonable for them, in most cases, to use coercive measures to change my mind. But it would be unreasonable for me to discount their opinions entirely as well.</p>
<p>In sum, in my particular case, I think the difference is not how much of a say my parents have in my life, which is still a lot, but rather whether I am expected to surrender my prerogative to make my own choices in some matters. </p>
<p>Also this division wasn’t always at 18 for all issues. When I was 14 my parents might have ordered me to be abstinent come hell or high water, whereas at 17 my parents were less inclined to micromanage my relationships. But I also think “order” is a poor way to put it because my parents never had rules that they didn’t fairly explain or give me input in.</p>
<p>I have never used that line with my kids (my house, my rules). I have also never had to ground any of my kids. When they were younger, they were occasionally sent to their room if they were disrespectful. If my high school D wants to go out on an evening, I may remind her how much work she has to do, but let her make her own decision, and the consequences are obviously hers also. She did not have a close group of friends the first few years of high school and had little social events, so I am glad she now has that! If my children did something that disappointed me, I let them know that too. I don’t expect them to do what I say at this age level, but I give plenty of advice. They often follow it, but I expect them to be fairly independent after 16 in decision making.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what your question is…are you questioning how when kids leave home at ages 18-22, their parents become less involved in their lives?</p>
<p>I think in most normal, healthy family situations, kids distance themselves in the early years after leaving the nest because they want to be independent and stand on their own- they don’t want mommy and daddy to hold their hands. </p>
<p>Also, what do you mean by ‘involvement’? The point of parenting is to bring your kid up to stand for themselves- if I ever had a 25 year old kid, I wouldn’t want them to call me up from 300 miles away and ask if he/she could go to dinner with some friends tonight.</p>
<p>^Of course kids have to stand on their own two feet and become more independent eventually. I understand that. But it’s when I hear things like “you’re in college now, you don’t need you parents’ permission” that I don’t understand. It seems like an arbitrary point in one’s life to me. Whether the time parents start letting go of their kids be before college or after college, it shouldn’t be based on the kids’ turning 18 years old or going to college overnight, it should be based on how ready the parent thinks the child is, regardless of cultural borderlines.</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies. It’s nice seeing the different views.</p>
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<p>Even in the legal realm in the US, “adulthood” does not all come at one’s 18th birthday.</p>
<p>16 = usually when you can get a driver’s license
18 = vote, sign contracts
21 = usually when you can buy or possess alcoholic beverages
24 = when you are considered financially independent for college financial aid purposes
varies = age of consent</p>
<p>"“you’re in college now, you don’t need you parents’ permission”"</p>
<p>Well, permission for what? Let’s go back to the going out with friends example- if a person lives in a dorm in college, why should they ask their parents? The person is an adult, and the parents have probably spent enough time emphasizing safety and responsibility matters in the child’s formative years.</p>
<p>ALSO, “it should be based on how ready the parent thinks the child is, regardless of cultural borderlines”…that’s impossible for the sole fact that by their young adult years, kids move more with their social group than with their parents- everyone needs to become independent by some arbitrary age, or they won’t be able to function along with their peers. </p>
<p>Not to mention, people aren’t just sent off to college newly independent. Like, maybe after 8th grade, a parent doesn’t care about meeting their kids’ friends’ parents before letting those kids hang out together. Maybe by 10th grade, as long as a kid sends a text to their parents saying they’ll be out for a while, everything will be good as long as said kid returns home by 8. Everyone steadily gets new privileges throughout their life.</p>
<p>"Everyone steadily gets new privileges throughout their life. "</p>
<p>This, combined with the legal realities that kids can do certain things at certain ages, AND whether they are living at home beyond age 18 and have an agreement with you.</p>
<p>It would be just silly, for example, for me to tell my 23 yo independently supporting, not-living-at-home daughter what she can and cannot do. She can and does call me for advice, I offer it, knowing that she is free to ignore me because she is an adult in every respect. Often she listens to me. Sometimes she doesn’t As an adult she gets that option.</p>
<p>My 13 yo, though, is not legally free to make any decisions, cannot support herself, cannot drive, and relies on her dad and I for everything. So, pretty much what we say goes, but since she IS about to start high school in a few months, she has the right to ask for certain rules to be expanded or changed. Sometimes we agree, other times we say “no”.</p>
<p>If what you’re saying is that even though at 18 in the US young adults can legally make most any decision they must still “do as they’re told” in all cases, well, no. They don’t. They can move out and do whatever they want to do because in this country, they have that legal right. </p>
<p>You’ve seen on this board some parents who control their legally adult children through money used to pay for their college-that is the price they’ve accepted for getting help with their tuition. But they can ALWAYS leave home if they decide they don’t want those ties. It’s a fine line though, because I don’t think a young adult has the right to walk all over their parents-respect should go both ways, and sometimes that means following some rules.</p>
<p>I’ve had over-21 kids living with me. We’ve asked that they keep us up one where they’ll be if they leave town, that they keep their area clean (basement rooms), that they pay rent, that nothing illegal is brought into or is done in our house. They’re free to leave if they disagree.</p>
<p>But I wouldn’t tell one of them they couldn’t stay out past a certain time, couldn’t date a certain person, or ground them. They’re adults. That’s how most people that I know do things, regardless of race.</p>
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When a child becomes an adult, or becomes autonomous to the point where they are living apart from their parents- they are actually making the bulk of the decisions regarding how they spend their time/ health etc. ( generally in American culture- unless there are significant health concerns that require more support, whether that be mental or physical)</p>
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<p>Actually if the child is an adult, the child is assumed to be ready regardless of the parents opinion.</p>
<p>For parents who have taken the (easy way out - IMO) and tightly controlled the bulk of the decisions throughout their childs life, the above may be terrifying, because they cant imagine that their adult child has the intelligence or thoughtfulness required to make important choices and they want to continue to make those decisions for their children- even though that is telling the adult child you dont trust their judgement or value their independence from you.</p>
<p>Which is why I think it is valuable to allow children to make decisions starting from babyhood with increasing amount of responsibility so that by the time they are an adult, they have had experience in managing consequences of their decisions & they have learned to trust themselves and value their own opinion.</p>
<p>It may be cultural, but it also may be determined in part by personality and experience. My parents, who were very young when I was born, provided very little guidance for me over the years. As a result, I don’t actually find it comforting when my child calls me because she can’t decide about something minor; it worries me no end.</p>
<p>I’m not really sure what you’re getting at. I come from a pretty “white” family (dad’s white, mom’s multiracial but “passes” for white). I’ve never heard anything along the lines of “under my roof blah, blah, blah” from my parents because they don’t think that way. In our family, we love and support rather than try to control each other. We’re not typical though. I don’t need threats from my parents to seek their advice. I do it because they’re two of the smartest people I know. They also come to me for advice all the time. </p>
<p>Of course when you leave the house your parents get less say. That’s just common sense. When you’re at college, you’re not going to call to see if you can go to the movies with your friends.</p>
<p>In my personal case, with my parents, this never came up with any of my siblings or for myself, because we were sensitive to my parents feelings and how they wanted to live. If we were indulging in activities that would bother them, we tended to keep them to ourselves.</p>
<p>It was an outrageous slap in my face, that my kids have no compunction in throwing such courtesies to DH and myself to the wind. The fact of the matter is that I am a 60 year old mom, and if I went out and didn’t tell people at the house where I was going and did not come back at a reasonable hour, the frigging National Guard, police, FBI would be called on me. If I visit with friends, I tell them my plans, as to where I am going, who I am seeing, what I am doing and when I’ll be back A lot of the problems that occur are when simple courtesies are not kept up.</p>
<p>My one son was staying with a number of friends for several months, and felt it was too much trouble to let us know where he was staying, with whom, and when, or giving us a contact number. Then I got a call that his cell phone was found. They tend to call “mom” when that happens in the contacts, and I had no idea how to get ahold of him. We have two grandmoms in their late 80s living here, and they really can pass anytime. With a large family, any kind of catastrophe can happen, and scurrying to find the family member who doesn’t want to simply keep a point person apprised as to where he is, is a problem. </p>
<p>As far as I am concerned, if you are living in someone’s pocket book or out of their wallets/bank accounts, and they make conditions, you can take it or leave it. Why should anyone have to subsidize or pay for something that they do not want? While one has kids, minors, there is that obligation until age 18, but even then, there are rules that kids have to obey or there are consequences. Once a child is an adult, if s/he is an unwelcome guest, then s/he can find another place to live.</p>
<p>It’s not just the family members subject to these rules. Though I might put up with some breaches from short term guests, I’m not going to have those who are unwelcome guests around for the long term. And even with them, I have some steadfast rules. Absolutely no smoking, no illegal drugs, guns. I find any contraband or catch activities I feel are offensive, then that’s it for that person. The welcome mat is rolled up. With my kids, it’s not as straight forward, as there are discussions, arguments and a lot of “chances” given, so they get a lot more than those not so related to me.</p>
<p>Also, the pendulum swings both ways. I was not welcome at my son’s house where he lived at college And though I subsidized the payment, I did not push the matter. I felt there was probably good reason why I was banned. Just looking at the outside of the place, I could have some idea why mom wasn’t a welcome guest there.</p>
<p>My ex husband, while we were dating, moved to another city and didn’t tell his parents. This was before cell phones, and when you moved you also got a new phone number, so his family had no idea where he was. Had I not made him call, who knows how long it would have been until he told them.</p>
<p>That was a huge red flag I ignored-it turned out that he had some serious issues with his parents, and that those issues would go on to control his behavior throughout or marriage and how he related to me. He would later leave, blaming it all on me. His father died before he had enough therapy to understand some of the problem was him.</p>
<p>Kids don’t grow up all happy and well and then disappear without telling their family. Someone somewhere along the line got some signals crossed.</p>
<p>And romani, I think the OP means that white parents are the ones who do NOT enforce rules with their adult kids, but I could be wrong.</p>
<p>Oops, you might be right ssea. Too early in the morning ;)</p>
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<p>Actually, it’s “You live under my roof” or “You live in my house.”</p>
<p>Living under the house could be unpleasant.</p>
<p>"Parents should know their children well enough to decide that for themselves. "</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s the parent’s decision at all. Part of becoming an adult is becoming responsible for your own life, even if it means making mistakes, and not ‘obeying’ your parents, because they are supposedly this all-knowing being that know what’s best for their kid. Kids and parents can have differents goals, views, and even values, and I think the biggest gift a parent can give their child is letting go.</p>
<p>Also, no matter what the culture is (and I have known very closely some people from cultures that you talk about) simply won’t go along with it, even if that’s how they were raised. They want to be in charge of their own life, and I say good for them!</p>
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<p>Young people also reach a stage where parents may not be able to help with some aspects of their lives, even if the young person wants advice/assistance, because the parents don’t have the knowledge. </p>
<p>For example, my second child went into the workforce right after college and hunted for a job through on-campus recruiting. My husband and I – and also our first child – all went to graduate programs of one sort or another immediately after college. None of us was able to provide much advice to the job hunter (who, despite the lack of parental guidance, had a good job for after graduation lined up before Thanksgiving of senior year).</p>
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<p>Who says parents know what’s best for their kids? The kid may not know what’s best for him/herself either, but at some point the parents and kids become separate individuals. </p>
<p>We eventually have to draw the arbitrary line between childhood and adulthood somewhere. College is often considered a time and place where kids move away from home and learn to live/develop their own independent lives. You choose which classes to take, what internships to do, in the same way that you eat and go to the bathroom without your parents’ permission. If your parents have experiences that could help you with a particular problem, then there’s nothing wrong with asking for advice. </p>
<p>Many college students are still financially dependent on their parents. In practice, parents still have a lot of say in what their kids do up through college. Kind of similar to “my house, my rules.” Like it or not, you can’t bite the hand that’s feeding you. </p>
<p>I think parents have a duty to guide their kids without controlling them. Back in college I would see kids who pursued their parents’ dreams instead of their own, and quite frankly they seem quite miserable now. Nice, stable job and everything, but for what? You won’t achieve any of your aspirations by merely doing as your parents say, in the same way that you aren’t going to make new discoveries in science, art, or what have you simply by obeying some authority. </p>
<p>Have you ever seen the movie Dead Poets Society? It is a great movie and somewhat relevant to this discussion.</p>