@almostdonemom How can it be a choice if the only way a student can enroll at CWRU is to wait a year?
The students on the waitlist were not told it was a waitlist for a gap year plan as far as I know. Correct me if I have misunderstood something. I might have misunderstood what is being discussed and I apologize if I have.
To me its a bait and switch. Get on a waitlist for fall 2018 and end up getting admitted for Fall 2019 !
Most students plan gap years. Its already May 5, kind of late to plan it.
And I am a big Case fan. I am so upset about this, I am calling Case Western on Monday, I will not donate money
if its a bait and switch admissions plan. I will not recommend CWRU anymore. Its a total deal breaker for me, and my kid already graduated from CWRU. I would be furious at the bait and switch.
Sorry to be so negative but I am sure this will put a lot of kids at risk. Its not a good plan to wander around Europe. I donât care what Harvard says. Many students get lost in the gap year. Its also VERY EXPENSIVE for a child to take a gap year, it costs a lot of money to wander Europe, or save orphans in Africa. Its BS. in my mind. A total bait and switch. Wow, I am so terribly disappointed in CWRU.
, Case is still a very good school, but its imitating Harvardâs" Z List." If you read that Harvard Crimson News article about Harvard it says the Z list kids from last year take the Z list kids beds from this year, so its a zero sum game they are playing. 50 Z list kids every year. If they somehow get rid of the Z list, they could just admit that number in the year they apply!!! Its just a very odd game if you ask me, but since Harvard plays , apparently CWRU is trying to look like Harvard? I feel terrible, as I have recommended Case to a number of fine students and they keep getting waitlisted. I donât believe visiting the campus helps anymore, but i donât know for sure. Having a sibling at Case helps. It still is an excellent school. Sorry to go off an a rant, but I was pretty shocked at this Z list stuff. . For those that choose Case from whatever list, it will be a good experience, I believe. Case has a high national rank, so its not a regional university, at least by US News definitions of rank.
It would be fine if they warned students âWaitlist may result in Z Listâ. Maybe they did warn students, I will have to ask an applicant who got waitlisted.
What other options does CWRU have if they are over-enrolling this cycle?
It is possible some of the CW committed students are being WLâd by the top choices and IF they were accepted by those then it would create some movement in the CW WL Maybe there will be a summer melt, but who knows.
I know schools sending kids to ex-US sites to do their 1st yr studies. I know schools accepting kids for the Spring term. I know schools with guarantee transfer.
I am a UChicago alum, and when UC did the Z-list the 1st time in 2012, it wasnât a popular option and some âlegacyâ kids were affected. There was a certain level of unhappiness among alums that year and guess what, UC has done Z-list every year since.
This Gap-year option is not for everyone for sure. If that was offered to us, I would say no to it. Time is precious, there no time to waste. I can understand the gap year approach between UG and Grad, but this gap-year option definitely not optimal. This is a tough choice for families, no doubt.
Maybe CW should just decline 95%+ of the current WL file. keep the remaining 5% and let those students know odds to get in this cycle are minimal blah blah, nonetheless, if the kids are interested, they can remain on the list and hope for the best.
CWRU and Harvard both have the option of rejecting students. To keep things simple, thats how the world used to work. I am still astounded about the Z list at Harvard. The vast majority of US colleges do not offer Z lists. (forced gap years) to waitlisted students. Its a game that they do not have to play and it makes it much more complicated for parents and students applying to college. In my mind its a weak reason to cross off and not even bother to apply to Harvard and CWRU and any other âZ listâ school. Its just 50 less seats available and given that CWRU offers round 1 and round 2 ED, it really leaves very few seats available. Its a huge mistake I believe, but thats me. Remember , schools save space for first generation college, for URM, for Z list !!, for athletes, for ED1 and ED2. Does that leave a seat for your child? Maybe not! Cross it right off then, and donât apply.
@Coloradomama âDoes that leave a seat for your child?â - thatâs the reality for the non-legacy, non-athlete. non-URM, non-FG applicants (maybe 30% spots available for 85% of total application pool). I was in multiple receptions during college visits, as much as the AOs like to paint a great picture, the truth is the system is biased against those not in the specific demographic groups of interest. Imagine to get into a small LAC and you are not in one of these favorite groups.
CW has not used ED rounds extensively, yet, but it is changing. So many schools are enrolling 40%+ of their class w/ED.. and CW is at a paltry 10% or less. Imagine it ramp up the ED efforts, and for sure general acceptance rate will plummet to low 20s or lower - this is how the game is played everywhere else.
CW, in many ways, is behind the curve w/ ED games, it keeps a very large WL and historically has taken many kiddos off from the list. Even it didnât matter to us when we were applying, we wonder why didnât the admitted students come, and why CW needs to dig so deep into the WL? Are there stuff we donât know etc etc. It is never a good feeling to attend a school being the second, third or fourth choice vs somebody else.
If they are over-enrolling this cycle, maybe the game has changed for CW as well. There are just too many qualifying students applying to the same bunch of top schools, and now more than ever, fewer of them ever get a chance to get into their top choices.
@Mickey2Dad thanks for your details here, and that information about U of Chicago as a âz listâ college in a previous message. I think you are right, ED2 is brand new for CWRU. Maybe we need to give them a year or two to get their strategy down. They are simply copying the best known US schools in the region like U of C, I guess. I just was totally unaware. I do interviews for MIT and as far as I know, no Z list. I will ask them. I am now curious. MIT also does not use binding ED. They sort of donât have to, I would say, their yield is fantastic and they give students total control with their non binding programs. I wish all schools would imitate MIT in this, it would be less stress.
The binding ED programs also discriminate against middle and low income students, is another reason binding ED really is a deal breaker for most Colorado families. The way to sell a school, it to sell its attributes. And I believe CWRU has a lot of attributes, including the close relationship between professors and students, the flexibility for a double major, the flexibility of using graduate classes for undergraduate recruirements, the mentoring in both test taking GRE and research, for students who want a PhD, and the relaxed but fun social atmosphere. I wish schools would just tell what they are and stop the admissions games.
Its very disconcerting that a high caliber school like U of Chicago plays these games. It used to be a straightforward nerd school with the best Core on the planet, the Chicago Core. What happened to just telling kids what we are, to increase yield? The artificial hype that a Z list creates is terrible psychological torture. !!! The Z list kids never forget they were âlastâ.
Here is some info about Z lists at U of Chicago, date started and their positive spin. Its hard for me to swallow and seems to just be a way to increase yield. Its not in the best interests of most students, and creates angst I believe about going to a âdream schoolâ when maybe the next best school could be the best fit. It ignores fit
and reinforces the importance and myth of the dream school. We have to learn to bite the bullet in life. Colleges make this very hard. http://marketdesigner.blogspot.com/2012/06/university-of-chicago-adds-z-list.html
Interesting how these alternative entry schemes originate at elite schools and are then copied by other schools: the Z-list at Harvard, Guaranteed Sophomore Transfer at Cornell etc.
I can understand GAP year for medical school but to expect the 17-18 year old to take GAP year and wonder. How can CWRU expect an applicant, who was potentially offered generous financial package if accepted, to spend money overseas (that sounds oxymoron). Also doesnât allow those kids to sharpen their skills. In other words CWRU expects those kids to earn money for next year and then pay that to them b4 you allowed admission, brutal..
@Coloradomama Yes, it is a choice and for some it might be the right choice. Letâs say CWRU offered that person a great merit package worth lets say $100,000 over 4 years - and it sounds like some people were told if they got off the WL they would get generous merit. Might be worth waiting a year rather than starting at some place more expensive. Or perhaps they want to double major, or have a major like materials engineering that is very strong at Case and not offered someplace else. It could be a great option for the right person and every single person that got the offer can decide if it is right for them, if they would prefer to go elsewhere, or opt to stay on the WL and see what happens in the summer.
A gap year does not mean a student has to go overseas and spend lots of money. They can work and earn money at home. Certainly will make them appreciate college the next year! And may-be make it more affordable too.
As others have discussed, so many ways schools play it. Some have mid-year starts which are not easy. We have a friend whose D did her first semester abroad to get acceptance in a school. If CWRU decides to offer a few slots for a year out I think itâs fine. I think it will spur more people to consider ED or EA if it is truly their first choice.
@Coloradomama we were not warned about a gap year. Everything out there points to they use the wait list sometimes generously. They even alluded to it in all those damn emails
You could also think of this as an Early Early Decision (for next year) but that you know the Financial Package before you take it.
ALso this year there was the normal amount of acceptances, so that hasnât changedâŠit is just next year (and the future) that there will be EED. I suppose they will see if people take advantage of it or not.
@Winky1 re post #95, I read about this type of offer on CC.
I honestly do not understand why people described it as âbait and switchâ on this thread. The student still has the option to stay on waitlist. No one âforcesâ anyone to take the gap year. A student has the option to turn down the waitlist.
@bopper What do you mean by normal amount of acceptances? This implies that the acceptance was higher than previous years doesnât it? Is that data available now?
