Dad's 'Condition' Giving Me A Tough Time

<p>I currently study at an all-girls’ boarding school in the UK.</p>

<p>I am pretty confused: music is my passion (I train as a classical pianist) but I also enjoy academic work immensely. I am slotted to take 5 A Levels in Further Maths, Maths, Physics, Economics and History (my favourite subject) which I am, as of now, predicted straight As in.</p>

<p>I have gotten an offer from the Royal Academy (to study the piano as performance instrument). I truly enjoy music. However, I am also planning to make applications to Oxford/ Cambridge for Law as my parents are pushing me to do it. This is probably because my dauntingly over-achieving sister is a Cambridge scholar (for Law).</p>

<p>Being the younger sibling and wanting to be the rebel, I am hoping to gain acceptance to America which my older sister did not consider. However, my parents are unwilling to fund the comparatively expensive college education in America unless, as my father says, I am accepted by Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford or Columbia, a condition which clearly puts quite abit of pressure on me. I don’t personally believe that these are necessarily the best colleges but I simply have to deal with my dad’s ridiculous ‘condition’ meant to deter me from applying to the US and to concentrate on UK apps</p>

<p>I took the SAT I in Jan after a bit of self-studying in December (my school does not teach the SAT) and scored a 2250. I’m hoping to retake SAT I and do my SAT II for the first time by October this year. I am not sure whether or not these scores are any good as I really have no one to refer to, US apps being very foreign to me (and very intimidating). I have heard one must have a 2300 for a good college.</p>

<p>I just wanted to ask whether you think it is worthwhile applying considering my dad’s unrealistic offer. What are the chances I will get into these universities? Also, what are the music faculties like and how will a double major in say, music and history compare to Music at the Royal Academy or a single degree from a UK uni? Where do you feel I will gain the most out of?</p>

<p>Since your dad is willing to pay for Harvard, that suggests that you wouldn’t qualify for any financial aid. </p>

<p>however, with your SAT score, you might get some big merit scholarships to some schools. You need to ask your dad…“If I get a scholarship for - say - half tuition or more - then would you still object?”</p>

<p>I don’t know how you’d audition for music, though. Anyone know how overseas kids audition? Thru a video? ???</p>

<p>Clarifying some music points, Harvard music as are all the other Ivies, are non audition based admit BA’s with coursework centered in the music academic disciplines, not performance. They are not performance centered BM programs, but can be the right place for certain instrumental students. </p>

<p>Any auditioning is for ensemble placement or selection.</p>

<p>The one exception is Princeton, who recently added a performance certificate in addition to the BA path. I would have to look up the parameters. I believe THAT is an audition based admit or acceptance.</p>

<p>prismsmiles, if you are currently studying piano at a conservatory level, you know the importance of the teacher in your musical development. I would concentrate on looking at the piano faculty and lesson policies for any Ivy you consider. Do not equate these programs with a conservatory program, they are not. They are liberal arts centered music BA’s. There are combo programs between Harvard and New England Conservatory, and Juilliard/Columbia.</p>

<p>The admittance would be to both programs, via separate admissions. The Juilliard and NEC are auditioned based admits, but even with admittance to RCAM there is no guarantee you are would competitive on a very competitive instrument.</p>

<p>The students admitted to these dual programs average around eight per admissions cycle. The attrition rate can be very high.</p>

<p>Investigate the music at those you mention through their websites. Do not confuse Yale with Yale SOM, which is a grad level only program. Specific music questions would be best served in the music major forum, from people (including current students & parents) with knowledge and experience of these programs and the intracies of high level audition bases admits.</p>

<p>Be more than happy to point out past threads from within the music forum.</p>

<p>Violadad,</p>

<p>Thanks for taking the time to write.</p>

<p>“Harvard music as are all the other Ivies, are non audition based admit BA’s with coursework centered in the music academic disciplines” In that case, what is the purpose on the arts supplement offered by the schools? </p>

<p>Eight per admissions cycle is unbelievable. Definitely much harder to get into than RCM.</p>

<p>If I decide to go down an academic route, are there any opportunities for having lessons with teachers of calibre? </p>

<p>Personally, what do you think of studying at the RCM in comparison to music schools in America?</p>

<p>Each of the Ivy music parameters differ widely, and that is why you need to thoroughly investigate the individual websites. Lesson policies vary, as do applied faculty. At Harvard, I believe that instruction is through private teachers (not faculty), but may be fully or partially subsidized by the school. I would have to refresh my memory. Yale instrumental students are typically taught by grad and DMA students from Yale SOM, rarely with Yale SOM faculty, and that when it happens is at the sole discretion of the specific instructor. Other students choose to study privately. Most instrumentalists at Princeton will study privately in my experience. Columbia offers some performance faculty, but a number study privately as well.</p>

<p>These can be great experiences for certain individuals, yet tend to lend themselves more to solo type instrumental study and small ensemble/collaborative work and can be disappointing if one is seeking intense preparation for a more orchestrally centered career. The full depth of instrumentation is not always fully represented, and it some instances peer quality may be a bit lacking. I would not equate the level of music at Stanford with the others you cite. Yale has the most depth across all ensembles and instrumentation. If your purpose was solely the academics of music, or composition many of the Ivys are fine choices. If you seek a high level of academics, and an excellent musical background, these may work, but again they are not conservatories, and cannot be compared to the intensity of training one will get from a conservatory (or conservatory level program attached to an academic institution). Yet, they are top choices for undergrad pursuit in the music academic disciplines. </p>

<p>The BA approach to music is an academically centered curriculum, with the majority of the coursework in the liberal arts disciplines; on average roughly 25-35% of all credits will be in the music field, encompassing theory, history, musicology, aural training and applied skills, ensemble requirements. The BM curriculum, which is what is typical of conservatory programs is music heavy, fewer academic non-music requirements, on average 25-35% in those fields, potentially fewer still in the strict conservatory environments requiring minimal academics.</p>

<p>The admit numbers I quoted are for the specific dual institution programs mentioned. They require admission and acceptance to BOTH schools individually, one via academics, the other by audition, against the best and brightest of applicant pools. Even those admitted to both are not guaranteed admission to the dual programs. Hence, the extremely low numbers. Theses are not main stream programs. They go beyond being highly selective.</p>

<p>Personally, the quality of instruction at RCM, or Guildhall, or any number of the UK and continental conservatory programs is equivalent to what can be achieved in the US.
There are many programs in the US where you can partake of both high level academics and conservatory level programs among them Rice/Shepherd, Oberlin, Bard. Bard mandates a dual pursuit in an academic field for music performance majors and is designed as a five year program. Are they Harvard, or Yale? No, but they are highly selective US institutions that allow you to do both.</p>

<p>These topics have been addressed countless times in the music forum and I am happy to pull thread links. </p>

<p>Part of the issue is if you are looking for a potential performance career, or an academic based career in a non-music field. You need to determine your focus and path. This may help [Peabody</a> Institute - Conservatory Admissions: The Double Degree Dilemma](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/doubledegree]Peabody”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/doubledegree)</p>

<p>If you limit yourselves to only these options, you need to meet the academic standards for admission. There is no audition based component. Your musical talents may be worth a data point or two, and your competition may well be more highly qualified academically, and of equal or greater musical talent. The dual enrollment programs I specified are even more competitive, combining the most highly selective academic criteria and the highest audition standard. And that is a double whammy. </p>

<p>You may well suffer from a father that appears to have a fixation on a name or a reputation
of an institution in guaranteeing your future. I know of no reasonable means of changing that. The name on the stone edifice (or the name of your private instructor) does not guarantee anything.</p>

<p>I wish you luck.</p>

<p>Added: (you can add URochester/EastmanSOM and Johns Hopkins/Peabody to the names I offered. Northwestern is another.)</p>

<p>Great information. It was extremely thorough and has given me a much clearer picture of things. </p>

<p>I will be doing some proper research and having a convo with dad.</p>

<p>Many thanks.</p>

<p>I am more than happy to answer music questions, and redirect you to others with the discipline and program specific expertise.</p>

<p>There is a general discussion thread here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/738525-how-strong-music-ec.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/738525-how-strong-music-ec.html&lt;/a&gt; addressing the potential admission impact of a conservatory level ability on Ivy level admits. Realize it addresses academic, not audition based or audition centered scenarios.</p>

<p>Might well be worth your taking the time to read.</p>

<p>You might want to take a the program between RCM London and Princeton : [Program</a> to allow Princeton students to attend Royal College of Music - 1/14/2008 - Princeton Weekly Bulletin](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/08/0114/music/]Program”>Program to allow Princeton students to attend Royal College of Music - 1/14/2008 - Princeton Weekly Bulletin)</p>

<p>I thought there was some kind or agreement between RAM and King’s College and between RCM and Imperial College, so that music students could take classes at university as well but I’m not so sure.</p>

<p>I think RCM is pretty good. If I remember well they have exchange programs with MSM, NEC and Eastman so I suppose they could be less or more of the same calibre. Besides some of the “visiting professors” are from excellent American conservatories.</p>