dartmouth vs. columbia (with a twist)

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi parents,</p>

<p>I’m sure your responses to this question will be pretty uniform, but all the same I’m interested in what you have to say.</p>

<p>Here’s my problem: I have lived in many different places (west coast, mid-west, east coast), and have spent the last several years of my life about 20 minutes outside of NYC. I like going into the city occasionally, but I prefer the suburbs where everything is peaceful and there are trees and it’s not overwhelming with man-made objects, etc. .</p>

<p>I didn’t apply anywhere ED, mostly because of this problem. When I visited colleges in the spring of my junior year, I absolutely fell in love with Dartmouth. I loved the campus, the people, the community… everything. I spoke with professors, the coach of the crew team, students, visited three times… it was obviously my dream school.</p>

<p>Then I visited Columbia, and didn’t like it at all. The people there (in my opinion, I don’t mean to offend) are in a word… alternative, and I am a more main-stream sort of person. I don’t mean to judge a book by its cover but I’ve spoken with many Columbia students, and the people there are in fact “weird” (sorry - once again). Additionally I don’t like Columbia’s curriculum, hate it’s campus (am not a huge fan of the city either), don’t want to be that close to home, and can’t see myself there at all. </p>

<p>So what’s the problem? Both of my parents work at Columbia, so I wouldn’t have to pay tuition. Going to any other school would be 50% off tuition. My parents have told me that the choice is mine, and while we wont go into debt or anything if I go to Dartmouth, I do feel bad choosing Dartmouth over Columbia just because I “think” I wouldn’t be happy at Columbia.</p>

<p>What do you think? I know I haven’t heard from either school, but I am very well qualified and anticipate acceptance at both. I just want to have this problem sorted out before I get the letters in April.</p>

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<p>Frankly, I don’t think you should have applied to Columbia. It’s not for everyone, and doesn’t seem to be for you. My niece made a “courtesy” visit to Columbia because both of her parents went there (met there), but she didn’t like it and she didn’t apply.</p>

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<p>I think you should go to Dartmouth and hope you get the chance. </p>

<p>You have certainly convinced me (unless you’ve just created a talk-yourself-into-it rationale for your preference). Your preference is based on curriculum, physical setting and peer group. I don’t know if Columbia is totally populated by the “alternatives” you reference, but I have little doubt that the Darmouth “type” is more up your alley.</p>

<p>50% off tuition is a great deal and if your family can swing it, I say go for it. In many other threads, parents have made the suggestion that you offer to shoulder some of the $$ burden, and then follow through. This can be in the form of ramping up your summer job savings, loans, etc.</p>

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<p>Though I am not a parent, I suggest you ask yourself why you hate Columbia’s curriculum (you hate the humanities? you hate becoming culturally literate?) and ask yourself whether Columbia students really were “weird” or whether you just wanted them to be weird. I have friends who have gone to both Dartmouth and Columbia, and I happen to think the Columbia kids are much cooler than the Dartmouth ones. $125k+ saved on tuition is truly something to think about, and could help you immensely for grad school.</p>

1 Like
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<p>I can relate to how you feel because I felt the same way when I realized that my parents will be paying a substantial amount at Princeton over a free ride even though, like you, they gave me the choice. Part of having a good college experience is being happy where you are and it seems like you would not be happy at Columbia for a number of reasons. I would say go to Dartmouth. Just let your parents know how much you appreciate their contribution to your college education. I felt a little better when I decided that I will cover my personal expenses by way of savings from future summer jobs.</p>

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<p>OP, you should wait for April 1 before counting your chicken. What makes you think you are an automatic admit to both schools? Both are very hard to get into…so come back in April.</p>

<p>But if you hate Columbia that much, you should not have applied in the first place. And I agree with Encomium’s appraisal of Columbia’s core curriculum.</p>

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<p>Come on people, stop judgint this kid for not wanting Columbia’s core curriculum. Many people don’t want to study the classics over things they’re more interested in. And come back into April? This is not HYP, one can make a pretty good guess whether the’ll get into these 2 schools, especially with the interest of a coach at one, and 2 parents employed at the other.</p>

<p>That said, go to Dartmouth. I totally agree the same kid would not like both schools. Dartmouth is more preppy and traditional and Columbia more a;ternative. Your analysis is reasonable. Offer to take some loans to make your parents whole.</p>

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<p>I agree…if you are given the chance, go to Dartmouth. It’s a school you WANT to attend. Columbia is not. Period. Half tuition, by the way, is more than just “chump change” and is a nice incentive to attend. Since your parents are not putting pressure on you to attend Columbia against your own wishes, why are you doing that to yourself??</p>

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<p>Columbia is a great school, and given the circumstances, I do not regret applying there at all. I don’t think that I would be happy there, but I am not sure. </p>

<p>In response to thumper, there are two reasons why I am still seriously considering Columbia. First, $60k, as you said, is not chump change. $60k is probably something like 80-100k pre-tax, so it’s significant. My mom said that if I go to Columbia my parents will give me money for misc. daily expenses, some money for grad school, etc… If I go to Dartmouth, I’m on my own. This doesn’t phase me too much as I’d like to become financially independent from my parents as much as possible, but at the same time having extra money is nice. </p>

<p>Second, the vast majority of my friends who have gone to college have ended up loving it. That may be because the vast majority of people spend a great deal of time choosing their school and thus pick ones that they love, or it may be because people find niches no matter where they go. Columbia is a large enough school that I think there is a chance that I’d find a niche there as well, and would be happy… for $60k less than I would be at Dartmouth. At the same time there are people who transfer, and I would like to avoid that as much as possible for obvious reasons. I have no rebuttals for the people who give the “you’ll be happy wherever you go” line, besides that their own argument could be false.</p>

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<p>From everything the OP has said, he feels a fit with Dartmouth and feels a lack of fit with Columbia. Wraps it for me.</p>

<p>Encomium, some folks can dislike the rigid core without being anti-humanities. Or anti-math. Or whatever.</p>

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<p>Hi John,</p>

<p>Welcome to CC. There is no shame is knowing what you want and what you don’t want in a college education. As far as 2 colleges are concerned, Columbia and Dartmouth could be not be more different from each other- they really are like night and day. FWIW, Barnard and Columbia are totally differnt from each other and they are part of the same university system. My daughter felt the same way and chose Dartmouth after spending a lot of years in the Columbia/ Barnard environment (my sister, a Columbia grad worked at Columbia for over 10 years and I used to tease her about making my daughter her legal guardian in order to get the tutition remission). In addition if you have lived in NYC all of your life, Hanover can be a welcome change of pace. (If both of his parents are employees, and if he is anywhere in the ball park as far grades/scores he is going to be in at Columbia)</p>

<p>Because Columbia’s core curriculum does not appeal to you does not mean that you * hate the humanities or you hate becoming culturally literate * because Columbia does not have the monoply on either of thse thngs. You can be come culturally literate at Brown with it’s open curriculum, at Dartmouth with it’s distribution requirements or at Queens College, or any other college in the country with a Humanites/English departments if is your desire to do so.</p>

<p>You are very fortunate that your parents aren’t forcing Columbia down your throat because of the tuition remission (even though your eduction still would not be exactly free because if you wanted to live on campus, they would still have to pay room/board). I guess they realize that a free education really isn’t free if cost you what you want or need in an education and really won’t be happy with it.</p>

<p>My question is (and one that your parents should push back to HR) even if only one of your parents worked at Columbia, you would have still been eligible for the full tutition remission at Columbia/Barnard and 1/2 tuition every where else, is this benefit only counted once because both of your parents work at the university or would *each parent * be entitled to on-half tutition? They should get a definitive answer from HR.</p>

<p>April is around the corner, see how everything shakes out and make the decision then. (hey if your parents are still there, keep Columbia in mind for grad/professional school ;))</p>

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<p>Does the free tuition offer at Columbia apply to graduate school or if you transfer as an undergrad? I agree with other posters, you need to have acceptances in hand before you get too worked up about it. It sounds like your family is able to swing Dartmouth so if that’s what you want, why not go for it?</p>

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<p>Hi Lefthandofdog (your name always makes me smile),</p>

<p>Columbia’s tutition remission does cover grad professional schools (officers, professors get 100% tuition remission at all grad professional programs, staff support gets I beleive half tutition 7 credits per semester) John could use that tutition remission then</p>

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<p>I just checked the packet that explains columbia benefits, and children of professors are only given tuition breaks for columbia grad programs if the professors were hired before 1987. I’d pay for Columbia grad 100%.</p>

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<p>bummer (a lot of the people I know at Columbia are now long term employees). Do you know if each of your parents’ tutition remission for undergrad is counted separately?</p>

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<p>Zagat is right about my ‘come back in April’ comment - I was being very hostile. But having 2 parents is not a guarantee of admission into Columbia especially if it is Columbia College where the admit rate RD is 11% to 12%.</p>

<p>Anyway, I still say he should not have applied to Columbia in the first place if he did not like it that much…</p>

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<p>I can see how he might have felt it was almost disrectful to his parents not to have appllied. Unless they are the rare variety of professors, they don’t make a huge amount of money, though probably enough to get no financial aid. This couldn’t be easy for the op.</p>

<p>And as for getting into Columbia and Dartmouth, few 4.0, 1550s with decent ECs get turned down Of course we don’t know his stats, but if you know you have great stats, you know your chances are very high.</p>

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<p>I don’t follow Dartmouth, but look at the acceptance/rejection threads on the Columbia board for ED, which is easier than RD (usually about 10% acceptaance rate). No one can have any kind of assurance, no matter what their stats.</p>

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<p>If it wasn’t for the existence of a second-rate football conference, you wouldn’t even be comparing these two schools, other than the fact that lots of folks in the northeast make it a sport to apply to multiple members of said conference. One is very urban, one is very rural; one has a relatively strict core curriculum, one does not; one has lots of Greeks, the other doesn’t; one has lots of graduate programs (and lots of TAs), the other does not; one is preppier that the other; one has many more Pell Grant recipients than the other; one has lots of skiers! the other does not; one is much more encouraging of junior year abroad than the other. Dartmouth is more like Whitman (!) than it is like Columbia. Columbia is more like UChicago than it is like Dartmouth.</p>

<p>It was a mistake to apply to Columbia at all. You need to trust your parents to tell you what they feel they can afford and what they can’t, and act accordingly.</p>

<p>Give them both a big kiss.</p>

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<p>John381,</p>

<p>You sound very thoughtful and mature to me and I’m a little surprised by the hostility of some of the posts.
Obviously, you should have applied to both, to suggest otherwise is beyond maudlin utopianism: $170,000 v $85,000, of course.</p>

<p>Moreover, my daughter felt the same way about both schools. In another thread she described Columbia as a “Majestic Necropolis.” Nonetheless, she gave it strong consideration due to our prompting–we live about 20 minutes away. It wasn’t money, but something that meant just as much to us.</p>

<p>I agree with one of the above posters, you should ask yourself if it was you who had to pay the difference–in loans etc–would you think it was worth it. Maybe you will?
As to the open-curriculum, I agree with Sybbie, they offer the same courses at Brown, they just don’t mandate them for every student. I find Dartmouth to be a compromise between the two in terms of trad-lib distinctions. My daughter is going there next year.</p>

<p>Also, unlike some posters, I believe you are probably right in thinking you are highly likely to get accepted to Columbia, seeing as both parents teach there–check out the percentages, they are very high.</p>

<p>They are both great schools but there is only one of you and as Socrates said “Know Thyself.”
Knowing yourself you will ultimately know what to do.</p>

<p>Good luck, I love hearing from thoughtful students like you.</p>