<p>I have a good friend- let 's call her Sally who is beautiful, athletic, a successful business woman and single. She has been dating a variety of men for 2/ 3 years ( not intimate)- just " getting -to -know -you -better -with- a view to -a -potential -relationship " type dates. Anyway, she will meet these men on match or through friends of friends and we are both amazed at the amount of men who just will not get their hands in their wallets !! For example, she is casually seeing a man who is very interested in pursuing a more serious relationship with her. Also successful- no kids , doesn’t work during the winter . Travels a lot. He brings her flowers- but even if he calls her up and invites her to go out to get dinner, when the check comes he never insists on paying - ever. She is a very generous person and has no objection to paying her share, but she and I feel strongly that if a guy wants a romantic relationship he should pick up the tab the first time they go out. Or, at least say " let me get this, you can pay next time…" Anyone have any thoughts ? Are we being old- fashioned ?</p>
<p>Need more info. Do they split the checks? Has she made the “I’ll get it this time, you get it next time” offer?</p>
<p>I think that expecting the guy to pick up the first check, when they are both 40+ and she is successful in her own right, may be old-fashioned and maybe even sexist. On the other hand, if the guy is a slouch and makes no effort to even pay his share, then the first date needs to be the last date.</p>
<p>What has been happening is that he has asked her to go out to dinner and the first date she said , politely " we can split this if you like" and he said " sure" so she paid half the tab when she had a glass of wine and a sparking water and he had 2 martins!! Now, as she explained to me that’s been the reoccurring theme- he orders more- she eats and drinks less and he has her pay half. And he has indicated a very strong interest in taking the relationship to the " next level" . If you get my drift. After 5/6 of these dates she has put him firmly in the " friends" category ! So what gives- I think he’s really cheap? What guy calls someone up and asks them ute and doesn’t at least the first time to two offer to pick up the tab?</p>
<p>Next time have her drive in her car to meet him at the restaurant.
If he brings flowers, divide the bouquet and give half back to him.
And ask the waitress for separate checks while ordering.
Is he cheap, yes.
Is that acceptable?
He doesn’t mind being cheap.
At least she knows she is dating a cheapskate.
Wait until he pulls out the coupons for one entree, get one entree, free of lesser price.
Then will she be done?</p>
<p>My daughters Mid-20’s) get SO mad if a guy offers to pay anything for them. I guess I feel the same way, honestly, unless the guy clearly makes a lot (because I sure don’t) and the place he wants to go to is more expensive than I would ordinarily go to. The I might consider it but it would still offend my pride.</p>
<p>I don’t think there are any clear rules for this anymore and many women get really offended if a guy pays, opens the door, and so on. He may just be assuming that is what you want.</p>
<p>LOL. She is already done- she’s just trying to let him down gently. I think she’s patching things up with her former flame.</p>
<p>If someone invites you out, they pay, as you are their guest.
If it is a mutual deciding on an event, then argue over who gets to pay, or take turns/split it.
But you don’t ask someone out & expect them to pay your share.</p>
<p>There are whole dating forums devoted to these issues and as a former online dater in my 40’s who met her love match on eharmony let me tell you paying is a hot button issue.</p>
<p>A lot of people have hangs up and different priorities about money. Not wanting to look dependant or gold digging (women, usually) and not wanting to get taken advantage of (men, usually). I think that sharing expenses is common and expected by the time the relationship is established, especially in adults. I would personally worry that someone THAT concerned over money at this early of a stage is EITHER a person who “counts” keeps track and doesn’t want to give more than what they feel is “their share” or is very frugal. He has shown her who he is…is that what she is okay with? IS this a guy who if she decided to go on vacation or move in with would present her with her itemized total? Is that what she wants? Is she looking for a life partner?</p>
<p>Anecdotally, I was very “pay for myself” when I was first single but I realized (1) that most professionals pay for each other even in groups of men (“I got this!”) AND (2) many men treated you paying for yourself as a “not interested” signal AND (3) some guys are just gentlemen who think at least for a couple dates that he can handle it AND (4) that while I wasn’t looking for someone to support me, I did want someone a bit traditional who didn’t think buying me a salad and a glass of wine meant I was a gold digger AND (5) my wanting to pay for myself was about my own control issues.</p>
<p>And it’s not that she minds paying or even treating him… It’s that he has never offered / insisted on paying the whole tab even once and she has paid the whole bill on several occasions- brunch or lunch.</p>
<p>Tempe mom- exactly- she’s not looking to be wined or dined or to be taken care of , but IMO it’s pretty cheap not to occasionally buy a salad and a glass of wine for someone you profess to be very interested in</p>
<p>If someone shows you who they are, believe them.</p>
<p>I hope she isn’t basing her opinion of this guy mostly on how he deals with the check. He does sound cheap, but that’s not always a bad thing. As was suggested above, the easiest way to handle the situation is just to ask for separate checks. If someone expects their drinks or food to be picked up by their date before they will consider taking it to the “next level,” well, there’s a word for people who expect to get paid before sex. I’m certainly not saying that’s your friend, but making payment for a date the criteria for “next level” sounds unseemly.</p>
<p>I’m sorry…he sounds more than cheap. He sounds like a mooch. If someone invited me out to eat, it would NEVER dawn on me to pick up ANY part of their check…none.</p>
<p>If this got more serious, would he expect her to pay all the rent, utilities, car payments, food bills, etc? Sounds like YES.</p>
<p>I say…next time he asks her out…just say NO. She is being a doormat.</p>
<p>It’s not even the financial frugality that should be concerning in a long term partner (because lots of people are frugal and that is FINE)…it’s whether the finacial frugality is really emotional frugality/control and that is an unknown. </p>
<p>But, that said, your friend needs to either TALK to him about this or cut him loose.</p>
<p>MiddKidd…I understand what you are saying but surely you aren’t suggesting she SHOULD sleep with him if she has concerns about him…even if they are about how he handles money or–thus–treats her? What is she to think ROMANTICALLY when he suggests nice places, seems to be financially viable, seems unconcerned about his expenses but continually draws a line in the sand saying “your share is $47.16?” </p>
<p>It’s NOT this is a woman I am woo-ing and I want to see her smile/treat her nice. It’s not “next time we need to pick an less expensive place” because I am naturally frugal. So what then is left?</p>
<p>I told her you all would have good advice. And Midd, it’s not that she expects to get " paid" in the form of a free meal before he get’s to first base, but don’t you think it’s a little unromantic to have someone invite you out to dinner. In the traditional way i. E. " let’s go out to such and such a restaurant on Saturday night" and then when the bill shows up all of a sudden he’s mister egalitarian . She’s no ho but she certainly is not looking for a gigolo ! ( hey, that rhymes!!) maybe a new rap song?</p>
<p>My thought process would be first date, meet for coffee. If he called me for a second date, I would expect him to pay. If second date went well, I would invite him for something (either the famous, I have two tickets for blah blah blah, would you like to go) or invite him to dinner at my place (and I am a good cook). Just my thoughts.</p>
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<p>No, not at all. OP said that “she and I feel strongly that if a guy wants a romantic relationship he should pick up the tab the first time they go out.” “Romantic relationship” means sex. That’s not all it means, of course, but that’s what people hear. So if you want to cut to the chase, OP said “she and I feel strongly that if a guy wants to hop in the sack he should pick up the tab the first time they go out.” Which is saying that having the guy pick up the check for the first date is a prerequisite to having sex with him.</p>
<p>Is it OK for a guy to have this standard for a woman on their first date? If not, why not? Obviously both people on a first date can’t have this same standard, otherwise there’s no chance that the relationship will progress to the “next level.”</p>
<p>Kayf- also a good plan for match dates.</p>
<p>Middkidd- in my social circles we’ve all had our share of youthful " indiscretions " that didn’t even make to a restaurant before we " took it to the next level" . That’s not what I’m talking about. We’re talking romance, hearts , valentines day cards , snuggling under the covers on a rainy sat night watching movies… Call me old fashioned , but I would not date/ be in a relationship unless they made the effort to pay the first date or so… It’s the thought… It’s not the monetary amount.</p>