<p>Also, the city of Detroit has it’s own bus service that does not always connect to the suburban bus system. So if you live in Detroit, you use DDOT. If you want to get to Oakland County for work, you might need to transfer to SEMTA so HOPEFULLY DDOT gets you to a transfer point where you can catch a SEMTA bus. And there’s a scattering of communities that do not participate in SEMTA so if your job is in one of those communities, the bus doesn’t go there because participation is voluntary by community - communities can and do opt out. So if you want completely reliable tranportation to a decent job, you need to drive. You can’t really bike it or depend on public transportation.</p>
<p>If you want to work an overnight job (say at a hospital) the overnight bus transportation is spotty at best. I have lived in other metropolitan areas in my adult life and Detroit is the worst I have ever lived in for public transportation and being commuter friendly. It is not walkable or bikeable, it is only driveable.</p>
<p>One thing I’d strongly recommend is NOT to be at all concerned about the permit expiring in Feb. Assume it may need to be renewed, no big deal. The important thing is that she not even attempt to take the road test until SHE is a confident, competent driver. There is no point in her taking the test before that and setting herself and the examiner up for failure. Each individual needs to spend whatever time and effort it takes to get sufficient skills to be a competent driver.</p>
<p>S was 20 when he got his license and D was 21. Neither was in a hurry to drive after HS because they have health issues that limit their stamina and driving attentively in heavy traffic (which we often have in HI) is an energy drain. Now, 3-6 years later, both are now pretty good drivers and can get where they need to go, even in unfamiliar areas and in bad, heavy traffic.</p>
<p>This is how it is in Detroit:</p>
<p>[Detroit</a> buses could be getting own police force | News - Home](<a href=“http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-buses-could-be-getting-own-police-force/-/1719418/23065052/-/13135yq/-/index.html]Detroit”>http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-buses-could-be-getting-own-police-force/-/1719418/23065052/-/13135yq/-/index.html)</p>
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<p>I used to be like that about the Subway etc. Until my daughter started at Columbia in NYC this fall. She was 16 when she started there and doesn’t have a license. I was worried about her being on the subway at all times of the night, but after dropping her at school, the subway was my favorite mode of transportation to get around there. NYC truly doesn’t sleep. Nightlife starts at 11pm. So it wasn’t a concern.
My daughter started learning before she left for college, and was doing well. She had to learn on one of our minivans so it did slow her down. I wish she could learn on a compact smaller car. Here they need a certain amount of hours driving in certain conditions. (Day/ night) the hours have to be documented. She didn’t have enough hours before she had to leave for college. She has to renew the permit now. She definitely doesn’t need a car at college, but she’ll have a job in the summer when she comes back. Ideally having her license would absolve me from having to get her there and back, and give her more options.</p>
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<p>This was me when I was learning to drive. I did the parent-taught, and I went onto the ‘real’ road much, much later than most of my friends. We have an abandoned office park area around here with nice, straight roads, and for the first three months, on a Sunday morning when the roads were dead, I just practiced turning in parking lots and driving straight, changing lanes, getting up to speed, etc. After that, I’d take a turn out onto the ‘real’ road (with many cars at a good-sized intersection), and then turn back into the office park area and drive for a while. I spent a lot longer on the ‘slow’ stuff, and then, once I was more comfortable, started driving familiar routes with the parent beside me. So I think consistent, long-term practice is best, rather than trying to cram it all in a month before the exam.</p>
<p>@Emahee - I could have written much of your post about West Virginia outside of Charleston - the only area where busses run evenings and Sundays.</p>
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In rural West Virginia? Not hardly, although it is doable in Charleston and other areas that are cities by WV standards but wide places in the road anywhere else.</p>
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<p>This is when I learned how to drive at the ripe old age of 26! I was newly pregnant and my Ex-H said I could NOT take our baby on a bus or in a dirty cab–lol. I got my permit, ex-H taught me how to drive , I practiced by driving myself to and from work with husband as passenger along with trips to the store and going out for a few months, and passed my behind the wheel test on the first attempt. </p>
<p>I had no desire as a teen due to excellent public transportation. I had no desire in college due to excellent transportation & a future husband that drove me around–ditto for after college. I also resided downtown, so all the nightlife was just out the door and down the street. The only thing that nudged me towards driving was being pregnant because knowing how to drive became essential with DS on the way.</p>
<p>Every day, some hesitant elderly drivers have accidents. They will all assure you that they are good drivers. Almost everyone, even terrible drivers, thinks they are a good driver.</p>
<p>Actually, there are some folks who are aware they are not very good drivers. The smart ones let others who are better drivers and willing to drive do the driving whenever possible. We are glad to drive these grateful, quiet passengers. The smart ones also limit their driving to short distances and ideal conditions.</p>
<p>Interesting that Detroit is losing population whereas young people, many of whom don’t want to drive, are flocking to other cities. So maybe the OP’s daughter couldn’t move to Detroit. But maybe she would love Portland, San Francisco, Minneapolis or New York, vibrant cities filled with younger non-drivers.</p>
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<p>[Why</a> aren?t young people getting drivers? licenses? Too much hassle!](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/07/why-arent-young-people-getting-drivers-licenses-too-much-hassle/]Why”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/07/why-arent-young-people-getting-drivers-licenses-too-much-hassle/)</p>
<p>ucb, DDOT is mainly just downtown and the immediate surrounding area. I live almost 30 miles away from Detroit proper. Out in the suburbs, there are no real bus systems. Where I grew up, there were no buses at all ever and I don’t think any of the surrounding cities had them either. I was stunned when I moved here (20 minutes from where I grew up) and saw my first bus outside of Ann Arbor… I see one on the road maybe once every few months. It is unusual that my city even has these, most places have none. I am looking at the map for that particular bus system and it looks like there are only two stops in the entire city, which are two miles away from each other and perfectly useless, they don’t go ANYWHERE I would ever need to go in my life and nowhere in town at all. What do I do when I have small children who have doctors appointments across town in February when it’s 0 degrees outside? That’s over a 2 hour walk in good weather without kids with you. I don’t have the option to take a cab everywhere I go unless I just stop paying my other bills. </p>
<p>And then if you’re “lucky” enough to live in one of the areas that does have DDOT buses, you take your life into your hands by getting on them.</p>
<p>Chicago is not a good place to learn how to drive. Many of the roads are in bad shape and there is lots of traffic. We have an in-town in Chicago and once we arrive from Madison on Friday night with two exceptions the car remains in the parking garage until Sunday morning. I take the dry cleaning to the really cheap cleaners on Broadway, and I go to the Jewel about a mile away. We walk and take taxis. I have been driving for 54 years.</p>
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<p>It may be necessary to take the written test again. Also, the people at the DMV or MVA or whatever your state calls it may laugh at you. Both of these things happened to one of my kids, who renewed a learner’s permit for a second year.</p>
<p>@Cardinal Fang: Everyone has a different definition of what a “bad” driver is, and in my opinion, there is a difference between a bad driver and a dangerous driver. I think I’m a bad driver, just because I’m not very good at manipulating a car–I’m not very confident when parking, especially parallel parking; I like to have large gaps when changing lanes because I don’t feel confident in my knowledge of where my car begins and ends to “squeeze” into spots; Sometimes, I don’t always stop as smoothly as I would like to. In my opinion, I feel like a bad driver, but that doesn’t automatically mean that I’m a dangerous driver. I like to say that I’m not a confident driver–not bad, not dangerous, just not confident. So I stay out situations where hesitancy could cause a problem. I avoid heavy traffic and dangerous weather conditions. I don’t text or talk on my phone when I drive. I drive a small car, and if I don’t feel comfortable making a sudden turn or last minute lane change, I just keep going and make a u-turn. I’m extra aware of where everything and everyone is because I know that I’ll panic if I have to do something at the last minute. So yeah, I’m a bad driver, but I would also consider myself a fairly safe driver.</p>
<p>And conversely, very good drivers can be very dangerous ones. I know people who are very good drivers–great spatial awareness, really good at maneuvering their car around others and into tight spaces, very confident (and rightly so). But sometimes, they drive fairly dangerously (they drive really fast, they weave in and out of traffic, they talk on the phone or eat while they drive, they make last minute turns or other changes, or they drive after drinking). In my opinion, there’s a difference, and just because someone describes themselves as a “bad” driver, it doesn’t always mean that they are automatically dangerous. Even a great driver can get into an accident if they’re distracted.</p>
<p>@DGDzDad: I would encourage your daughter to keep driving, if she’s inclined to do so. She sounds a lot like I was in high school, and my parents were very hands off. They let me get my license when I wanted to, but looking back on it, I would have preferred if they had pushed a little more. For me, it was a confidence issue. It was the same with swimming, riding a bike, and learning to ice skate. I was capable of doing it well before I actually did just because I never liked trying something and failing. It made me REALLY nervous when someone was watching me, and I would get tunnel vision whenever I drove because I was so nervous to have my parents in the car. It was the same thing when I was learning to ride a bike or swim. Even if I was just doing homework, I would tense, freeze, and my mind would go blank if someone looked over my shoulder. When I finally got my license (and only because I absolutely had to), it was a million times easier and I was a much better driver when I didn’t have my parents in the car, just because I was less stressed out.</p>
<p>Keep working with her to get her license. Try driving around a large parking lot when there’s no one there (we did the school parking lot on a weekend), so she can practice turning and driving at a reasonable speed. If she has trouble with turns, just drive around the block. Have her get comfortable what the appropriate speed to take turns, with scanning her surroundings, and checking her blind spots while still driving straight. Have her practice stopping at intersections so that she can learn the appropriate place to stop. Try not to get frustrated with her because even if you think you sound calm, she can probably sense your frustration with her. If there’s someone else that can help her practice driving, that can help. It’s not necessarily that she doesn’t have the skill to do it, but she may just be nervous and not confident in her abilities. It happens, and the only way she’s going to be able to overcome that is to practice and just drive.</p>
<p>I do think it’s important to be able to drive, even if she ends up never NEEDING to drive a day in her life. It’s an important skill to have, just in case you ever need to do it. I have the same opinion about swimming. You just never know when you’re going to need to swim, and it’s good to be capable of it, even if you never end up using it.</p>
<p>I know a lot of people who don’t drive, some for medical reasons, some by choice.</p>
<p>I’ve never had an accident or gotten a ticket and, weirdly, I can parallel park like a champ. But I know my limitations, so I always plan carefully, make sure to eliminate distractions and never overstretch my abilities. If you didn’t know I had a problem, you would never know. Many people don’t do much more than local driving and I get where I need to go safely, but if I’m going somewhere new, I always get assistance. No harm, no foul.</p>
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<p>I grew up in Minneapolis–lol, and is why I did not learn to drive until 26–I had no need to do so. I could get to EVERY shopping mall, grocery store, theater, movie theater, club, coffee shop, and library via bus–tons of cabs, too. Minneapolis is called Mini-Apple for a reason. [Minneapolis</a> Promotes Itself As Midwest’s “Mini Apple” | Travel with Val](<a href=“http://www.travelwithval.com/minneapolis-promotes-itself-as-midwests-mini-apple/]Minneapolis”>http://www.travelwithval.com/minneapolis-promotes-itself-as-midwests-mini-apple/)</p>
<p>A non-driving lifestyle is fine as long as it’s a choice and not a constraint. In reality, much of this country, including Minneapolis, is not laid out for biking except if you are young, fit, don’t have to show up for work non-disheveled and clean, and don’t have to cart around children in inclement weather. NYC, Boston, and SF are the exceptions, not the rule. Houston, Atlanta, LA etc. are cities where lack of a car can be an extreme annoyance and time suck depending on your lifestyle and responsibilities for work or family. Barring an actual physical inability to operate a car, I would want my children to know how to drive even if they choose not to do so. Like everything else, it’s easier to learn to drive while young. Good luck to your D, OP.</p>