Daughter hid tattoo from parents

failsafe21 · June 22, 2011, 3:50pm

Sure. There are several LOGICAL conditions one could or should put on giving funding, but I don’t think those conditions should be such that they imply control of what an adult can do with their own body enforced via economic means. I should qualify that I am not a parent, however. Several of my own parents’ conditions on their full pay made perfect sense to me.

Such conditions could include:

The student continues to remain in good academic standing grade-wise.
The student remains in good disciplinary standing (ie, no suspensions, arrests, etc)
The student contributes some agreed upon sum toward the education, their parents, their own spending money, etc.

Those are all things that do not infringe on the ownership of the student over her own body. Rather, they are logical requirements related to the gift at hand, with naturally following consequences which makes sense.

I will admit, it felt creepy and controlling and violating for my own parents to place the “no tattoos or we won’t pay for college” rule on me after I turned 18. I do not think this is how they intended it, but it is how it made me feel - that my body was somehow not my own because someone else was paying for my undergraduate degree.

I agree the D in this situation got a stupid tattoo. It probably wasn’t a wise decision. And in all honesty, she will face consequences from those decisions, but pulling all funding for an undergraduate education based on a decision about her own body which did not harm anyone else is extraordinarily far from a “natural” consequence. I am sure the D in this situation will be kicking her own ass by Christmas, I am not sure what is served by having the parents do it as well.

ETA: The concept of “your body is not your own” I think is an especially dangerous concept to advocate when your children are young women. The idea that someone else controls the purse strings, and therefore can and should control your body is creepy and I could foresee leading to some issues.

If you teach your daughter that “whoever has the gold makes the rules” even when it comes to her own body, what does she do when she needs and abortion and she knows you don’t agree? Or what does she do when she’s a stay at home mom whose husband abuses her? Or what does she do if her employer makes sexual submission a precondition of her work environment?

It is a dangerous attitude. It doesn’t just stop at tattoos. It sends the message that someone else owns your body, and if you want that financial security, well then by golly you ought to just live with that fact. A much healthier attitude to promote, IMHO, is:

“Your body is your body. It is ALWAYS your choice to do what you want to or with it. It is also always your choice NOT to do something, and it does not matter if money is involved. I hope you make wise choices with your body. We have talked about what we, your parents, think are wise choices to make but we always want you to approach decisions about your body thoughtfully and carefully, to always make them based on what you want, not based on what someone financially or otherwise is compelling you to do. First and foremost, it is always your body.”

sunnyflorida · June 22, 2011, 3:59pm

Just for the record, some of us CAPITALIZE because we are older, did not go through college with a smart phone and a laptop, and do not know how to use BOLD or ITALICS on a board, so we capitalize for quick replies. I am lucky to remember how to quote. In a conversation, we can use inflection and raise our voice to emphasize a point The written word makes that difficult. It may NOT be literary. It is certainly practical. So are smilies/emoticons here and there. Otherwise, posts would be all monotone.

whatever4 · June 22, 2011, 4:07pm

The mother has the right to change her mind about the “no tattoo” condition, and – after the daughter tells her father about the tattoo – the mother should discuss her change of heart with her husband as they discuss what the consequences of the daughter’s decision should be. It is not the father’s decision alone.

However, this daughter has shown extremely poor judgement in: 1) getting the tattoo despite the conditions she agreed to regarding her parents paying the private college costs; 2) getting her high school boyfriend’s initials tattooed on her; and 3) trying to tell her mother that any negative consequences are the mother’s fault. Ignoring or hiding this kind of flawed decision-making by the daughter would be a mistake; this is something the family needs to talk through and learn from. This is a teachable moment for the mother, daughter and father.

MomofWildChild · June 22, 2011, 4:09pm

Every day I remember how to quote on CC is a victory!

fishymom · June 22, 2011, 4:11pm

^^^You are correct, this is my friend’s daughter, not mine. The connection to me is that my husband and I also asked our children not to get tattoos until they graduated from college. There is no implied threat or anything, just a strong hope that they will follow our advice. I am not the least bit worried about my son, he finds tattoos repulsive. My daughter, on the other hand, may at some point decide she wants a tattoo. My husband and I hope that she will wait to make that decision until she has graduated from college. If she does not, I will be a little sad, but life will go on.

Now, as far as how my friend discovered the tattoo, I thought I posted this upthread, but she went in to wake her daughter up for an appointment and saw it. Her daughter said, well, now you know. Later in the day, a discussion ensued and mom told daughter she needed to tell her father. Daughter freaked, begged mom not to tell and told mom it would be mom’s fault if dad pulled the plug on the expensive school, thereby ruining her life. This was all yesterday. Today, daughter has calmed down and is feeling remorseful for not being honest with parents from the start. She got the tattoo on a birthday weekend trip to South Beach with some girlfriends, the boyfriend was not there. This has been confirmed by the parent whose home the girls stayed in and the fact that he had practice 2+ hours away very early the next morning. Why in the world she thought it a good idea to get the bf’s initial, I cannot fathom. She is a smart girl and this is pretty out of character for her. They are no longer together, broke up right before prom.

As far as size, I have know idea what is considered small or medium. I do not have any tattoos, neither does my friend. She just told me she guesses the size to be 3-4 inches and fully visible in a bikini.

As far as exerting control over the daughter’s body, she had the choice to not agree to this condition. This agreement was made before she submitted her application ED. The parents will not be raiding their retirement fund to pay for the school, but they will forgo travel, expensive dinners out and other niceties they are accustomed to. It was their choice to allow the daughter to apply ED and their right, in my opinion, to put whatever stipulations they wanted on that decision. Both parents agreed on the conditions. This child was well aware of what was expected of her and agreed to the conditions set forth by her parents. And it sounds like, at least today, she is willing to deal with the consequences. From what I understand, she is going to beg forgiveness of her parents and try to come up with a way to appease them and still attend her school. I really don’t know how this is going to play out. My friend has moved from freaked out, to angry at her daughter for her dishonesty. Should be an interesting couple of days at their house.

cptofthehouse · June 22, 2011, 4:12pm

I agree that forbidding a tattoo was stupid and stupider yet to hang a college payment to it, unless these parents truly feel this is important to them. And if they do, well, I don’t agree,but it 's their money. What bothers me is that the kid took these conditions and then just threw them in the air. To me, that is very sad. It shows an inability to keep any agreement. To boot, she was drunk when she did it. I think some time out makes sense, and the parents will probably suffer over this too and maybe learn not to make conditions that are painful to keep.

I don’t know the kid personally, but believe me, there are some kids that you cannot give that quarter. You just might have a chance dealing with them if you don’t waver in your stance, but they will push and move things until you have no standing, if you give them a chance. The only way I have seen the behavior curbed is to be a constant. It’s the right thing to do. You show that you keep your word even when it is painful and that you expect your D to keep hers.

I would be upset but in a rage or punitive if any of my kids got tattos, got drunk, did any number of things, but would likely let it go after letting them know how I felt .If there was a specific contingency attached to any of the actions, however, I would go by it.

Now this young lady went out and got drunk, under age and was drinking, so drunk she had a tattoo, no small thing that takes an instant done. Not cheap either. Suppose she goes out and gets drunk again and again, which I suspect she will do. What will it take to curb the behavior? You’re going to reward this with a $55K payment to a place where you have to trust her behavior when she is acting like this under your nose? I think some down time is in order, and not at that expensive university. What is so wrong with taking a gap year, when there are such unresolved issues? I really don’t look at it as a punishment but giving the girl some time to settle down and the parents some time to reassess what sort of terms they are going to have.

No it’s not the tattoo at all. It could have been anything that she had agreed not to do with the college as the dealing point and she did not keep her end of the deal.

Hunt · June 22, 2011, 4:16pm

So I suppose we can edit out the comments about about the daughter really wanting her mother to know about it. It may not be snooping, then, but it certainly sounds accidental. It’s too bad the mom didn’t say “Now I know what? I didn’t see anything.”

Marian · June 22, 2011, 4:18pm

Perhaps it’s worth noting that because the student applied ED, she cannot attend any other college in the coming academic year, even if some other college would still take her.

sunnyflorida · June 22, 2011, 4:18pm

We have dealt with a very intelligent but very rebellious kid. The rebellion came at 15/16. In going for counseling, the therapist warned not to get backed into a corner. He made it perfectly clear that if we “threatened” in a certain way, that we needed absolutely to be prepared to carry out those threats. We started negotiating differently and boy, did we get positive results.

Now this dad the OP has described will be backed into a corner. The D likely did it and figured she would “call” his bluff if the tat was “found out.”

My same rebellious D wanted a tattoo (or two :o) badly. At least I knew she would not be able to get one until she was 18, as I was not signing for one and neither was her dad. We had an open conversations about them, about the discrimination she might face from an older generation, one that was making admissions decisions for grad/professional schools and hiring. I made some suggestions. I suggested that any tattoos not show when dressed for work. And I mentioned that I would not pay for a wedding dress that showed a tattoo. Ever. Sure enough, unbeknownst to me she got one shortly after she turned 18. But it does not show unless she has a bathing suit on or very short shorts. It is not tiny. The artwork is gorgeous. And I HATE IT. But we had to choose our battles carefully.

She just finished her “freshman” year at college. Based on the AA she obtained prior to graduating HS, she has senior standing, is a TA, has a 3.95 GPA doing a pre-vet major. (Darn those A-'s). And while visiting a zoo, a wildlife preserve, a large cattle ranch, an exotic animal attraction, etc during her animal science class she was always quick to tell me that everyone “in the business” has tattoos and she will fit in just fine. She probably will. It does not make it any easier on me when I see it. It is what it is. We had to let that battle go. Had we done it any differently, she likely would NOT be in school at all.

cptofthehouse · June 22, 2011, 4:20pm

It’s not going to be interesting but sad. I agree with your assessment of the situation Fishymom.

I have one who was out of control and destructive to self, others including us. The only slender thread of being able to deal with him was to be a constant. It was difficult and it hurt, but it really was the only way he had somewhere to return. Otherwise to him, life and what he said and did was always negotiable. Maybe he would have gotten it even if we had just let things go as other parents did. For some, it did turn out just fine going that route but it seemed to me they had some rougher consequences. By standing firm as what 's right and keeping the emotion out of it, showing you love the child, but you meant what you said and you are sad that it turned out that way but navigating one’s way through those consequences, you can both learn. It’s harder that way. A lot easier to come to negotiate another solution, and another, and another. It rarely ends with one thing, but let me tell you, when a kid really gets it that a consequence is going to be real, and that mom will cry with him and be sad with him, but still the consequence is non negotiable, it changes the pictures a lot for them.

notrichenough · June 22, 2011, 4:29pm

I don’t see it so much as “I want to control your body because I own it”, I think it is more along the lines of “I am trying to protect you from making stupid decisions that cannot be easily undone that have long term ramifications you haven’t thought about because you’re only 18.”.

Let’s face it, although there is more acceptance of tattoos and piercings today than there was 20 (or even 10) years ago, if you show up for an interview with a Mike Tyson-like tribal inked on your face, or a row of 12 rings through your eyebrows and a chain going from your ear to your nose ring, you ain’t getting the job in most cases. And the older someone is, the less accepting they will be (in general).

It’s a ham-handed way of parenting, and probably not the best approach, but I’m sure some parents truly believe their kids are jeopardizing their future by tatting up. And as a result if you aren’t going to get that high-powered job, then a $50K/year school is a waste of money.

GTalum · June 22, 2011, 4:34pm

I thought that that I was emphasizing that the young lady was an adult. I think that capitalizing does serve to emphasize a particular point of a sentence. If you don’t mind, I will continue to use caps on very few occasions.

@failsafe21 excellent post.

Hunt · June 22, 2011, 4:35pm

I think it makes a big difference whether this is the tip of the iceberg or an anomaly in terms of rebelliousness. It sounds like it was probably an anomaly. It happened while she was drinking, is palpably stupid (confirming that it was done while impaired), and she took steps to hide it. I hope the parents will take this into account in deciding how to react.

But one point on whether they have to enforce the “deal” even if they don’t really want to: in Exodus, God tells Moses that he’s decided to wipe out the Israelites (due to some collective sin or other), and he will start over with Moses’ offspring as a new chosen people. Moses tells God that he can’t do that, because all the other nations would talk, and God changes his mind. If God can change his mind, parents can too.

aegrisomnia · June 22, 2011, 4:38pm

You say there are logical stipulations one could make… logical in what sense? Are they tautological, or do you have a set of premises which you are assuming people accept as axioms of your “college funding logic”?

Those might make sense to you, but who’s to say they are reasonable to anybody else?

Who ever said that control over your own body was sufficient? Why not more?

According to you. Your arguments certainly aren’t tautological, and anyone is free to reject the premises.

When your parents tell you to get good grades… aren’t they telling you that you have to go to class and study? How dare they place restrictions on what your body will be doing, where it will be, and when.

Would you pull college funding if you found your soon shooting heroin? Would that be “reasonable”?

This isn’t fundamentally about the young lady’s body. Her parents could have just as easily said that they would pull funding if she got arrested in high school. Would that be fair? What if it was for a Minor in Possession?

Again, the fact that the tattoo happens to be physically on her body seems to be an accident of the particular situation, not the fundamental issue.

When police tell me I can’t walk into a McDonald’s and demand all the burgers at gun point, they’re controlling my body. Why isn’t that wrong?

Without coming off as too much of a jerk, I don’t know whether this is more irrelevant or more naive.

cptofthehouse · June 22, 2011, 4:44pm

Of course, it was the young woman’s choice to get the tattoo. Yes, it is her body. But the money is her parents money and they have every right to put any condition other than illegal ones to give it someone, including to their adult daughter. They said no tattoos or no money. She said yes. She got tattoo. So what should be the conclusion here? I f she were abucted and held down and tattooed, that would be one thing but that was not the case. She was stupid and got the tattoo. So she can sit out the consequences and understand that when you agree to something and then break the agreement, the goodies that come with compliance are gone too.

UCDAlum82 · June 22, 2011, 4:54pm

I can certainly see parents pulling money over underaged drinking. Over a tattoo, not so much.

The young lady had every right to get the tattoo, but she will have to live with the consequences of that.

The parents have every right to pull the money. And then they will live with the consequences of that.

If they lose their only child over it, well, they probably should have seen that coming.

And I could see the mother rethinking the hard line on the chance that is how it would play out.

silverlady · June 22, 2011, 5:09pm

4 of our nieces are being raised by their maternal grandmother for reasons too long to explain. The oldest desperately wanted tattoos on both arms. Her grandmother said no, and said that she would stop supporting her during college if she got them. The niece got them, so the grandmother stopped paying for college. Niece was furious, went to Atlanta to live with a friend who “understood” her, and then 2 weeks later called her mother to come bring her home. (Mom is finally getting her act together after being an alcoholic since she was 13). Everyone told niece she was stupid to get the tattoos, and now she agrees she should have waited until she had graduated.

I think grandmother was right to follow through on her threat because of the 3 younger children. If grandma let it go, the younger ones could throw it back in her face.

If someone said to me “Hey, I will give you $150,000+ if you don’t get a tattoo for the next 4 years”, I would jump at the chance. And, I would understand if I got a tattoo that I would lose that money.

I think what bothers me about this girl is that she did it even before college started. If she were a senior, I might have a bit of sympathy for her. But if she were my daughter, I would certainly reassess my spending that kind of money for her to go to an expensive private school. The parents are not denying her a college education. They are just readjusting their financial priorities in light of the maturity level of their daughter.

ellemenope · June 22, 2011, 5:10pm

Sorry, I’m still hung up on a 3-4 inch tattoo with her boyfriend’s initial in it…Yeesh! Talk about dumb. Those friends that she went with on the birthday celebration are certainly no friends of hers…especially if they knew of the tattoo ban.

We don’t have a No Tattoo requirement, but have told the kids that we think it’s a dumb idea that they will more likely than not regret in the future. So far, they don’t seem interested.

If I were a parent, it would certainly give me pause.

There is so much trouble that a drunk, immature girl can get into at college–some of it much more life altering than a dumb tattoo–maybe she isn’t ready to go too far from home.

pugmadkate · June 22, 2011, 5:41pm

She did something stupid, that doesn’t mean her parents need to do something equally thoughtless. Isn’t she the same girl that did the work and earned her way into this college?

If I really thought my husband would yank college funding, I would not tell him. Of course, I’m not married to someone who would over-react to such an absurd degree.

warbrain · June 22, 2011, 5:56pm

The worst part is that they already broke up!

Daughter hid tattoo from parents

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